Different variations of Wildebeest

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14 March 2010, 01:18

AKsheephunter

Different variations of Wildebeest

Having taken a blue and black wildebeest on a prior hunt to S. Africa, my question is how many different color variations of the Blue wildebeest are there? and what areas are they found? post a pic if you have one, thanks.

14 March 2010, 01:55

Bill C

There are 5 categories of huntable wildebeest, listed here w/some additional info:

http://www.wild-about-you.com/AfricaGame.htm

Basically, of the ones you do not have, you will find huntable numbers:

- Cooksen in Luangwa Valley (Zambia)
- White Bearded in Masailand (Tanzania)
- Nyasa in Selous (Tanzania)

I've shot all but the Cooksen's as the concession that I hunted (Lower Lupande) did not have huntable numbers. My White Bearded is still at the taxidermist, as they look very similar to the others (excluding the Black, which are just plain cool) and real estate on the walls is tight.

14 March 2010, 01:59

MARK H. YOUNG

AK,

There is a blue, black, white bearded, Nyasa and Cookson's. The black is the only one that looks remarkably different than the others.

Mark

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14 March 2010, 03:12

D. Nelson

When we hunted with Infinito Safaris last year outside of Groblersdol, SA, they took us by a breeding farm that was trying to do some "designer" breeding. We saw a golden wildebeest and black impala. I have them on video, but no print photos. Maybe Charl or Frederik have photos they can post. Seemed like the rancher was trying to come up with something he could sell at specialty prices.

Regards, D. Nelson

14 March 2010, 04:06

L. David Keith

I can't wait until they brew Fire-Tiger, Crawfish and Coachdog Wildebeest. Those will make interesting rugs

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14 March 2010, 04:59

AKsheephunter

Thanks for the info. guys...I guess the one I saw was some where on here was one that was very light colored, it was perhaps the white bearded, but way lighter than the ones in the pic from above.

I was surprized of the variety of duikers, wow! there's some beauties in there...really like that zebra duiker...thanks for the post!

14 March 2010, 20:37

billrquimby

There are two species of wildebeest:
Black (Connochaetes gnou)
Common or brindled (Connochaetes taurinus).

Five subspecies of the common wildebeest have been recognized:
Blue (C.t. taurinus)
Nyasa (C.t. johnstoni)
Cookson (C.t. cooksoni)
Western white-bearded (C.t. mearnsi)
Eastern white-bearded (C.t. albojubatus)

SCI combines the two white-bearded wildebeests in a single category.

Bill Quimby

14 March 2010, 20:53

retreever

Here is a Nyasa from East Africa.. I love the color.

Mike

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14 March 2010, 22:03

shakari

Mike,

I think you'll find that technically speaking, that's probably a hybrid. A full blooded nyasaland wildebeest has a very definite white bar across it's snout.

I've got some pics somewhere but am having trouble finding the damn things..... if I can track them down, I'll post a pic.

14 March 2010, 22:27

shakari

Here you go buddy:

FWIW, I'd say the hybrids are rarer than any of 'em.

14 March 2010, 22:33

Blacktailer

And one more in color

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14 March 2010, 22:39

shakari

Yeah, sorry about the B&W...... I lost about 3000 images a while ago and only had that B&W one left.

15 March 2010, 00:46

shakari

Here's another hybrid:

16 March 2010, 01:51

donner

What about this one then!

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16 March 2010, 22:35

fairgame

quote:
Originally posted by retreever:
Here is a Nyasa from East Africa.. I love the color.

Mike

That is quite remarkable as it is almost identical to the Cookson's here in Zambia, which often bears the white dots on either side of the nose but not the full band as Shakari has indicated.

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16 March 2010, 22:39

fairgame

quote:
Originally posted by shakari:
Here you go buddy:

FWIW, I'd say the hybrids are rarer than any of 'em.

Please confirm which one of the three is hybrid?

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16 March 2010, 23:00

shakari

The purebred ones have the solid white bar across the snout. When they have anything from a broken white bar to scattered white hair in a similar area they're crossbreeds...... but of course, if we got technical about it, I guess the only way to be 100% sure would be to DNA test them.

The animal in the pic I posted with the really blue sky and white cloud with the big chap giving the thumbs up had more white than shows in the pic...... but it ain't a great pic!

Have you got a pic of a Cookson's you can post?

16 March 2010, 23:27

fairgame

quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
quote:
Originally posted by shakari:
Here you go buddy:

FWIW, I'd say the hybrids are rarer than any of 'em.

Please confirm which one of the three is hybrid?

Confirm the the fellow on the right is bearded?

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16 March 2010, 23:39

shakari

Ah sorry..... I absolutely confirm the fellow on the right is actually a fine example of short, ugly, bearded bastard!

16 March 2010, 23:51

505 gibbs

Donner, that "wildebeast" is a result of recent efforts in "designer" breedings to mix a hereford bull with a blue wildebeast cow. The marbling in the meat is much more desireable and they are easier to harvest because they do not run around like they have bees in their heads. Last I heard, one of these "heredebeasts" was going for around $8k.

17 March 2010, 00:25

fairgame

quote:
Originally posted by shakari:
The purebred ones have the solid white bar across the snout. When they have anything from a broken white bar to scattered white hair in a similar area they're crossbreeds...... but of course, if we got technical about it, I guess the only way to be 100% sure would be to DNA test them.

The animal in the pic I posted with the really blue sky and white cloud with the big chap giving the thumbs up had more white than shows in the pic...... but it ain't a great pic!

Have you got a pic of a Cookson's you can post?

If you have a copy of the Safari press 2008 Safari Guide you will will find one of my photos there but it does not show the whole animal nor the colouration which is very similar. One could almost assume that the Cookson's is then a hybrid of the Nyasaland and Blue?

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17 March 2010, 00:46

shakari

Andrew,

I'm not a vet or a scientist and probably Lane or Oryxhunter would be able to give a more informed opinion but I'm pretty damn sure you'll find it's a separate subspecies entirely rather than a crossbreed. Certainly the record books list it as a separate sub species.

As I understand it, most crossbreeds are unable to breed further and so the line will always stop at the first generation.... not again, Lane and/or oryxhunter would be considerably better qualified to comment than I am.

I always reckon the bloody wildebeests are the most confusing of all the animals to work out and the black one is the biggest pain in the arse of all. You could give the same skull and horns to 10 different measurers and would probably get 10 different measurements!

17 March 2010, 03:22

Kamo Gari

quote:
Originally posted by retreever:
Here is a Nyasa from East Africa.. I love the color.

Mike

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17 March 2010, 03:36

L. David Keith

I agree KG, the color of Mike's Wildebeest is outstanding.

17 March 2010, 03:38

D. Nelson

Here is the Cookson Wildebeest I shot last August in Zambia.

Best regards, D. Nelson

17 March 2010, 04:33

Nzou

Shakari is right, a DNA test is always going to tell give you the clear picture, but it is not always practical in the field. Sub-species are not yet separate species and can interbreed, although they are usually separated by some sort of barrier, be it geographical or whatever, but they are diverging to become separate species.

You will probably find at the boundaries of these different wildebeest species distributions there would be a fair number of hybrids, but in the centre of their distributions, you will probably start to find more definate signs of a particular species eg the white moustache of the Nyasa. etc.

17 March 2010, 10:36

Futrdoc

The line between species used to be defined by the inability to interbreed and produce fertile offspring, but some similar species CAN do this, so there's some ambiguity there. If I can get the whole story I'll post it here. Often the only barrier to mating is geographic isolation from the other, and at the borders between similar species, that barrier is no longer present.

Andy

17 March 2010, 20:36

J.R.Jackson

quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
quote:
Originally posted by shakari:
Here you go buddy:

FWIW, I'd say the hybrids are rarer than any of 'em.

Please confirm which one of the three is hybrid?

Confirm the the fellow on the right is bearded?

Is that Mark Martin from NASCAR?

17 March 2010, 20:45

shakari

I'm sure he'll be very flattered to read that comment but he's Peter Lang from Wales, a brilliant shot and hunter, funny as hell, allround clever bugger and a very good friend.