Reality of Buff Hunting?????

22 May 2002, 09:14

<Terry P>

Well, looks like I can still post.

biff, there are quite a few guys here that have hunted buffalo more than I have but I'll add in my personal experiences.

First of all, I will ever underestimate the cape buffalo. This is dangerous game hunting at it's best. These buffalo wake up pissed off every morning and it gets worse as the day goes along.
We hunted them in Masai Land and it was very dry. They had to come to the water holes late at night. Sometimes they would water every other night.
The Masai rock them away from the water, then they get tracked by lions, then here we are tracking them.
Our PH had some clients with him on a hunt the year before and was tracking a bull one morning and it finally got pissed. It waited , hiding behind some thorn bush, and circled and charged coming in from the side. He stopped it at 9 paces with a 500NE. This buffalo was not wounded...just mad.
They say not to run (you can't run through thorn bush anyway) but get on the ground if things get out of control. One of the trackers we had with us, dove to the ground then grabbed the hind leg of a wounded bull as it ran over him and hung on for dear life until it was killed. This was on a previous hunt.
Our outfitters son was horned in the ass and had to be air lifted out to Kenya. He is fine now. This happened about 3 years ago.

We had a bull waiting for us in the thick stuff but our tracker spotted him. He was about 30 yards away from us, in real thick bush, and had stopped to see what was tracking him. Finally, (the tracker could barely see him) he lost his nerve and finally took off after he knew we discovered him. Would he have charged? Who knows..maybe not but then again.....

There were no charges on my hunt but buffalo hunting can be hazardous, to say the least, and I'll always have a great respect for them.

Regards,
Terry

22 May 2002, 10:24

Wendell Reich

Very few Buff hunts end in a charge. If a Buff charges, usually it is because someone screwed up pretty bad. It can happen otherwise, but it is extremely rare.

The excitement is akin to walking a tightrope...if everything is done well, no problem, if you screw up, well now it gets very interesting!

The potential always exists for a dangerous situation, that is why we crave it so much.

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Wendell Reich

Hunter's Quest International
wendell@huntersquest.com

22 May 2002, 11:34

Atkinson

Ya never know!!! and if you become complacent then Murphy will certainly sneak up and place a horn in your groin.

Most PH's have been tossed if they been around awhile.

I had a very experienced PH tell me he expects a charge out of every 25 to 50 bulls shot and my experience seems to add some credibility to that number based on the number of hunters I send on Buffalo hunts each year.

Some years or worse than others and a lot depends on how hard the buffalo are hunted in a certain area...If they have been plumb hammered they will get pretty damned aggressive in a hurry and the odds of a charge really sky rocket.

Just some observations and I keep track and records of such things. It's an interresting past time for someone in my business..I had 3 charges last year on clients and all ended up clients 3, Buffalo 0....

My good friend and PH. Johan Calitz got injured severly last year by a Buffalo and if it can happen to him then were all plumb venerable..

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

22 May 2002, 12:11

MacD37

Biff, you may hunt buffalo every year for the rest of your life and not experience a charge, and you might get a double charge on the first hunt. That unpredictablity, is why they call Cape Buffalo dangerous game!

Many things can have an effect on the attitude of a given Buffalo. Lions, poachers, and heavy hunting of the herds has a great effect. The weather, such as drought, makeing just coming to a Pan, for a drink, a big deal, with so many animals forced into close contact. Buffalo seem to be more agressive just before sundown, and less agressive at 2:00 PM in heat. The bush conditions have a great effect on buffalo, requireing getting very close, to get a look at horns, sometimes jumping the bulls two or three times, before you get that CLOSE shot! Some Bulls simply do not like humans, and are not shy about letting you know that fact.

The one thing that is sure,is:

"No Cape Buffalo ever charged without provocation, but the buffalo decides what constitutes provocation"!

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..Mac >>>===(x)===>
also DUGABOY1
DUGABOY DESIGNS
Collector/trader of fine double rifles, and African wildlife art

22 May 2002, 12:21

Nickudu

Nice post, Ray. Another variable in the equation is one never knows if there's a previously injured bull around who's in no mood for company and may come from nowhere, without warning. I've also seen blown followups, where the wounded bull was thought by all to have run off with the herd. With eyes intent on spotting a straggler ahead, it's not so very hard to walk right by a downed bull, mere yards to one side. It happened to me once and only the fact that he was very near death had averted an incident.

22 May 2002, 13:09

Wendell Reich

quote:
Originally posted by MacD37:
The one thing that is sure,is:
"No Cape Buffalo ever charged without provocation, but the buffalo decides what constitutes provocation"!

Yup.

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Wendell Reich

Hunter's Quest International
wendell@huntersquest.com

22 May 2002, 13:30

Ku-dude

Obviously, not all buffalo hunts end with a charge. Thank goodness. I have only hunted buffalo once, but it was enough to convince me that I don't want to experience your fantasy. It is a wonderful Walter Mitty day dream, but in reality these are really large animals that when enraged, are capable of inflicting terrible damage.

I came home and had a larger gun made. And, I finished my buffalo with one shot and very uneventfully. Thank goodness. Ku-dude

22 May 2002, 14:32

<Bad Bill>

I've only hunted buff once and maybe I'm dumb but, while I respect them, I'm not afraid of them. Now lion and leopard are another story.

The PH I hunted with is very experienced and had never had a problem while hunting but he did get hammered pretty good checking an injured animal on his property. One of his workers reported that one of the buff on his large ranch was pretty badly injured so him and his fiancee went out to take a look. As they drove into the area the bull was supposed to be in they saw it in the open 150-200 yards away...he parked the truck behind some bushes and got out..taking his binocs but leaving his big Gibbs in the truck. He walked up behind some trees (about 50 yards) to get a better look when all of a sudden a buff charged him from about 5 yards...hooked him in the thigh and tossed him into some low branches and was waiting for him to come down when the fiancee walked up and settled the issue (5'6" and maybe 120 lbs and drop-dead gorgeous)...he spent several weeks in the hospital and made a full recovery. Turns out the buff that charged him was the one who put the hurt on the other bull...he was still pissed off when my friend drove up and tried to take it out on him. I guess it is the one's you don't see that get you.

22 May 2002, 15:27

Atkinson

Sometimes when you shoot a bull in a Bachlor group, one of the group will charge you for shooting his pal, He will actually hunt you and charge, not all that uncommon, fortunately many of these assaults are half hearted, but they will make you pucker. Mac made a good point, and that is Lions will make buffalo cranky..

Buffalo bulls wake up each morning fully pissed off and their attitude degenerates from that point on as the day progresses and that's why they are more aggressive in the evenings.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

22 May 2002, 17:44

RIP

Great thread! Great comments from all.

Terry P,

I especially enjoyed your second post above, but the first got me to wondering in what capacity Capstick hunted with you. As PH or what, if you would be so kind?

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RAB

22 May 2002, 18:49

Rusty Gunn

Just curious, for sake of whatever it's worth...
Who pays for the extra bull, if it charges and is killed?

To those who have hunted both buffalo and griz, can they be compared to the other, whilest in the thick stuff? Perhaps wounded and ready to charge? ~~~Suluuq

22 May 2002, 19:26

DB Bill

Rusty....no comparison for me as I've hunted both. The grizzly is a meat eater and the buff isn't. Neither would be a bundle of joy in tight cover but given the choice I would rather take on the buff.

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DB Bill aka Bad Bill aka Bill George

22 May 2002, 22:35

Saeed

biff,

Welcome to the forum.

I have read somewhere that you are likely to get charged 10% of the times.

Obviously, the buffalo I have hunted never read this, as I have shot probably over 80, and have not gotten charged yet.

To me, the best way to hunt buffalo is to go to a waterhole in the morning, find some tracks, and follow them. You might find them after one or two hours, and manage to sneak close and shoot one.

But, more likely, they might see or smell you, and take off. Now the real fun starts, as they know you are after them, and will be keeping an eye out for you.

This runing and stopping chase might take all day, and you might or might not be able to get a shot at them.

When a chance at a shot comes, it will be through some thick bush, and you have to be very quick and place your shot accurately.

If not, and you wound one, you might have to follow him till dark, then go back to camp in a rather miserable state.

You have to wake up before the crack of dawn, and drive back to where you have left the tracks, and start all over again.

I can recall 3 times where we might have been charged.

We followed 4 bulls, and wanted to shoot 3 of them.

We saw them about an hour later in very thick bush. I shot one and they all took off. We ran after them, and a few yards further we saw them again.

Apparently, the one I have shot was lying down - but I could not see him! Another one was standing directly behind him, this one I could see.

Roy, my PH, was kneeling down to get a better view of the wounded buffalo. He told me to shoot it, and I asked him if he was sure it was the wounded one.

He said it was, so I shot the one I was looking at - the one standing, which was not wounded!

At the shot, the one I shot took off, and I was sure he would not go very far, as I knew my shot was good.

I turned around to talk to Roy and Alan, his son, who was taking a video of all this.

Suddenly, Alan shouted "Watch out! He is coming!"

The bull that was lying down heard us, and got up - I think - to charge. But he could not see us because of the bush. I shot him in the head and he dropped dead.

We found the second one dead a few yards further, and the other two were with him. I shot one of them, which ran a few yards and dropped.

The second time was when I shot a bull from below and managed to hit him too low in the chest.

He ran off with a few other bulls. I fired two shots at him - using solids - while he was running about 200 yards away, hitting him both times, but he never slowed down.

He went down a valley and then up the other side, and lay down.

We approached him from behind, and as we got to about 20 yards and I was about to shoot him again, he looked at us and tried to get up. One more shot put an end to him.

The third time was last year.

My late friend Gerhard shot a bull out of four. I shot one and he dropped. I shot another one, and dropped him too, but he soon got up and ran off, Another shot, and he ran a few yards and dropped. I got closer to the last one and shot him too. He ran to our left, changed direction and I think he was chartging but did not see us yet. I fired at him from 12 yards and hit him in the head, which put an end to him.

My friend Roy Vincent has been a PH for over 30 years, and has only been charged once by an old cow which was not wounded, but was in very poor condition.

Now, if you ask Mark Sullivan, he might tell you he gets charge twice by every buffalo he hunts.

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23 May 2002, 01:35

<Terry P>

Daggaron,
I said: " My thoughts ran back to the stories Peter Capstick told when we were hunting in Tanzania. "

I should have said: "My thoughts ran back to the stories Peter Capstick told when my partner and I were hunting Tanzania."

I never hunted with Peter or knew him. I don't seem to be very literate sometimes.
Terry

23 May 2002, 03:23

<biff>

Saeed, Thanks for the welcome, I have been a lurker here for quite a while now just never really posted much. I think I may be a little overwhelmed by the sheer knowledge here. But Great stories please keep em coming, all I can do right now is live vicariously through the stories of others till I can get to Africa :-) gabe

23 May 2002, 04:20

<Bad Bill>

Some ancedotes from my buff hunt....#1 we were driving down the road and we saw tracks where the buff had gone for water but none coming back. We had one of the trackers drive the truck down the road while we got out and set up an ambush about 50 yards into the bush. After a fairly short wait (it still wasn't full light) buff starting moving past us...some quite close. We had several bulls dead-to-rights but none were big enough this early in the hunt. Very exciting. #2) we had just finished hanging a leopard bait when the tracker, up in the tree, saw a herd of buff in the distance so off we went on foot. It was fairly late in the day when we caught up with them..there was a good bull in the herd but we couldn't get closer than about 100 yards and the PH was reluctant to get involved this late in the day, especially with a longish shot. #3) we were checking baits early in the morning when we came across 2 sets of tracks leaving water. We parked the truck and followed them for about an hour before they made a 90 degree turn to the left into some heavier cover. We had gone about 50 or 60 yards when the cover opened up a bit and just as I started to climb a small (about 2' high) mound one of the trackers pointed to a shiny black spot which turned out to be a buffalo horn...about 15 yards in front of me. When he clicked his fingers to get the attention of the PH the bull stood up and looked at us...about 10 seconds later another bull stood up between us the the first bull....I would give a $1000 for a photo of us taken from behind the buff. The horns were too small and they were too close to start anything! After what seemed like hours but was probably only a minute or two they tossed their heads and began to move off, stopping to look back several times. This was the first time I got that famous buffalo look. #3) We were going to check an area where we had seen some sable tracks late the previous day when we saw where a herd of buff had just crossed the road and as we stopped to check them out the tracker in back said he had just seen several go into cover about 200 yards away. Same routine..park the truck...gather the gear and off we go. We got downwind and played leap frog with this herd for several hours as we tried to get ahead of them in a position to look the herd over for a good bull and to get into position for a shot. There was a good bull in the herd but he was always on the wrong side or else we couldn't get a good shot. After about 3 or 4 of these "wait to they go buy and then run like hell to get in front again" episodes I got lucky. A younger bull was trying to fool around with a cow near the end of the herd when he drew the attention of the bull we liked. The big boy came right through the herd which caused the smaller bull to quickly back off...the good part was the cow in question was only about 50 yards away and when the bull rousted her to catch the herd he presented a perfect front-quartering shot. My 300gr Nosler hit him where the neck joins the body and he dropped at the shot...40" plus a little.

Two things to remember...(1) every exposure to buff is different and (2)females will get you in trouble every time!

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AKA DB Bill

23 May 2002, 04:22

DB Bill

Ooops! How did Bad Bill come back?

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DB Bill aka Bad Bill aka Bill George

23 May 2002, 04:40

<Jhon>

Biff, I am a newbee on this forum,but I have been privileged to have hunted the Cape Buff, Being an australian I had the same regard for them as I had for the water buff. Knock the buggers down with a 303.

from the back of a Landy is more fun. I have know my african mate Frank for many years and PH does not stand for proffesional hunter it stands for Piss Head. The night before the hunt, I had arrived some eight hours prior, we sank a bottle of Glen Fiddich. Bad Move... Jet Lag and Al K Hol,4oclock start, headache,and having been bull '''ed to by a bloody expert about what to expect had me fairly shifty. To cut a long story short we managed to find two old bulls and I hoisted my trusty No1,had a look through the old swarofski and belted a 416 Barnes though the biggest ones shoulder. No! the classic aussie gut shot. Bugger. I noticed that the trusty PH had gone a whiter shade of pale. You drunken old dick head says he. I responded with the correct riposte under the circumstances. Get Stuffed, it was your bloody whisky. The two buff immediatly decamped into the thorn bush. Now a bird in the bush might be ok but two buff, one wounded, lots of nice bubbly red blood spoor, bugger. Anyhow the unwounded one was very protective of the wounded one. It made a charge but it was bluff. Managed to get a couple more into mine before it made a charge through the thorne bush. I reckon that you could have heard my sphincter snapping shut a 100 yards away. Frank got a 375 into it, from a prone possition I might add, and I managed to get it through the skull. I reckon the old bugger was carrying about 2000gns of Barns Xs and 600gns of Woodlieghs before he karked it. I asked Frank why he was lying on the ground, he pointed out that the Buffs charge the mug whose standing up.
On getting back to Oz I built a 585 Nyati. I might take it up to the territory and try it out on red scrub bulls before I get to Africa again. They can be mean big buggers when they want to be.
My only advice is dont have a hangover the day you hunt and be sure you place the shot correctly, dont make a galah out of yourself like I did.
Jhon

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Jhon

23 May 2002, 05:09

Sheister

Jhon, great story. I guess alcohol doesn't make one a better shot?

Saeed, I've seen the video of the Buff that charged you in that last sequence but in the tape you can't tell it is only 12 yards. I got the feeling watching the video that if that bugger had seen you, he would gotten downright serious. As it was it seemed like he was zeroing in on your location, just hoping to stomp something. Isn't that the one you put one through his boss? Can't wait for this year's video.
Hope to hunt Buff for the first time in a year or two- Sheister

23 May 2002, 06:13

konst#1

@ SAEED,
....
"Now, if you ask Mark Sullivan, he might tell you he gets charge twice by every buffalo he hunts."
...
I heared a little story about M.S.,of my gunsmith -who build me my safari rifle-. He told me that Mr PH M. Sullivan provocates the buffï¿½s for a charge, by shoot them first through the stomage to make them angree,...and then waits for the charge of the buff, to knock himm out with his 600NE with a frontal brain shot!
On the one hand I donï¿½t now if this little story is truth, but on the other hand... i donï¿½t have any doubt to believe my gunsmithï¿½s story.

cheers
konst#1

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My old User Name "konst" has been lost , on 20/5/02, after a ???????

23 May 2002, 06:29

Saeed

Sheister,

Yes sir that is the one.

We are only hunting plains game in South Africa, no buffalo I am afraid.

I have loaded 5 types of bullets to try how they perform on game animals.

Nosler Partition, Nosler Ballistic Tip, Swift A-Frame, Trophy Bonded Bear Claws and, of course Sierra Match Kings

konst#1,

I am not sure what MS does to those buffalo, but, whatever it is, it cannot be kosher.

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www.accuratereloading.com

23 May 2002, 07:01

Sheister

Saeed,

Have a great hunt with Ntshonalanga. I'm sure Deon and Peter will work their buns off for you and you'll have a great time. They have some really wonderful properties to hunt and a few new ones I want to try on my next trip.
I'll be looking forward to seeing the results of your bullet testing.- Sheister

23 May 2002, 08:06

Atkinson

I know exactly how MS does it but I'm not going there, because it causes too much excitment from his advocates and I'm not really interrested in a confrontation. He used one of my favorite trackers on one ocassion, who in turn told me some interresting stuff. Not saying if it was good or bad...

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

23 May 2002, 13:38

<Jhon>

quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
I know exactly how MS does it but I'm not going there, because it causes too much excitment from his advocates and I'm not really interrested in a confrontation. He used one of my favorite trackers on one ocassion, who in turn told me some interresting stuff. Not saying if it was good or bad...
Who is this MS you talk about, Jhon

23 May 2002, 13:51

DB Bill

MS is Mark Sullivan a well-known and controversal PH who also happens to be the designer of the world famous GameKing bullet.

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DB Bill aka Bad Bill aka Bill George

[This message has been edited by DB Bill (edited 05-23-2002).]

23 May 2002, 16:40

Rusty Gunn

I've seen three of MS videos, and havn't seen him shoot any buff in the stomach, to provoke a charge.
Please point it out, in which video, as I've yet to buy the others. ~~~Suluuq

24 May 2002, 09:58

konst#1

hey Rusty
I canï¿½t tell you if this can be seen in a video, what i wrote above is just what my gunsmith told me.
I donï¿½t know if itï¿½s the truth, but as i heared he has a lot of charging buffs,...something must had happened to make these buffs charging.....

cheers
konst#1

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My old User Name "konst" has been lost , on 20/5/02, after a ???????

24 May 2002, 02:08

<Peter>

Now come on Ray, you are not going to tease us like that are you?
peter.

24 May 2002, 06:12

<JHook>

How come hard cast bullets arent used more for hunting Buff ? What with their penetration reputation, and, with the use of Med velocity Big-Bores ?

Thanx............J

24 May 2002, 06:30

Atkinson

Jhon,
That was one funny story, maybe my favorite to date on any forum..I can picture the whole thing, Lord, I wish I'd been on that one...

Peter,
I won't go there, it's been hammered to many times and it's boring, makes allies or enemies and all hell breaks loose. This is not my confrontational week.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

24 May 2002, 08:38

rick3foxes

OK, OK, Ray.

I guess we can stifle our curiosity until Monday....

24 May 2002, 10:00

<Peter>

(Ray said)"I won't go there, it's been hammered to many times and it's boring, makes allies or enemies and all hell breaks loose. This is not my confrontational week."

Hey Guys, I think that Ray is REALLY SICK. The above quote is certainly not the Ray we know and love so well. Can anyone verify his condition and tell us if we should send flowers? I want first dibs on "sweet thang" if ol' Ray really is on his way to the happy hunting ground.
Peter.

24 May 2002, 11:15

Atkinson

Oh I'm just despondent over the post on the ancient ones, it took the startch out of me sails..

I need to get to bed now it's past 6:00 PM, I've forgotten where I put my Viagra and what its for, headaches I think, now where is the friggen bedroom, man I met a lot of new folks today who say they have known me for years, poor dumb bastards, I ain't never seen'em before, who took my shoestrings outa my slippers, geez its hard to find good help these days.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

24 May 2002, 13:24

<Jhon>

quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
Jhon,
That was one funny story, maybe my favorite to date on any forum..I can picture the whole thing, Lord, I wish I'd been on that one...
Peter,
I won't go there, it's been hammered to many times and it's boring, makes allies or enemies and all hell breaks loose. This is not my confrontational week.

24 May 2002, 13:47

<Jhon>

quote:
Originally posted by Jhon:

Ray. That particular african sojourn was initially for two weeks,but I was having so much fun I stayed for another 8 weeks. The only problem is fitting 15 or sixteen heads in my gun room. I have just been down in south Oz with other members of the geriatric hunting club and bagged a very nice Rusa. The cheese and kisses is going to be pissed when I try to sneak the bloody head in. With a bit of luck I will get back to Africa next year. Until then my assortment of odd heavy guns will consigned to the safe, and I will have to make do shooting ferals with my old 270. I am trying to con my son into going buff hunting with me in south africa. He went up to the territory a few months ago, wanted to try my 45/120 shilo sharps out on water buffs and scrubbers. He reckons he drilled one through the chest with a 500 solid and it ended up as a reverse texas heart shot. and it pissed of into the mulga. Went for about 400yd and expired. Bugger this he thought and grabbed the old 35 whelen. The next two where one shot kills. Woodlieghs.
Did I cop some flak over my big bloody useless heavy calibre guns from him. But as I told him, He is just a dickhead and takes after his mother. Bah bloody humbug, Jhon