.375 H&H VELOCITY ON GAME

20 March 2008, 02:12

Bwana Nderobo

The 375 Flanged operates at 100-150 fps slower than the Belted version, and it's killed buffalo for almost 100 years. Here's my opinion: Find the load that's the most accurate in your rifle, and worry about velocity second. A bullet in the right place at any speed is worth much more than two in the wrong place! Good Hunting!!BN

20 March 2008, 02:24

Will

And the 375 H&H has killed more buffalo than the Flanged version ever dreamed of.

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20 March 2008, 02:55

tradewinds

quote:
Originally posted by jabali:
I WANT TO KNOW IF ITS TRUE THAT .375 H&H PERFORM BEST ON BUFFALO WHEN DOWNLOADING THE CARTRIDGE TO 2400-2500 FPS USING SOFT POINT BULLETS. ANYBODY HAVE TRY THIS?

Isnt that factory Velocities with 300 gr. ?

20 March 2008, 03:16

buckeyeshooter

Sounds like the same 'penetration story' the 45/70 guys have dreamed up!! bsflag

20 March 2008, 05:13

Michael Robinson

With good bullets, I believe that velocity and penetration are directly proportional.

The 2,400 fps rule is a canard nowadays, unless applied only to lesser projectiles. IMHO, of course.

20 March 2008, 08:03

jdollar

quote:
Originally posted by tradewinds:
quote:
Originally posted by jabali:
I WANT TO KNOW IF ITS TRUE THAT .375 H&H PERFORM BEST ON BUFFALO WHEN DOWNLOADING THE CARTRIDGE TO 2400-2500 FPS USING SOFT POINT BULLETS. ANYBODY HAVE TRY THIS?

Isnt that factory Velocities with 300 gr. ?

yes it is!!

20 March 2008, 08:33

chuck375

If you're trying to keep velocity down a bit, shooting the 350g Woodleigh bullets (soft points and solids) at 2300 to 2400 fps might be the ticket. Norma sells them loaded in their PH brand ammo.

Chuck

20 March 2008, 08:39

Wooly ESS

quote:
Originally posted by tradewinds:
quote:
Originally posted by jabali:
I WANT TO KNOW IF ITS TRUE THAT .375 H&H PERFORM BEST ON BUFFALO WHEN DOWNLOADING THE CARTRIDGE TO 2400-2500 FPS USING SOFT POINT BULLETS. ANYBODY HAVE TRY THIS?

Isnt that factory Velocities with 300 gr. ?

Remington lists the muzzle velocity of their 300gr Swift A-Frame loading at 2530'/s. So, technically, 2400-2500 '/s is downloaded from factory velocities. Is it enough to make a difference? Those more knowledgeable than I can answer that question.

20 March 2008, 11:39

ozhunter

I have seen deformed 375 solids that were traveling faster than 2500fps and have only seen great performance from the slower heavier bullets.
I personally prefer my 9.3s and 375 to travel between 2200 to 2450fps.

20 March 2008, 12:13

Safari-Hunt

Can I add some

I love my 375 and load it to run with 270gr bullets at around 2550fps now my 303 struggles to go to 2400 fps with 174 gr bullets.

But the best part is that if I shoot something with my 303 most of the times it drops on the spot body vital shots. With the 375 also body vital shots it seems that they go a bit further before dropping.

So isnt there something to lower velocity ?
I know we have super bullets now to use and of course when trophy hunting you are not concerned with meat waste and the flatter the trajectory the better for you. But I find that with lower velocity rilfes the game seems to drop easier on the spot. Just my limited experiences I found to over 150 animals shot with a 303 not all my own but close and the rest seen of game dropped by clients rifles which is quite a big number as well over 150.

So excluding the old theory of using slow and heavy bullets isnt there something more to lower speed and killing power ?

Ouch This is gonna hurt ! hammering

20 March 2008, 15:41

Will

quote:
Originally posted by Safari-Hunt:
Can I add some I love my 375 and load it to run with 270gr bullets at around 2550fps now my 303 struggles to go to 2400 fps with 174 gr bullets.

But the best part is that if I shoot something with my 303 most of the times it drops on the spot body vital shots. With the 375 also body vital shots it seems that they go a bit further before dropping.

So isnt there something to lower velocity ?
I know we have super bullets now to use and of course when trophy hunting you are not concerned with meat waste and the flatter the trajectory the better for you. But I find that with lower velocity rilfes the game seems to drop easier on the spot. Just my limited experiences I found to over 150 animals shot with a 303 not all my own but close and the rest seen of game dropped by clients rifles which is quite a big number as well over 150.

So excluding the old theory of using slow and heavy bullets isnt there something more to lower speed and killing power ?

Ouch This is gonna hurt !

I would think that you might be comparing apples and oranges. You might have an argument if comparing the same bullets.

When I have used Nosler 300 gr. Partitions on the light stuff (Zebra and down) they went down dead. But if you use more heavily constructed bullets, like the Swift A-Frame, the critters do have more of a tendency to take off, even if only momentarily. Like the difference between, sort of, softs and solids.

You are probably seeing the difference between bullet constructions rather than velocities. Maybe?

20 March 2008, 19:13

Terry Blauwkamp

quote:
Originally posted by jabali:
I WANT TO KNOW IF ITS TRUE THAT .375 H&H PERFORM BEST ON BUFFALO WHEN DOWNLOADING THE CARTRIDGE TO 2400-2500 FPS USING SOFT POINT BULLETS. ANYBODY HAVE TRY THIS?

"Down Loading"? You will seldom get over 2500 anyway, so go for it as is. Downloading that big capacity case will ( could) be a problem.

20 March 2008, 21:16

Russ Gould

I can tell you that using my Valmet 375/444 with Speer 235 gr bullet at around 2300 opened my eyes. I thought this bullet would be too soft if anything. But I got stem-to-stern penetration on Impala and BWB (believe it or not) and through and through on Nyala (raking shot), Warthog and Kudu. When I hit a heavy bone, the bullet was recovered on the opposite side, in pieces. It stands to reason that for any given soft, if you slow it down to the point where it hangs together, it's going to act like a solid and then it will keep going til it exits. But if you hit bone, it's going to open up at the expense of penetration. Your best bet is to use the hybrid bullets with enough velo to get them to open on lung shots (with no major bones hit)...and that will be plenty of velo to get great penetration. The risk of trying the old slow/conventional bullet approach is that if you hit major bone, you are going to compromise penetration, while on lung shots you are going to get a bullet that performs like a solid.

20 March 2008, 21:44

Blacktailer

quote:
I WANT TO KNOW IF ITS TRUE THAT .375 H&H PERFORM BEST ON BUFFALO WHEN DOWNLOADING THE CARTRIDGE TO 2400-2500 FPS USING SOFT POINT BULLETS. ANYBODY HAVE TRY THIS?

Yes I have. You should only use tough bullets though if you are going to try this. I was using Speer African Grandslams at 2400fps and they are TOO SOFT for this and resulted in inadequate penetration. If you want to experience the thrill of buffalo hunting at its maximum, imagine pumping lead into to a POed buffalo with no effect

. As Chuck said, use the 350gr Woodleighs, I did and they are MUCH better at 2400fps.

20 March 2008, 22:10

Andy

Our host, Saeed, has killed over 100 buffalo with his 375 x 404 at about 2,650 fps I think.

He would certainly be surprised to learn from Dr. Robertson that he has been doing it wrong all these years!

I have shot american bison at point blank range w the 375 at up to 3150 fps with 250 grain Bitterroot, and know African hunters who have used this low SD bullet at 2,950 fps on African buffalo w decisive kills.

Same with 300 grain Bitterroot at up to 2,800 fps.

Premium bonded and monolithic HP bullets have completely changed this discussion, and have been widely available since the early to mid 1980's.

Will's last observation pretty well says it all.

PS I think Dr. R was trying to get the 300 grain FMJ to not exit a buff on a broad side shot so loaded it down until he got it to tumble? Kind of a 19th century solution to a 21st century problem.

Andy

21 March 2008, 10:29

Atkinson

Depends on the bullet you use...

I doubt that there is much difference in a 300 gr. bullet at 2500 FPS and 2650 FPS which about tops for a .375 H&H...I have shot my .375 at 2500 with 300 gr. bullets forever and with perfect results...Keeps pressure down and kills well...

I think Kevin suggested 2300 FPS, and I'm sure that would work as well...I use the 350 gr. Woodleigh at near 2400 and it puts big bloody holes in buffalo and exits about half the time...

I like two big holes in anything I shoot, one going in and another coming out... Kevin is of the school that a bullet should stop on the off side hide thus expending all its energy inside the animal...I completely disagree with that therory...

21 March 2008, 21:18

jorge

I agree with Andy. Given proper bullet construction that is up to the task, velocity is a definite contributor to the killing process. jorge

21 March 2008, 22:08

Atkinson

Andy,
Kevin Robertson aka Doctari, hunts buffalo in herds, his book states pretty clearly that when hunting in herd situations, its a bad idea to have total penetration as you could wound a second buffalo...That is considered a valid point or at least an argueable point..

I have found it pretty easy to allow a bull clear and then shoot. IMO this is the better option as even a less penetrating bullet can completely penetrate a buffalo and wound another on ocassion. I am oppposed to shooting willy nilly into a herd with any caliber.

Another valid point of view, but one I don't agree with is a bullet should expend all its energy inside and animal and I know many professionals that agree with this. I also know many that do not.

In big bores, I believe it takes a lot of velocity increase to make much difference in killing power, a couple of hundred FPS is nothing to write home about...On these big animals I think a big hole on both sides that lets out a bunch of blood is what is needed. Shock is for smaller animals that succomb to it quickly, Cape Buffalo are pretty much immune to shock until they run out of the red stuff..Bison IMO are immune to death, they just die when the notion occurs to them or they finish eating...

I have observed Saeed shoot many bulls with his 375/404 and it kills them very well indeed, and Saeed never misplaces a shot...I have seen many bulls killed with big slow moving bullets including the .375 at slower velocities and all the results are very simular in that the bulls runs 50 yards or so and dies when he runs out of gas...

21 March 2008, 23:58

Dogleg

quote:
Originally posted by jabali:
I WANT TO KNOW IF ITS TRUE THAT .375 H&H PERFORM BEST ON BUFFALO WHEN DOWNLOADING THE CARTRIDGE TO 2400-2500 FPS USING SOFT POINT BULLETS. ANYBODY HAVE TRY THIS?

Why don't you shoot your buffs farther away, and see if they die faster?

22 March 2008, 03:37

cable68

In his new book on buffalo, Robertson himself states that he now prefers the 350gr bullets.

In regard to the lowered velocity 300 gr soft points, he says he came up with this idea mainly for frontal shots to counter a "Trampoline effect". He initially wanted clients to use softs on broadsides, and solids for frontals. Then he came up with the idea of using reduced velocity loads with premium softs for the first shot to be ready for whatever shot presented itself.

25 March 2008, 02:34

Oldcoyote

quote:
Originally posted by Dogleg:

Why don't you shoot your buffs farther away, and see if they die faster?

Superb!

25 March 2008, 07:46

chuck375

lol too funny OldCoyote

Chuck

25 March 2008, 18:54

jabali

quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
Andy,
Kevin Robertson aka Doctari, hunts buffalo in herds, his book states pretty clearly that when hunting in herd situations, its a bad idea to have total penetration as you could wound a second buffalo...That is considered a valid point or at least an argueable point..

I have found it pretty easy to allow a bull clear and then shoot. IMO this is the better option as even a less penetrating bullet can completely penetrate a buffalo and wound another on ocassion. I am oppposed to shooting willy nilly into a herd with any caliber.

Another valid point of view, but one I don't agree with is a bullet should expend all its energy inside and animal and I know many professionals that agree with this. I also know many that do not.

In big bores, I believe it takes a lot of velocity increase to make much difference in killing power, a couple of hundred FPS is nothing to write home about...On these big animals I think a big hole on both sides that lets out a bunch of blood is what is needed. Shock is for smaller animals that succomb to it quickly, Cape Buffalo are pretty much immune to shock until they run out of the red stuff..Bison IMO are immune to death, they just die when the notion occurs to them or they finish eating...

I have observed Saeed shoot many bulls with his 375/404 and it kills them very well indeed, and Saeed never misplaces a shot...I have seen many bulls killed with big slow moving bullets including the .375 at slower velocities and all the results are very simular in that the bulls runs 50 yards or so and dies when he runs out of gas...