31 August 2004, 12:16
AtkinsonI'm all for hunting canned Lions
Had some interresting conversations with some very knowledgable folks on my recent trip to Africa and it came to mind that as long as RSA is shooting and killing canned Lions for big bucks and raising those Lions, it is the best thing that could happen to our small and dwindling number of wild Lions in the remote places of Africa...It keeps the jet set and powerfull people out of the wild places...
Makes since to me...Sometimes we as Americans tend to react with emotions and speak before we know of what we say.....the same can apply to all species...there is light at the end of the tunnel.
31 August 2004, 12:32
ArtsMakes good sense. I really have never been against canned hunts, just not for me. What difference should it make to me if some guys hunt caged animals? None. Does it affect me or my hunt? No. They know what they've done; I know what I've done.
The rub is going to come because some people say it sheds a poor light on hunting. That might be so, but I'd like to think most people could make the difference recognition.
31 August 2004, 12:34
Gonzo FreakPowerIncendiary stuff Ray. I'll be staying tuned for the reactions. What's your take on disclosure in relation to these hunts? Could be a gray area. How do you guarantee someone who's paying for a real-life wild hunt they're not getting a canned hunt?
31 August 2004, 12:43
BFaucettWell, that certainly is a different way to look at it. Makes sense in a lot of ways.
-Bob F.
31 August 2004, 12:38
ArtsThat's a good point, but reputation should play in there pretty high. Puts more meaning in "research" aspect of lining up a hunt.
31 August 2004, 12:56
DungbeetleUhhh, Ray?
Nothing personal and no flame intended but after reading your post several times I have to ask you the following: How many hunting trips have you made to Africa? More than a few, I think? Dont you hunt and safari with a "fairly well to do crowd"? Doesn't this make you one of "the Jet Set and powerful people" that you speak of?
Again, nothing personal but you seem to imply a double standard here pending your definition of "Jet Set". Anyone (you) who flys there multiple times for multiple hunts with wealthy podnahs falls into that category by my definition. You dont have to explain about being an ole ranch hand who pulled himself up by his bootstraps. You ever do one of these canned lion hunts, by the way?
Dungbeetle
31 August 2004, 17:12
OldsargeI am not and will never be likely to be able to afford a lion hunt anyway but here's my half cent's worth. Kerneels Vad der Welt has nearly 27,000 acres behind electric fences of some of the most impenetrable, miserable thornbush one could ever not want to try and crawl through. There will be no internal fences when the plan is finished. When the plan is finished the entire Big Five will be living free range within that property. Is anyone going to maintain that because it is "high fenced" that hunting there is somehow "canned"? I hope not because I hunted zebra on that place and even though there are 6-700 zebra there and even though a zebra weighs 6-700 lbs and looks like an escaped con, after a week of hard hunting we had managed to see nine and shoot none. I somehow cannot help but feel that a lion hunt there would be just as tough, especially since the favored manner of hunting lion these days is by baiting. So, are they wild or not? Is a carefully bred Texas whitetail trophy living free range wild or not? Is there any wild left on this planet or should we face the reality that the Big Blue Marble has now become a garden and we'd better start being really good gardners? (Boil, boil, toil and trouble . . . Bwahahahahaha!)
31 August 2004, 17:24
Frank BellerOldSarge ...... good post, very true.
31 August 2004, 17:28
875xI know some people who are going on a lion hunt in SA I have no problem saying they are as fine a group that i have hunted with and a looong way from being slobs. My understanding is the animals are running loose in one of the big areas and they will munch you if they get a chance. They will not all be shooting big maned males either.
I dont think much of shooting them in cages and wouldnt be a part of it.
So does this make everyone that shoots plains game on the big ranchs behind high wire a slob. Should I hide my trophys in shame?
31 August 2004, 17:41
HarryGee Ray...thanks for taking the heat off the "Which is best Tuffpak or case XYZ?"
Nothing like some rich guy in Idaho living off the dole of the Federal govt. stirring up the pot...now...about Michael Moore.
31 August 2004, 18:55
SaeedA very good friend of mine hunted sable on a fenced farm in Zimbabwe - about 3,000 acres of thick bush.
They wounded a sable bull, and spent several days chasing it in that enclosure, without being able to finish him off.
I do enjoy hunting in South Africa - and I KNOW I am hunting inside a fence.
Would I hunt lion in South Africa? Absolutely not.
Would I hunt buffalo inside a fence? Absolutely not.
I know, once a fenced up area gets to a certain size, the fence does not really makes that much of a difference.
But, I KNOW there is a fence. And that, to me, is a major factor in keeping my hunting in South Africa to just plains game.
I have absolutely no objection to others who wish to enjoy hunting any animal, whether inside a fence or not.
I do object, however, when someone does shoot a lion raised for that purpose, and proudly say they "hunted" that lion.
31 August 2004, 19:39
cchunter
Wouldnt even call him canned. Photographed by Frederik Cocquyt in Free State, South Africa outside the lunch table.
31 August 2004, 22:00
JohnTheGreekRay advocating class warfare?! I'm surprised, he is never at the meetings of all the rest of us "commie pinko bastards"!
Best,
JohnTheGreek