Why must you prove ownership for guns but not say a Rollex watch or diamond ring etc. This last trip returning thru Dullas via SAA (which place red tags "Firearm" on your luggage if it contains gun or ammo. I removed the red tags from my Tuffpak and duffle and when I went thru customs they just waved me thru. Could it have been the absence of the red tag i e they knew it was a SAA flight clearing at the time.

I thought the purpose of the form was to prove you "owned" the item prior to leaving the states.

You do have to prove ownership of your Rolex (or any other fine watch, camera, etc.) if asked. I have 4457s for all my good watches.

George

OK George, but do they ask? I have never seen anyone in the decleration line for items other than guns or someone declaring over $10,000 in cash.

That form provides proof of ownership prior to leaving the US. It is only presented when you return to the US.
The proof assures you that you will not have to claim the item as an import. As an item not being imported, it is not subject to import duties (Taxas).

I also put cameras and binocs on one.

I also have all cameras/range finders/binos that go with me listed on a 4457.

But, I never wear any jewelry of value outside of the US. I only wear an Ironman watch that I would consider disposable if that became necessary.

I guarantee if there's a customs jerk available to clear incoming passengers, I'll end up in his or her line. I'd rather have nothing extra with me that is worthy of raising a question about whether or not I owe duty on it.

Guns.

It's a given that some US Government agency employee is going to check guns entering the country. It really has nothing to do with customs, but since they are already there, they get to do it.

Otherwise some other US Government agency employee would have to do it. Immigration? Border Patrol? ATFE?

Think of the sort of airport hell you would have to go through if an Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms agent were checking our guns as we entered the US. The Customs Agent does not give a damn about gun laws, he or she just checks your little 4457 form and matches the serial number and off you go. An ATF agent would be trying to make up his own laws according to his political beliefs and do everything he could to delay you or deny your guns entry.

4457 is only proof of possesion, not ownership. Many foreign governments interpret it as proof of ownership or some form of registration but it is neither. When I have registered an item they have made no copy of the 4457 and asked for no proof of ownership. I have registered borrowed weapons and taken them abroad on more than one occassion. I once asked a friendly customs agent why only firearm carriers (as opposed to say golf club carriers) always had to go thru the "something to declare" line with its attendant searches. His response was that they (Customs) did this at the request of ATF. I suppose that I would prefer Customs to ATF.

I think it is prudent to list ALL valuable items on the 4457--especially if an item was manufactured outside the U.S.

In addition to firearms, I list my scopes on the 4457 as well. Also binoculars, cameras, rangefinders--just about all optics, most of which are foreign made.

The 4457 more or less says, "I had it with me when I left on this trip and didn't buy it abroad."

And yes, many countries "interpret" the 4457 as proof of firearm ownership--thankfully. Otherwise, we'd be corralled into some sort of U.S. firearms registration.

I didn't have a 4457 or even know what one was on my first trip to RSA in 1996, and nobody on either end cared. You can bet I had one when I went to Zimbabwe in 2002, and by then EVERYBODY cared--

We had an interesting experience returning from Mozambique in September. We have used the same 4457's which list many of our rifles on the same form. Never had any problems...

This time the Custom's guy looked at our 4457's that had mutiple rifles. I pointed to the rifle I had with me. He rolled his eyes and had a fit that there were other rifles listed on the form, which I did not have with me. He said the form was old and was issued in 2006. He walked away. Wouldn't talk to me, talked to other officers. Then he said he was going to have to cross off the other rifles. I told him the form never expires and that it simply proves we were not importing the rifle and he shouldn't cross anything off the form. He finally (very rudely)relented and let us go.

Welcome Home!!!!

Regards, D. Nelson

Typical government employee!

Now, that's scary! Mine are all laminated, so good luck on that one! Why are we legitimate gun owners and hunters always perceived as a threat or somehow evil?

Kind of ironic that the only country in the world with a Second Amendment requires you to prove you had the firearm you are bringing in is the firearm you left with when you are coming back into the country .....WTF???It is way more easy to travel with your firearms to another country than it it is for someone from another country to tavel to US....WTF II????
My friends from abroad or Canada or Mexico, borrow one of my firearms due to US rules......WTF III???
It was boxcutters Morons, not firearms!!!

Tom in Tennessee,

The form is a generic form, used to avoid Customs duties by showing that you had the item prior to leaving the country.

It is not a firearms issue.

As for your foreign friends, they are the victims of overzealous bureaucrats at Treasury and Justice (with some help from Congress).
They CAN temporarily import firearms, they just have to obey the rules.

George
P.S. The Second Amendment, like most of the Constitution applies primarily to U.S. citizens. It does not extend to foreigners.

Dont have one for your firearms, which US Citizens are guaranteed a right to own, and see how "generic" it becomes!
Competive shooters even have trouble getting their firearms into this country.....do you have to start your import to another country six months before you enter???? They do!!
Good old days, pre-1968 when I could board an aircraft with my soft case firearm in my hand are gone forever as is my opportunity to buy ammo from the 5&10 when I was eight years old!....but we are much "safer" now....

Actually there is a specific reason why they want to see the 4457 for firearms in particular: if you are bringing in a firearm, you not only have to pay duty, you need an ATF6 (import permit). If you can prove you took it out with you, you are not importing it, hence no ATF6 required.

The 4457 is used for plenty of other stuff as well, it is the form I have to use when coming back from the sand box with body armor and other items.

quote:

Originally posted by Tom In Tennessee:
Dont have one for your firearms, which US Citizens are guaranteed a right to own, and see how "generic" it becomes!

I don't know if you've ever traveled internationally with personal firearms, but a simple dated of bill of sale showing you owned the gun/camera/watch/etc. prior to travel is perfectly acceptable proof. The 4457 is merely a convenience as far as I am concerned, as it does not require me to wonder where my bills of sale and/or receipts are.

By the way, you have no inherent right to cross U.S. borders unimpeded. While you may use a U.S. drivers license to cross our borders with Canada and Mexico, if asked, you must provide proof of citizenship, e.g., birth certificate or passport/passport card.

Also, your passport (or passport card) is the property of the U.S. State Department, and serves to a) establish your citizenship, and b) keeps a record of your entries/exits.

George

quote:

Originally posted by Die Ou Jagter:
I thought the purpose of the form was to prove you "owned" the item prior to leaving the states.

Precisely. Regardless of the item. Except that no item can be listed on the 4457 unless it has a serial number.

In the case of firearms, some foreign countries accept the 4457 as though it were a kind of "firearms license" authorizing possession in the USA.

In such countries, having a 4457 for one's firearm facilitates obtaining a foreign permit to import the firearm into the country on a temporary basis for hunting purposes.

Fine with me.

The biggest reason IMHO is all those 'jobs' O'bamanista is creating. Here's all these customs jobs to check 4457's. It's going to get worse I fear.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by El Juero:
The 4457 is used for plenty of other stuff as well, it is the form I have to use when coming back from the sand box with body armor and other items.
Actually there is a specific reason why they want to see the 4457 for firearms in particular: if you are bringing in a firearm, you not only have to pay duty, you need an ATF6 (import permit). If you can prove you took it out with you, you are not importing it, hence no ATF6 required. Russ Gould[/if you are bringing in a firearm, you not only have to pay duty, you need an ATF6 (import permit). QUOTE]

+1