Just finished reading an article with some input from Kevin "Doctari" Robertson and in it he says that a few years ago Zimbabwe lowered the min energy requirement for buffalo from 5.3 to 5.0 kJoules (about 4100 ftlbs to 3500 ftlbs) to make the 9.3x62mm legal. He also says that the 9.3x62mm isn't legal in some countries and cites Natal & Kwa-Zule in South Africa as two areas where it isn't legal for buff.

Now Ray before you get cross-ways with this, he didn't say it wouldn't take buff, just that the requirements had been lowered to allow it in Zim but that all the others hadn't followed suit.

DB Bill,

The 9.3X62 caliber is not the best 9.3 for buffalo. But I can't doubt about your post.

I think the most appropriate 9.3 caliber for african buffalo is 9.3X64. Same velocity as .375 H&H with one difference diameter for the 9.3 (.366). And with this caliber you reach easily the minimum energy required by African countries.IMHO

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BER007
Keep the faith in any circumstances
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BBER007@HOTMAIL.COM

The reduction of energy to the 9.3x62 is an obvious concession to wide spread ownship of this .375 H&H wannabe.

Throw those small bores in the trash!!!!

Will

/

I usually shy away from these debates, but will go out on a limb in this one. The 9.3-62 was designed on the continent for the inexpensive 98 mauser and accompanied thousands of German immigrants to Africa. It's use was as widespread as our '06; a working mans medium bore. The .375 H&H was originally designed as the longest round to fit a standard '98 mauser, but was always more a home in a mag mauser and always more expensive. The .375 largly achieved its popularity because the Mod 70 gave it an inexpensive platform in the '30's. Both are great rounds. The .375 obviously has the performance edge, but both had bullets that gave excellent penetration and the .375 has the edge in trajectory. I've had a 9.3 for years as an open sighted bear gun. A bolt action "guide gun" if you will. I love it.

DB,
I know'd that!!

I also know'd the 375 H&H, 9.3x64 and 9.3x62 are all equal in killing power, know'ed it for years and proved it many times to myself and others in the field, not on a notepad or by some balistics chart or gun magazine or in the world of cyber tech.

As to the specs so ofter referred to try this on for size, right out of my chronograph charts:

375 H&H 300 gr. 2550 24"
9.3x64 320 gr. 2486 26"
9.3x62 320 gr. 2400 26"
With 286 gr. the two 9.3 differed by 146 FPS.when maxed out. Less with accruacy loads.

That where my max accurate loads were, the fastest that shot well....that's not a heck of a lot of difference..

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Atkinson You basterd, you beet me my a few minutes, I fought this time I will beet you, but again very wise words

BER007
I have to disagree with you, the 9.3x64 will not give you better performance on large game like buffalo, it have been proved in the past that the 9.3x62 is much more reliable on these species, and the higher velocity is not gone give you any better killing power, it is like using the 308 win and the 3006, which bullets like 180 grain and less you don�t see any better killing power, but one thing is you can rely on the 9.3x62 to get the job done, it has done it in the past and will in the future

What the 375 can do the 9.3x62 can do, ask anyone who have used them, I have shot with both and can't see any difference in killing power. The old hunters would not have used it if it was not reliable.

Hi Alf, you are correct as always, people who have used the round and have experience with it and not just one paper cant but agree with us.
Flip

[This message has been edited by Flip (edited 02-22-2002).]

But Ray....wouldn't you rather dance with a woman who was sportin' 38D's rather than one with 34A's...all else being equal of course?

DB,
Naw! I was allways a leg man!! I knew there was a logical reason why I liked the 9.3x62, thanks DB!

sorry Flip, bi at my age I have to post quick, never know when the big guy upstairs is gonna shoot.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Flip,

Yes and not.
Why our host Saeed has built a .375/404 same ballistic than .375 RUM...euh... just to use his old .404 brass. I don't think so
I'm a little bit sarcastic. Sorry.

I'll have for big animals a 9.3X62 (wonderful caliber) in a Blaser R93 rifle, I think it is the most versatile 9.3 because of its large range of bullet's weight that you can use with this caliber. I don't want a 9.3X64 no use for me in EU and other games .

My post was only to point out that 9.3X64 is the nearly the same as .375 H&H (ballisitics on paper of course). 9.3X62 is very close to .35 Whelen Ackley Improved if you to compare it to an american caliber.

I agree with you that 9.3X62 is popular in old German colonies (not only) in Africa and rest of the world. And this caliber is becoming more populer in the USA and I'm happy that USA love it. In 1990 RWS have sold 6 boxes of 9.3X62 brass in one entire Year in the USA. Now time is changing fortunately.

It is a useful caliber and I'll want one. I'll use this caliber for hunting big wildboars in EU.

For sure I'll love 9.3X62 with RWS brass and Norma bullets.

Nevertheless, I have taken some words from Jonh Taylor regarding the 9.3X62 caliber, and of course I agree with the following. But 9.3X64 is nearly the same as .375 H&H, I say it one more time.

John Taylor having said :
"that it's the most popular and most widely used medium bore in Africa, there isn't a great deal more than one can say about it - that just about covers everything"

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BER007
Keep the faith in any circumstances
------------------------
BBER007@HOTMAIL.COM

DB Bill, does Natal and Kwa-Zulu have different regs than the rest of RSA? I am going to Natal in late June and just curious. Am not after buffalo either way. Are they in essence like different states here and can formulate their own laws?

Thanks

Chic

Let's see. In order to pretend it's .375 H&H, you have to have a 45" barrel and load up until the pressure is 85,000 psi.

Or, 3500 ft-lbs of the 9.3x62 is the same as 4100 ft-lbs of the .375.

So then a 30-06 with 3000 ft-lbs is just as good as a 9.3x62, which is almost as good as a 7mm Mauser at 2300 ft-lbs.

Which makes the .375 the same as a .470 at 5100 ft-lbs which is essentially a Lott at 6300 ft-lbs.

Just to stir the pot!!

Yeehah! Spur that bronc Will!

the .375 v. 9.3 debate is the equivilent of saying the 7mm mag is much, much beter than the .280 which in truth you nor the game you shoot can't tell the difference. Good Greif! some people! Of course they are different and the tragectory is different but not by much - check the energy levels and velocity close and far away, and the SD's and BC's of the bullets, then through all your studying away and try them in the field and you will find - no difference. DAAAAAA!

Chic....you got me there, I was only quoting what I read in a recent article in "The Accurate Rifle" written by Kevin Robertson,the PH/Vet who wrote "the Perfect Shot". I have to assume the regs are different......aren't some of the provinces in South Africa at least semi-automonous?

DB Bill,
You've got me as far as the autonomous part. I will be able to spend a few days with our outfitter/owner at SCI so I will find out. My first trip down there.

The tension is building. June 18th is going to come pretty fast.

Chic

I'll tell you what. If I had nothing else but my 338-06 AI, I would take a buff with no qualms. The 9.3 would be ever better.

Terminal ballistics matter more than anything else. The 9.3X62 works. Nuf, said.

But.......I'd, of course, rather have a 470+.

-Catter

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Shoot the largest caliber you can shoot well, and practice , practice, practice.

/

Where can one get factory loaded ammo for the 9.3x62 mail ordered?. I am currently negotiating for a CZ and want to shoot it when I pick it up.........Thanks

Eric, there is a company in Maryland that sells them. I have attached a link. Someone sent it to me when I was looking for 9.3X64 Brenneke ammo.

http://www.owlnet.com/quality/

Chic

Sorry Craftsman, Will has both feet in the D rings and ain't making much of a ride.. Cut 4"'s of my 9.3's barrel ( BTW, I have a 20" 9.3x62 also) and its still right up there with the 375 H&H from a practical stand point, and based on my use of them both for shooting buffalo...That said, although I have used them both successfully on Buff,and can't tell any difference in them, I prefer the 416 or 404 for my Buffalo hunting and I can definately tell the difference in these two big boys and a 375 or a 9.3xanything.

The 40 calibers are a better mouse trap.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

"The excellent is the enemy of the good."

This old Chinese proverb certainly applies here.

I would like to stir the pot a bit by commenting on the performance of my .376 Steyr ProHunter with 20" barrel. I used the Hornady 270 grain factory load in Zimbabwe last fall on a large eland. Next up is a Cape buff after I do some load development with the GS FN.

The cartridge is the 9.3X64 shortened to 60 mm and opened up to 9.5mm (.375").

This new cartridge gives much of the power of the .375 H&H in a standard length action.

jim dodd

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"if you are to busy to
hunt, you are too busy."

Ray:

At least we can agree that, I believe, that the .375 H&H is marginal stuff for buffalo. It works, but just barely.

Will

Will,
Agreed! and on both of them.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Pfffttttt! Finn Aggard suggested the .375 H&H for his clients hunting buff. Calling it marginal is just plain mean-spirited.

cape buffalo is nothing more then a medium sized cow.

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Howard
Moses Lake WA
hhomes@homesley.com

Ray I am surprised to hear you admit to owning a 20 " barrel on anything? grin You can't fine 9.3 x anything ammo in gunstores here. Then again you can't find 375 either. Go figure. "D"

DHunter,
I was over at Brockmans and he said he had something I needed...He produced this lovely little JP Sauer single C ring action with a 20" Oct., full rib barrel, barreled action, so what could I do but grab it run home and whittle out a stock with side panels and a schnable forend tip out of an old piece of well seasoned French Walnut thats been speaking to me for 20 years saying "use me", use me", I had no other choice...

Finn or no Finn, anyway you cut it, the 375 and 9.3's are minumum for dangerous game, even the game depts. have stipulated that in writing..It's a fact of life, it means they are the least caliber that can be used...Is that hard to swallow or what??? I cannot disagree with it..I have been in a couple of situations wherein I was concerned if a 404 was enough, and sure wouldn't want to stop a charge with a 375....The moment of truth is when wonders if his fast decisions are correct..

I can attest to the fact that Finn carried his 458 Win, a rebarreled Rigby (He loved that Rigby,) while guiding clients for Buffalo, as he said "It just makes bloody bigger holes." Finn considered the 375 sufficient and I do to, but there are better rounds.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Kinda gets back to that old joke about "Why did you shoot him with a 45?" "Cause they don't make a 46!" was the answer.