The Accurate Reloading Forums
African heat cartridge reliability
26 July 2011, 15:42
eezridrAfrican heat cartridge reliability
For all you USA Citizens. What better time to check the reliability of you favorite African cartridge in excessive heat. This heat wave we are experiencing covers about 1/2 our country. I do not expect you will experience much difference across the pond.
Stop guessing about this issue and experience the results yourself with your gun and favorite load.
Man it's hot out there!
EZ
The heat just makes the slow poke average bullet go zinging along at such a greater speed as to make it a Super Bullet!
-------------------------------
Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.
---------------------------------------
and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR
_________________________
"Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped.
“Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped.
red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com
_________________________
If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go.
26 July 2011, 17:22
JBrownThere is very little rise in pressure due to they type of heat you see while on safair(70-105F),
I have done a lot of my shooting in a dry riverbed that is often well above 110. When it gets this hot I drink about 2 liters of water in a 2-3 hour shooting session, but I have never seen any problems with my ammo.
Heat might have been a problem with cordite, but it's not a problem with modern powders.
Jason
"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________
Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.
Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.
-Jason Brown
From my old Norma book ,30-06, 180 gr
68 F - 2685 fps , 42,600 psi
104 F - 2735 fps, 46,000 psi
Pressure is approximately linear up to 70 F then rises but pressure rises faster than velocity.
26 July 2011, 17:38
ScriptusAt the moment it is so damn cold that you will be lucky if the powder even hisses.
26 July 2011, 19:32
JCS271I'd love to try the test but before 10am and after about 7pm I have had to wear (at least) a light jacket. It has been cold and wet up here ALL SUMMER! Crazy weather. Oh well, 5 weeks till hunting season and the snow soon after that.
"The difference between adventure and disaster is preparation."
"The problem with quoting info from the internet is that you can never be sure it is accurate" Abraham Lincoln
27 July 2011, 07:27
chuck375I dropped my powder charge in my 500 Jeffery by 2 grains. My handload of 105g H4895 pushing a 570g TSX at 2410 fps at 60 degrees turned into 2500 fps and slightly sticky extraction at 96 degrees (the shells had been out in the sun for about an hour so they were hot to the touch). I reduced my load to 103g and in the same situation at 90 plus degrees they chrono'd at 2400 fps with easy (normal extraction). Needless to say, 103g is now my standard 500 Jeffery load.
Regards,
Chuck
"There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit"
Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness"
27 July 2011, 07:50
Michael RobinsonI don't worry any more since they stopped charging my ammunition with Cordite.
Mike
Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer.
quote:
Originally posted by JCS271:
I'd love to try the test but before 10am and after about 7pm I have had to wear (at least) a light jacket. It has been cold and wet up here ALL SUMMER! Crazy weather. Oh well, 5 weeks till hunting season and the snow soon after that.
In Gainesville, TX...we are well on our way to a record hot summer. 25 straight days over a 100 with no end in sight. Several days around 110...hottest so far 112.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM
A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House
No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.
28 July 2011, 05:38
FrostbitI lit my wood stove last wednesday to take the chill off the house in the morning.
28 July 2011, 06:18
AnotherAZWriterquote:
Originally posted by JBrown:
There is very little rise in pressure due to they type of heat you see while on safair(70-105F),
I have done a lot of my shooting in a dry riverbed that is often well above 110. When it gets this hot I drink about 2 liters of water in a 2-3 hour shooting session, but I have never seen any problems with my ammo.
Heat might have been a problem with cordite, but it's not a problem with modern powders.
It might not be a problem in terms of pressure, but ball powders absolutely show an increase in pressure when temps increase. It is not unusual to show a velocity difference of 150 fps when going from 20 to 100 degrees. Granted, no one should develop loads at 20 degrees to be used in 100 degrees if they use spherical powders, but the point is, they do show temperature sensitivity.
Extruded powders are much more temperature stable, to include those marketed as such.
Some powder/bullet/brass/primer combinations are deffinately less sensative than others.
I worked up loads for my 450 Dakota in fairly hot weather, 85-100 degrees F and ended up hunting in up to 120 degree temps.
The primers edge was still round radius.
RL 15, NF bullets, and large bore diameter made for stable pressure.
Andy
quote:
Originally posted by mete:
From my old Norma book ,30-06, 180 gr
68 F - 2685 fps , 42,600 psi
104 F - 2735 fps, 46,000 psi
Pressure is approximately linear up to 70 F then rises but pressure rises faster than velocity.
You got your CUP confused with PSI?
quote:
Originally posted by Andy:
Some powder/bullet/brass/primer combinations are deffinately less sensative than others.
I worked up loads for my 450 Dakota in fairly hot weather, 85-100 degrees F and ended up hunting in up to 120 degree temps.
The primers edge was still round radius.
RL 15, NF bullets, and large bore diameter made for stable pressure.
Andy
And Varget and H4350 Extreme powders have half the temperature variability of RL-15.
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
I don't worry any more since they stopped charging my ammunition with Cordite.
Indeed.
Modern powders: Much ado about nothing.
-------------------------------
Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.
---------------------------------------
and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR
_________________________
"Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped.
“Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped.
red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com
_________________________
If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go.
28 July 2011, 20:15
OldHandgunHunterIn my experience, the effect of higher ambient temperature on cartridge performance is minimal. That is, a cartridge will theoretically be a trifle "hotter" at 105 degrees F than at 70 degrees F, but not enough to worry about it.
The problem can get bigger if you "store" your ammo on the dashboard of a closed car sitting in the sun for a few hours -- but if that's a problem the solution is simple -- don't do it.
Generally, this is just projection of legitimate benchrest shooters concerns into bush hunting applications where they really don't matter. There are bigger things to worry about in the field.
When you get bored with life, start hunting dangerous game with a handgun.
29 July 2011, 20:53
Bryan ChickWhere we hunt, Zim, it is cooler than hunting in Texas; so, no pressure problems
quote:
Originally posted by RIP:
quote:
Originally posted by Andy:
Some powder/bullet/brass/primer combinations are deffinately less sensative than others.
I worked up loads for my 450 Dakota in fairly hot weather, 85-100 degrees F and ended up hunting in up to 120 degree temps.
The primers edge was still round radius.
RL 15, NF bullets, and large bore diameter made for stable pressure.
Andy
And Varget and H4350 Extreme powders have half the temperature variability of RL-15.
In some cartridges, but not others.
Long range 762mm match (175 grain_ ammo used to use Varget and now uses RL-15. They are both very good for both accuracy and temperature sensativity, and no doubt part of reason to switch was the RL15 flowed faster through the high speed machines, but in 762mm nato/308 winchester current GI long range ammo is loaded w RL-15.
I use both powders, and I know several 6.5mm Creedmor shooters who use H4350 Extreme exclusively. Both H and IMR versions of 4350 slimed my 450 Dakota barrel, yet it works in a little 6.5mm bore.
Go figure.
Andy
6.5 Creedmore shooters probably use H4350 because slow-burning powders give longer barrel life than faster ones. I use it in my 6XC match rifle. A non-issue in hunting rifles.
I don't know anything about a .450 Dakota, but H4350 is too fast-burning for use in a .458 Winchester.
This whole issue is meaningless anyway. It's hotter in Ohio in July and August than it is in African hunting areas from May through September.
Indy
Life is short. Hunt hard.
30 July 2011, 19:35
JabaliHunterquote:
Originally posted by JBrown:
There is very little rise in pressure due to they type of heat you see while on safair(70-105F),
I have done a lot of my shooting in a dry riverbed that is often well above 110. When it gets this hot I drink about 2 liters of water in a 2-3 hour shooting session, but I have never seen any problems with my ammo.
Heat might have been a problem with cordite, but it's not a problem with modern powders.
I'm sure you are right to a certain extent about modern powders, but what about when you've got one up the spout in hot temps and sunlight - the metal can get too hot to touch. I think that's where the .416 Rem's reputation for high pressure problems in Africa comes from. Maybe that's old news now though, like the problems with the .458Win