There was a thread recently about leaving bullets behind after your safari as "gifts". Below is a graphic reason why one shouldn't leave bullets as gifts to staff (Other than PH's of course )or Game scouts. In fact as much as possible, do not leave empty cases! Take empty cases back home to reload or else, encourage your PH to dispose of them properly out of the bush.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:

Kinda' looks like my battery.

Just yesterday I was thinking about the "poacher reloading kit" that Craig Boddington has mentioned several times.

If I remember correctly, the poachers were using the primers and powder from AK47 rounds to reload 375H&H cartridges with recovered mono-metal bullets that were pounded back into shape. I would have loved to see some photos of that set-up.

Bwanamitch
Do you have any more photos of this set-up, or a list of the headstamps? It looks like quite a few different cases were used to make "poacher approved 458WM". Thanks for posting, this is something we don't see everyday.

Jason

How many poachers use guns like pictured above as opposed to buying/stealing an AK? I understand the "handload" deal, just assumed that every third world country was teeming with AKs so I figured there must be some ammo for them around too.

I have no problem with a man shooting an animal to feed his family.

What I don't lik is what is going on in Tanzania about local people breaking the laws by killing animals they are not supposed too.

I have seen photos of lion cups, young sable and other animals killed by them.

I imagine that is one of the parts the game department should concentrate on.

quote:

I have seen photos of lion cups, young sable and other animals killed by them.

Come on, Saeed. If it can't get away it's dead, regardless.

Jbrown,
Sorry I don't have any of the headstamp, but the ones I have personally handled were .300 Win mags and .375 H&H

Guys, the em,pty cases are coming form hunting safaris picked up by the trackers, staff and Game scouts who sell them on to the local village reloader. The reloader buys them for $1.50 and sells a reloaded bullet for $5 to the poachers.

KEEP YOUR EMPTY SHELLS, or even better, offer $2 for each empty case recovered to the staff.

There are some realy brave men in Africa

Bwanamich:

When I was in Zimbabwe for buff (1993)my PH carefully picked up the 3 empty hulls from my 375. (I saw him walk back and retrieve them at the two spots I had been at when I fired)) I simply thought it was like my own lifelong practice of not littering the landscape with something not there until I came and simply liked it. Now,from reading this thread, I'm wondering if there was not an even more serious reason. I hope new prospective hunters are guided accordingly.

quote:

Originally posted by Shona:
There are some realy brave men in Africa

I was thinking the same thing. I get a chill up my spine at the thought of firing one of those.

quote:

Originally posted by Shona:
There are some realy brave men in Africa

There are some really desperate men in Africa.

Guys that rob 7-11's, are desperate or opportunists?

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Guys that rob 7-11's, are desperate or opportunists?

Having met a poacher in Zambia I have to more or less agree with Will. Poachers are driven to poach by two things, circumstances and man's ingrained desire to hunt. Desperation does not enter into it for the most part.

Try to put yourself in their shoes. If you had a choice to get by farming corn with hand tools(in poor soil, with uncertain water supply, etc.) or hunting which would you choose?

One evening I saw the poacher I met leaving the village with about half a dozen friends and someone mentioned that they were headed out for a night of hunting. I noticed that their mood bore a striking similarity to any group hunt that I have taken part in.

If roles were reversed I wonder how many of us choose to poach.

Remember that John Taylor was an accomplished poacher. He just used high end double rifles rather that front loaders, AK47's or snares.

Taylor talked about what he called "gas-pipe muzzleloaders". He said they used Tower muskets of the Brown Bess type and he spoke of coarse home-made powder and of finding great lumps of iron in buffalo that survived being shot.

In comparison those pictured above look like an improvement in firearms technology, although I wouldn't be surprised if some saw service in the U.S. Civil War.

Any guesses as to the pedigree of that bolt gun on the right??

quote:

Originally posted by Shack:


Any guesses as to the pedigree of that bolt gun on the right??

My guess was post 64 M70.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by Shack:


Any guesses as to the pedigree of that bolt gun on the right??

My guess was post 64 M70.

I don't think so. English looking front sight ramp and barrel taper back by the receiver.

If an M70 there would be checkering, though no sign is visible. It would have to be completely worn off. It also looks like maybe there is a fore end piece like on a super grade, which it's not likely to be. The field grade wouldn't have that. There's no sign of a pistol grip cap like on a super grade. But the pistol grip itself seems a bit long or something for the field grade, at least it doesn't look like my pre '64. The shape of the stock however otherwise does favor an M70. There's just no telling...probably unlikely even its owner knew..

It kinda looks like a Post 64 Model 70 African with the rear site,barrel swivel, and foreend cap?

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by Shack:


Any guesses as to the pedigree of that bolt gun on the right??

My guess was post 64 M70.

It is a BRNO

A few more pics:

Nearly all of those rifles are percussion-fired muzzleloaders needing caps (not primers) to fire. Except for that one bolt-action rifle on the right, empty cases would be of no value to their users. Providing modern smokeless powder for those relics would be the fastest way to eliminate poaching I can think of.

Bill Quimby

I want to add on this thread that my PH told me on my one and only hunt in Africa(sadly) that ground snares (wire traps) for small animals often accounted for the enraged buff that came from out of nowheres at some poor local. Maybe they were trying to defend themselves by having the moral support of carrying some kind of weapon (however poor).

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by Shack:


Any guesses as to the pedigree of that bolt gun on the right??

My guess was post 64 M70.

It is a BRNO

The lack of scope mounting groves eliminated BRNO from my mind. I though all BRNO big bores had integral mounts.

Just go to show what I know!

Bill you are probably right of course, but the photos I posted are not of the same series and the reloaded ammo on used empty cases are used in bolt rifles not the traditional gabore rifles in the pics.