Blaser R 93

05 September 2005, 18:37

Sambar 9.3

Blaser R 93

500grs, remember that blaser aims at the Euro market, and such rounds are still popular there. Also, the 404 has trouble feeding from the mag, at least in the one off custom I tried. It would seem that the action can feed up to standard belted mag, or the pointed ultramags, and thats it. Witness the fact that the 10.3x60R is a single round loading only.
I have heard of a successful conversion to 458 Lott, but cannot confirm that.
Since an awful lot of shooters recoil tolerance is reached at 375H&H levels, perhaps it doesn't matter to them. As for selling more, I don't think so. I have sold many, many 375H&H, some 416Rem, ONE 416 Rigby, Numerous 458Win and 2 470 NE, and one 458 Lott. Oh, and a 4 Bore rifle. Not even one enquiry about the 404.
I know of one gunsmith locally who has made one on an older Sako. it would seem, at least from an Australian perspective, that the 404 is a real niche market item.
As for the Lott, well since 99.9% of shooters don't need one, those who do can probably get by with one of the excellent custom rifles available in that fine chambering.
Since blasers production is sold out way ahead of their capacity to produce, I don't think they will lose any sleep over the 6 or so rifles they might sell per year in those chamberings.

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum

05 September 2005, 18:44

D99

quote:
I don't think they will lose any sleep over the 6 or so rifles they might sell per year in those chamberings.

I think your probably right. Blasers are at least 6 months behind the ball on shipping.

05 September 2005, 19:02

ALF

05 September 2005, 19:22

SpringTrap

Have been reading AR forums for a long time and must say the following is one of the few most sensible things said here:

Alf:

quote:
Unless you are hunting the big 5 ( and actually there are only about 3 animals on this planet that you need really big guns for the rest can adequately be shot with " queer low volume cartidges".

As well as:

quote:
I personally find it funny that people hunt small and medium game with 458 Lotts, 416's and the like.

A 375 which incidently is more gun than you will ever need and is considered by the AR fraternity as too small.

Those calibres smaller than .375 are most of the time the best ones to use!

05 September 2005, 19:35

500grains

You guys are using the same logic that Remington uses when they explain why they will not offer a different/better action than the M700: (i) no one REALLY needs it, and (ii) we sell lots of guns the way things are.

But there is clearly a demand for something better and something bigger as evidenced by the custom market. And it is not purely a European thing, or you would not find Hartman & Weiss, H&H, WR, Prechtl, Ritterbusch, Johannsen, Hambrusch, and others offering rifles in 500 JEff, 505 Gibbs, 577 Nitro, 600 Nitro, 700 NItro (note: not all of those makers offer all of those calibers).

05 September 2005, 20:19

D99

I am with you 500grains,

Remington gave away the market by not hitting us with the RSAUM cartridges first. What's really stupid is they didn't give the market away to Ruger, or Marlin, or Weatherby, they gave it away to FN, and the damn EU.

Remington really needs to come out with an affordable quality mauser action, they need to make FN pay for beating them to the punch.

05 September 2005, 20:21

D99

I want to make something clear, I am not a fan of the RSAUM or WSM cartridges, I think they are stupid and frivolent, but not useless. They offer no advantage, save a shorter action.

Before these cartridges came out Remington was on the top of the hill. I know this WSM thing hurt them.

05 September 2005, 20:25

D99

I read that article in African Hunter and I thought it was pure BULLSHIT!

The author's "perfect" rifle is a R77 Ruger with a tang safety. What kind of bullshit is this?

Yeah he's an expert!

05 September 2005, 20:37

D99

quote:
Originally posted by ALF:
Not to generalise but this always seemed like an American thing to me; ( not unlike motor cars, Americans are obsessed with large gas guzzeling V8's and V10's)

I don't get quotes like this. Why would you say generalise "Americans"?

If your a South African are you jealous because you know that any non-criminal American can walk into any gun store in America and buy whatever he wants from a Barrett 82 50 BMG to a Ruger 10-22 semi auto?

Or as a Canook are you jealous about this gun registration, and all the excess money you have to spend to keep your rifles.

Instead your critcal about the very same V8 and V10 cars driven all over Canada and most likeley produced in Canada funding your countries economy.

If an American wants to buy a 500 NE or a 585 Nyati it's his perogative, that's enough reason.

05 September 2005, 21:11

ALF

05 September 2005, 23:01

500grains

Reminder:

The 500 Jeff, 505 Gibbs, 500 NE, 577 NE, and 600 NE were invented by Europeans, not Americans.

06 September 2005, 09:04

D99

I love Canada though I think it would be better off as states 51 through 62.

Pure American Magnum Mania!

What about your Canadian Magnums, the 7mm Vom Hoffe, 8x68, and 9.3x70????????????

You can blame us if you want, but 500 Grains is right we weren't alone!

06 September 2005, 09:07

500grains

quote:
Originally posted by D99:
I love Canada though I think it would be better off as states 51 through 62.

That would give the Democrats a majority in the Senate. I say we let them be 1 state until they prove they are Republican.

06 September 2005, 09:27

D99

Ok, the Yukon can be a state the rest of you will have to wait until you prove that your all Republicans.

06 September 2005, 10:47

RuarkReader

Yeah, Blaser sure makes a lot of funny little calibers. I can't wait to add the the funny little 9.3 x 62 Mauser components to my Blaser R93 Synthetic in .308 Win. That pairing should do it all in N. America and Africa other than being a "stopper" for elephant in heavy cover.

Honestly, the critcisms I've read on this forum against the R93 are inane and mostly by people who are:
1. Too dumb to take the time to read the manual and learn to use its revolutionary design.
2. Those who have never shot one.
3. Self-righteous elitists who insist that controlled round feed or their precious Mausers are the only rifles suitable for a dangerous game rifle.

And now the R93 is criticized by the very same people who don't feel it's a suitable dangerous game rifle for not offering calibers above the .416 Rem. Mag.!

06 September 2005, 11:02

D99

RuarkReader (welcome to AR, I am suprised that you were able to get that name I had thought it was already gone)

I like both, Mausers and the R93, and I hate the M70 (as I don't beleive it's an improvment worth my time), and I love the M700.

So it just goes to show some rifle loonies are really screwballs!

and for Ray

06 September 2005, 15:51

Dom

Quite interesting thread, this hate 'em or love 'em. Most definitely a popular rifle in Europe, see a lot of them on drive hunts -- where I use a Rem 7400. Be interesting to know annual sales, if they were'nt any good they wouldn't sell.

I do not have an R93, but know that Blasers are tools for the trade, and they do it very well. Mine's a BD880, not made anymore, but it's the absolute #1 weapon I grab for most of the normal type hunting I do (20ga mag over an ought six with a hornet sandwiched on the side = carrying one weapon instead of three).

I don't know how you could invent a safer weapon, and that with no safety. It's either cocked or not.

Love 'em or hate 'em, but they work, period. And I don't get all this ugliness talk, I personally think they may not be beautiful, but they aren't what I'd say ugly either. Remember, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Be like all of us at the same time being married to Elle McPherson or Claudia Schiffer, Waidmannsheil, Dom.

06 September 2005, 17:15

D99

Dom,

When you figure out a way for all of us to be married to Elle McPherson or Claudia Schiffer let me know!

06 September 2005, 18:18

N E 450 No2

Kalle Stolt
Get the Blaser R 93 you will like it. I have 8 barrels and 3 recievers, includint a 28 ga bbl. I just returned from an Idaho black bear hunt where I carried a 375 tracker [19 3/4" barrel] and found it to be the ideal rifle in size,weight, and bbl length. I even used the 28 guage bbl to take a grouse for the pot.

Hornblower, welcome to the froum. I am glad to see women hunters, my wife is a bighunter. Her favorite hunting arm is her drilling [12x12x30-06]. With that gun she is prepared for everything. She has killed a deer or 2 with my Blaser R 93 However.

Andre Martens is spot on.
My Blaser R 93,s are the best bolt rifles I have ever used.

07 September 2005, 03:45

Sambar 9.3

G'day, I would have to agree with Dom and N E 450 No2, Examine an R93 in a shop, better yet borrow one in the field and shoot it. if you can get past the unconventional looks, I think you will find a rifle which is accurate, reliable, easy to maintain, and safe.
I had three BBLs for mine, the only gun I own which is more versatile than my R93 is my BBF in 7x57R/12g

Cheers, Dave
Non Illegitium Carborundum

07 September 2005, 05:44

Heritage Arms

After some one shoots a Blaser, preconcieved notions usually goes out the door. I use the R93! It is my favourite rifle

Aleko

07 September 2005, 07:24

N E 450 No2

Aleko
I drove through SLC, Labor day on my way home from Idaho. I called your numbers, but missed you. I will catch you next time.

07 September 2005, 08:56

wapiti7

I don,t understand the distaste that is being displayed about the R93?? I saved my money for 2 1/2 years to go to africa and I wanted a new gun for the trip. I looked at a lot of rifles. I wanted something with nice wood, good quality and less than $5000. So I bought an R93 in .375. With my hand loads, it shoots a .90 inch group at 100 yds. The wood on the gun is beautiful, the barrel finish is indesrtuctible and it,s a pleasure to shoot. It,s fast, handles good and it,s accurate. So my question is, why all the bitching????....wapiti7

07 September 2005, 09:14

RuarkReader

quote:
RuarkReader (welcome to AR, I am suprised that you were able to get that name I had thought it was already gone)

Thanks for the warm welcome D99. I was glad to get the name too (I always thought Ruark could write rings around Hemingway).

I've been a regular guest reader here for two years now before joining, and have really enjoyed reading the posts; both for and against the blaser, crf vs. pf, what is a suitable dangerous game rifle game rifle, calibers, bullets, etc.

Mausers are great guns, I like the Blaser R 93, and the double rifles are works of art. I believe Saaed said he didn't have a problem w/ push feeds on a DGR, Ganyana has spoken of the PH proficiency exam being passed by a gent w/ a Ruger No. 1 Tropical, and I think that Mr. Atkinson said that he knew in his heart of hearts that a .30-06 could do it all in Africa.

Use what is legal, know the rifle you use, and relish the hunt.

Cheers.

08 September 2005, 14:12

Sambar 9.3

G'day, Further to the idea of lefties and loaner rifles, for about 3 years now I have been using a blaser offroad in .270 win as a loaner for overseas hunters, who didn't have their own guns with them. With the lefty bolt and carrier, it works fine. A quick zero practice, and away to hunt.
The only complaints I have had are that the visitors can't take mine with them when they go! Most say they will get one, some offer ridiculous money for mine.
One gun, multiple calibers, and left and right handers. Doesn't get much better.

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum

08 September 2005, 14:14

Sambar 9.3

There you go D99, if you ever get over here, you will have something familiar to borrow!

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum.

08 September 2005, 23:33

Brown Dog

Joining this one rather late; but I must say how interested / surprised I have been to read the posts of the "Blaser Mutual Admiration Society" that seems to exist on AR.

Iâ€™ve copied across a post I made in response to a reloading question on another site. (see quote box below).

As regards the qualities of the R93 design itself: The R93 is a really, really neat idea â€“straight pull bolt, convenience for travel, weight, calibre interchange etc.

As indicated below, Iâ€™ve owned 2. A sporter 308 that shot 0.75 and a jagdmatch 243 that shot sub 0.5. But....

Theyâ€™ve both ended up going back to the factoryâ€¦â€¦â€¦

Two major drawbacks:

1. Ask any R93 owner [other than those at AR!

] how often his R93 fails to fire.

Compare that to your own experience of â€˜conventionalâ€™ rifle misfires.

In my experience, Blaser owners seem to put up with misfire rates between 2 and 4%.

(My 1st Blaser took this to 40% due to the fact that the rifleâ€™s chamber had been cut too short!! The 2nd misfired at about 4%. Blaser owners seem to think that 4 out of a hundred is OK . Interested in a Dangerous game calibre?!! ).

2. [When reading this point bear in mind that the previous point could suggest that they ain't got the design or engineering quite right] unlike most conventional rifles, any sort of breech failure is going to put the bolt body through your head â€“thereâ€™s nothing to stop it if the collet fails!

So, whilst R93s may be very accurate, ...........they certainly give you two things to think about each time you pull the trigger !

quote:
I've owned 2 R93s in the last few years and am very familiar with their design (I bought the second to demonstrate that I had a horizontal learning curve following all that went wrong with the first. It had the same problems but to a lesser degree .).

I believe, but would stand correction, that because of the 'collet' style locking mechanism of the bolt head you should reload ammunition for the R93 in the same manner as for a semi-auto; ie; full-length resizing and not just neck-sizing so that your reloaded ammo is always returned to factory dimensions. Because of the nature of the collet's lock up under pressure (it allows the cases to elongate slightly), you will have to pay particular attention to ensuring that the case shoulder is returned to factory dimensions. If you allow the cases to 'grow' the R93 will start to fail to fire due to light primer strikes.

Because of the peculiarity of the R93 bolt head (I can't think of any other design (except maybe the HK G3 etc series of assault rifles) that allows the bolt face to move back slightly whilst the round is fired. The critical length that changes (in the R93) is from case head to shoulder. It is this 'case head to shoulder' length increase that will cause the R93 (again, because of its unique locking system) to start to strike light.

The OAL of the case is not the critical dimension to prevent this (ie trimming the case mouth will not address the problem).

You will need to ensure that you 'bump' the case shoulder back to factory spec.

Bottom line is to return your ammo to factory dimensions; if you just neck size, or fail to bump the shoulder when full length resizing, the R93 will start to light strike your ammo after 2 or 3 reloads

09 September 2005, 00:42

RuarkReader

I don't reload so I can't comment on that issue.

Regarding misfires, after hundreds of rounds, I have experienced only one. When I was learning my rifle early on, I didn't push the bolt handle fully forward (which is just what the Blaser manual stated would happen about the bolt not being closed properly).

Cheers.

09 September 2005, 02:03

Spring

Brown Dog,
You said "Ask any R93 owner," about how often his R93 misfires...Well, I am one and have had mine for about 5 years. I've enjoyed lots of hunting with it here in the US as well as two trips to Africa, and to answer your question, never has my Blaser failed to fire properly.
How did you come up with your claim of "2-4% misfires? If there is in fact a "Blaser Mutual Admiration Society," considering the experience of most hunters here on AR, I suspect the admiration this gun enjoys has been earned.

09 September 2005, 02:43

Brown Dog

Spring,

Ammunition misfires should run at around 1 in 100,000 or less versus my postulated 2-4% for Blasers.

Where do I get the figures? Anecdotally of course; from Blaser owning friends and sporting acquaintances .......as well as my personal experience of owning 2 wholly unsatisfactory R93s. I've found that most Blaser users of my acquaintance are quite low volume shooters -zero and hunt, but don't plink- when asked to reflect, most seem to realise that they get about 1 light strike per 3 -or so- boxes of ammo.

I'm not claiming this to be a piece of careful research with proven statistical validity

; however it's my experience (and the experience of those around me)of the marque. [...I've never got over the fact that my first R93 had a chamber cut with insufficient headspace. Quality! If I'm not wearing shooting glasses, I now actually turn my face away from anyone taking a shot with an R93!]

However, there is cause for celebration, you're the first person I've ever heard of whose Blaser R93 has never failed to fire. Congratulations

The Blaser Mutual Admiration Society? I can't think of another firearm where the owners feel the need to defend their choice with such indignant righteousness! ..spent a lot of money ...other people point out safety / reliability 'issues'

...doh!!!

Each to his own!

09 September 2005, 03:10

RuarkReader

I think the key words are "defend their choice".

Cheers.

09 September 2005, 04:27

Sambar 9.3

Any mechanical device can fail. So far my R93 has worked fine, but then I don't reload for it. I expect one day it will misfire. but it hasn't yet.
They are not perfect, but they ARE pretty good. Perfect would be a custom mauser 98, with interchangeable BBLs, and a removable scope that reurns to zero, weighs 2.5kg, doesn't kick in 375H&H, all for $250.
maybe i'll make do with the R93?

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum

09 September 2005, 04:50

N E 450 No2

I have 3 Blaser recievers, and 8 barrels.
I have fired a few hundred rounds through them with out problems.
I have shot reloads in them also, except for the 28 GA bbl.
While you cannot please everybody all the time, most people who use Blasers and get to know them, like them.

09 September 2005, 06:43

Michael Robinson

Brown Dog,

Defend? Not me. All I do is report. THOUSANDS of rounds through two receivers and five barrels and not a single failure of ANY kind.

Two to four percent misfires? IMHO, that is sheer and utter nonsense. In that regard, I would remind you that the term "anecdotal evidence" is an oxymoron.

09 September 2005, 09:20

D99

I had one missfire in my 338 barrel. I am not posative if this was operator error (not have the damn thing closed all the way) or product malfunction.

One in about 280 rounds fired so far. I have rifles that do much worse, but 1 in 280 isn't so good for a 338 that I use on elk and black bear. Still love the rifle.

09 September 2005, 11:29

Brown Dog

mrlexma,
I'm not here to bang a drum, but 'anecdotal evidence' an oxymoron?

Anecdote: "A short narrative of an incident in private life"
Evidence:"That which makes anything evident".
Seems to me that all witness testimony is 'anecdotal evidence'!

....your 'report' category is not somehow elevated in validity; it is simply -to we your audience - your anecdotal evidence

I believe it was Bismarck who said words to the effect 'Only a fool learns from his own mistakes, I learn from the mistakes of others'

By no means am I inferring that the first part of that quote applies to you

but to dismiss all evidence to the contrary of your view is akin to sticking your fingers in your ears and going 'la la la'

Anyway, good luck to you, wherever you are!

09 September 2005, 11:48

Michael Robinson

Brown Dog,

You misconstrue.

Your evidence, to me (and I'm the only one who counts, to me), is anecdotal: i.e., third party, not reproducible (at least, by me or anyone else I know and trust) and therefore not empirically valid (again, at least, to me).

My evidence, although anecdotal to you, is directly and empirically valid to me. And where evidence is concerned, only the empirically and directly tested, is valid to me. That is what is known as the scientific method.

And that is alls I'm sayin'--as they say.

09 September 2005, 13:21

D99

FOR THE RECORD!

I have had M70s that were bigger hunks of shit than 200 north korean SKS rifles shooting 8x57 full time.

NO ONE IS GOING TO SWAY ME! I love the R93, the M700, and the Mark V. I also love the Mauser 98, the 1903 Sprinfield, and the 1917 Enfield. I may like the way M70s look, but I will never own another one, ok maybe a push feed one, but that's it!

09 September 2005, 13:41

ErikT

For the statistics: 3 barrels, 2 receivers, owned since 5 years and about 2000 rounds shot - NEVER any misfire!!!

Best regards,

Erik

- Satisfied R93 Hunter -

09 September 2005, 14:19

Sambar 9.3

Brown Dog, correct me if I'm wrong, but if the bolt on ANY rifle fails, won't it head on backwards? How is the blaser more dangerous than, say, an M98? Or a rem 700? If either of those bolts fail, won't they too wind up in the shooters head? The only one I can think of offhand that won't is the Lee-Enfield, as it was designed to(or it was a lucky chance that they) fail by "springing' open to the right.
I have seen this on several No1 Mk111*, usually the result of stupid overloads.
If the collett fails, that's the same as shearing off all the locking lugs on a conventional bolt action. Once again, unusual, but it has happened.
Nice pic of the blaser frags by the way. Do you have any pics of the hundreds of springfield 03s that disintergrated due to faulty heat treatment of the receiver? Or would that have shit-canned your arguement?

Cheers, Dave.
Non Illegitium Carborundum