Buffalo sport hunter killed in Uganda

09 February 2025, 06:12

quote:
I remember on Boddington for Buffalo II Berry Duckworth is quoted. “You might get your first two shots off before me, but when the 3rd and 4th shot comes, that is where this (his 458 WM) has counted.”

Actually, when things do go south, it is THE FIRST SHOT that counts.

Once that has happened, all hell breaks loose and no one knows where it ends.

A friend had a brand new double, and he wanted to try it.

I wounded a bull, which ran into a nasty thicket.

My friend asked if he could come along with me with his double.

We found the bull lying, facing us, under a tree which was growing sides to the ground.

To get to the buffalo, we had to crawl.

No clearing until were about 20 feet from him.

He saw us and jumped.

We both fired.

Buffalo drops dead.

I brained him.

My friend's shot hit him in the knee!!

09 February 2025, 06:33

Michael Robinson

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
. . . when things do go south, it is THE FIRST SHOT that counts.

Once that has happened, all hell breaks loose and no one knows where it ends.

Yes, indeed.

That’s the key lesson from all of these awful incidents.

Put the first shot where it counts.

If you don’t, then all bets are off.

09 February 2025, 07:29

Steve Ahrenberg

quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Steve, I don't remember predicting the outcome or criticizing the methods on a buff hunt other than stating my opinion that the client breaking down the bolt action each night is not required, and in this case, evidently contributed significantly to getting himself killed when it failed to fire.

As to the PH and outcome predictions, I simply responded to a guy here on AR with ZERO DG experience proclaiming that if the PH had had a bolt rifle instead of a double, he could have put a 3rd round into the beast and kept him down. Again, I'm not predicting anything but rather expressing my opinion from the description of the follow up that's been posted here, that if the PH got hit after shot 2 from his double and the rifle was knocked from his hands, he would likely not have been able to get a third shot off. Maybe he could have, but it doesn't sound like it.

The client telling the PH he can't shoot during a wounded buffalo follow up certainly doesn't seem to have been the best course of action.

Back when I was a professional pilot, the aviation safety guys always identified links in the chain of events that could have prevented a mishap. In my opinion, the PH having a DR vs Bolt rifle is a non starter. Plenty of dangerous game animals are taken with both types and no incidents. On the other hand, the client's gun not being functional after cleaning and insisting the PH not shoot during follow up of a wounded buff are a couple of chain links that stand out like a sore thumb to me.

Todd-

You misunderstood my post. You and I are in agreement on this. Maybe my post was poorly worded.

09 February 2025, 08:28

DCS Member

quote:
Originally posted by eagle27:
A tragic event for all concerned. I can't get to grips with what happened with the clients gun. Presuming the gun that failed on the follow up was the same gun the client used to take the shot that wounded the buffalo, therefore the gun did fire at least one shot 'since' the client stripped it down to clean the night before. I cannot see that any Mauser type bolt, whatever the brand, would fire any shot if it was not assembled correctly; the firing pin obviously cocked and was held by the trigger sear until the first round was fired to wound the buffalo in the first place.
If the cocking piece was not correctly screwed or pinned to the bolt it is difficult to imagine that the bolt could be inserted into the rifle, feed a round into the chamber, lock, cock and fire.

Maybe the rifle was a straight pull variety of some sort?

Eagle, I had the same question about the client’s rifle. It apparently did seem to work at some point during this altercation. It is not clear if the wounding and the incident occurred on the same day.

In all, it was a sad affair for all involved.

09 February 2025, 09:27

Saeed

quote:
Originally posted by DCS Member:
quote:
Originally posted by eagle27:
A tragic event for all concerned. I can't get to grips with what happened with the clients gun. Presuming the gun that failed on the follow up was the same gun the client used to take the shot that wounded the buffalo, therefore the gun did fire at least one shot 'since' the client stripped it down to clean the night before. I cannot see that any Mauser type bolt, whatever the brand, would fire any shot if it was not assembled correctly; the firing pin obviously cocked and was held by the trigger sear until the first round was fired to wound the buffalo in the first place.
If the cocking piece was not correctly screwed or pinned to the bolt it is difficult to imagine that the bolt could be inserted into the rifle, feed a round into the chamber, lock, cock and fire.

Maybe the rifle was a straight pull variety of some sort?

Eagle, I had the same question about the client’s rifle. It apparently did seem to work at some point during this altercation. It is not clear if the wounding and the incident occurred on the same day.

In all, it was a sad affair for all involved.

My understanding is it all happened the same day.

So the rifle malfunction is a big surprise??

09 February 2025, 12:11

eagle27

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:

My understanding is it all happened the same day.

So the rifle malfunction is a big surprise??

The shroud and firing pin were laying on the ground beside the client, the rifle untouched by the buffalo.
Of course it is a big surprise, why wouldn't it be, or maybe Saeed you have had a similar experience with the rifles you take and have taken to Africa over many years????

09 February 2025, 13:56

LHeym500

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Steve, I don't remember predicting the outcome or criticizing the methods on a buff hunt other than stating my opinion that the client breaking down the bolt action each night is not required, and in this case, evidently contributed significantly to getting himself killed when it failed to fire.

As to the PH and outcome predictions, I simply responded to a guy here on AR with ZERO DG experience proclaiming that if the PH had had a bolt rifle instead of a double, he could have put a 3rd round into the beast and kept him down. Again, I'm not predicting anything but rather expressing my opinion from the description of the follow up that's been posted here, that if the PH got hit after shot 2 from his double and the rifle was knocked from his hands, he would likely not have been able to get a third shot off. Maybe he could have, but it doesn't sound like it.

The client telling the PH he can't shoot during a wounded buffalo follow up certainly doesn't seem to have been the best course of action.

Back when I was a professional pilot, the aviation safety guys always identified links in the chain of events that could have prevented a mishap. In my opinion, the PH having a DR vs Bolt rifle is a non starter. Plenty of dangerous game animals are taken with both types and no incidents. On the other hand, the client's gun not being functional after cleaning and insisting the PH not shoot during follow up of a wounded buff are a couple of chain links that stand out like a sore thumb to me.

Todd-

You misunderstood my post. You and I are in agreement on this. Maybe my post was poorly worded.

The bull was shot to the ground w 2 shots. It got back up and came on, a 3rd shot was there. It is not the PH’s fault. It does not take what you call experience to read and provide reasoning. In the space between the bull being shot to the ground, getting back up, and coming on there was fine. Sadly, the guy w a loaded rifle had a broken rifle.

I also question that cleaning caused the break. We simply do not know that. It would take something extraordinary for that to happen. The whole event was extraordinary.

The bull did not take two and come in wi breaking stride. Thst is not what the report says. The report says that the bull was momentarily stopped, but got back up as the PH was reloading.

Everything is a trade off. We see the two trade offs of a double and magazine on display.

The bull was shot to the ground and got back up. There was time for more shots, but the double is slower to reload and the Client’s rifle was inoperable. You could not have scripted a more domino effect.

We also do not know the hunters first shot was not good. They are big strong animals. A donkey lung, follow-up, bull standing, client goes to finish him, rifle inoperable, a dying bull sees the party and comes. That may not be the case, but is as likely as the Client shooting the bull in the knee or guts for all we know.

09 February 2025, 13:58

fulvio

quote:
Originally posted by eagle27:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Saeed:

My understanding is it all happened the same day.

So the rifle malfunction is a big surprise??[/

QUOTE]The shroud and firing pin were laying on the ground beside the client, the rifle untouched by the buffalo.

No information on the rifle in question though, i.e. Make/Cal. type of bolt etc. ... some bolts will not push-feed for example.

09 February 2025, 18:22

Todd Williams

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
Steve, I don't remember predicting the outcome or criticizing the methods on a buff hunt other than stating my opinion that the client breaking down the bolt action each night is not required, and in this case, evidently contributed significantly to getting himself killed when it failed to fire.

As to the PH and outcome predictions, I simply responded to a guy here on AR with ZERO DG experience proclaiming that if the PH had had a bolt rifle instead of a double, he could have put a 3rd round into the beast and kept him down. Again, I'm not predicting anything but rather expressing my opinion from the description of the follow up that's been posted here, that if the PH got hit after shot 2 from his double and the rifle was knocked from his hands, he would likely not have been able to get a third shot off. Maybe he could have, but it doesn't sound like it.

The client telling the PH he can't shoot during a wounded buffalo follow up certainly doesn't seem to have been the best course of action.

Back when I was a professional pilot, the aviation safety guys always identified links in the chain of events that could have prevented a mishap. In my opinion, the PH having a DR vs Bolt rifle is a non starter. Plenty of dangerous game animals are taken with both types and no incidents. On the other hand, the client's gun not being functional after cleaning and insisting the PH not shoot during follow up of a wounded buff are a couple of chain links that stand out like a sore thumb to me.

Todd-

You misunderstood my post. You and I are in agreement on this. Maybe my post was poorly worded.

Sorry Steve. I definitely misunderstood your post. My bad.

Just a very sad and tragic mishap all around. Dangerous game hunting, as has been said before, is really POTENTIALLY dangerous game hunting. It doesn't take much for the potential to become real, which it certainly did in this case.

09 February 2025, 20:28

larryshores

It would be very interesting to know the facts on the rifle . Did it malfunction? Was it reassembled improperly after cleaning?

09 February 2025, 21:03

Saeed

This is only a guess!

The client cleaned his rifle the night before, as suggested by.

He might not have put it together properly.

Only explanation I can see from what we have read.

The rifle fired one shot, it seems, causing the buffalo to be wounded.

Something happened between then and the attempt at firing it again.

When he dropped it after being hit by the buffalo, the bolt came apart??

This is why it would be interesting to know what make the rifle was.

09 February 2025, 21:20

larryshores

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
This is only a guess!

The client cleaned his rifle the night before, as suggested by.

He might not have put it together properly.

Only explanation I can see from what we have read.

The rifle fired one shot, it seems, causing the buffalo to be wounded.

Something happened between then and the attempt at firing it again.

When he dropped it after being hit by the buffalo, the bolt came apart??

This is why it would be interesting to know what make the rifle was.

I agree with you . However, given a personal experience I wonder . I had a firing pin break in New Zealand once. Could that have happened?

09 February 2025, 22:43

fulvio

quote:
I agree with you . However, given a personal experience I wonder . I had a firing pin break in New Zealand once. Could that have happened?

There has been an official statement
declaring that the shroud and pin pertaining to the client's rifle and I quote :

"were found lying next to the client on the ground".

Something just does not add up.

Yes, a firing pin (tip) can break, though very rare. but for the whole assembly to come apart from the bolt housing is something else.

Stripping a gun for cleaning is not uncommon, in fact it is what is to be expected after a day in the field but this procedure does not include a complete dissection of the bolt because NOT ALL bolts are as simple to take down and reassemble.

09 February 2025, 23:36

eagle27

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
This is only a guess!

The client cleaned his rifle the night before, as suggested by.

He might not have put it together properly.

Only explanation I can see from what we have read.

The rifle fired one shot, it seems, causing the buffalo to be wounded.

Something happened between then and the attempt at firing it again.

When he dropped it after being hit by the buffalo, the bolt came apart??

This is why it would be interesting to know what make the rifle was.

There is one other scenario that could have led to the bolt becoming inoperable after firing the shot that wounded the buffalo. The report does state that after the buffalo was wounded "and after time was given, professional hunter Mini Trappe followed together with his client". I take that as meaning they waited for a period of time before following the wounded buffalo.

Is it possible during that waiting time the client played around with his gun, maybe cleaned it again as he obviously had developed a habit of doing after every time out in the field, and somehow did not reassemble it correctly? The gun failed to fire again when attempting to take the next shot off the sticks. The report states that the client failed to take a shot once the buffalo charged, maybe he was attempting to fix the bolt when he was hit by the buffalo hence the bolt parts were found on the ground next to him.

I don't know how closely PH's watch what their client is doing in the field but I would have thought with the inexperience they come across with clients that it would be in their interest to keep a good eye on what state the clients gun is in, especially before setting out on a follow up of a wounded beast?

09 February 2025, 23:37

Nakihunter

No DG experience.

The rifle was probably a straight pull design. Just an intuitive guess.

I cannot visualise a Mauser, CZ, Winchester etc. rifle unscrewing the bolt head after 1 shot.

quote:
Originally posted by fulvio:
quote:
I agree with you . However, given a personal experience I wonder . I had a firing pin break in New Zealand once. Could that have happened?

There has been an official statement
declaring that the shroud and pin pertaining to the client's rifle and I quote :

"were found lying next to the client on the ground".

Something just does not add up.

Yes, a firing pin (tip) can break, though very rare. but for the whole assembly to come apart from the bolt housing is something else.

Stripping a gun for cleaning is not uncommon, in fact it is what is to be expected after a day in the field but this procedure does not include a complete dissection of the bolt because NOT ALL bolts are as simple to take down and reassemble.

10 February 2025, 03:03

eagle27

quote:
Originally posted by Nakihunter:
No DG experience.

The rifle was probably a straight pull design. Just an intuitive guess.

I cannot visualise a Mauser, CZ, Winchester etc. rifle unscrewing the bolt head after 1 shot

I also thought it may have been a straight pull design but did not dare mention Blaser

10 February 2025, 06:27

Saeed

I get many people coming here to shoot with their rifles.

Most of them are European made.

Some are so complicated one needs a PH in stupidity to be able to just take the bolt out!

In fact, I have one that makes this impossible unless the stock is taken off!

Now please enlighten me what sort of genius designed a rifle like this??

Sako and Tikka are the only ones I see who still design decent rifles that actually WORK.

10 February 2025, 08:19

M.Shy

They are mostly all good, people just don’t practice enough handling and shooting

10 February 2025, 09:11

medved

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
I get many people coming here to shoot with their rifles.

Most of them are European made.

Some are so complicated one needs a PH in stupidity to be able to just take the bolt out!

In fact, I have one that makes this impossible unless the stock is taken off!

Now please enlighten me what sort of genius designed a rifle like this??

Sako and Tikka are the only ones I see who still design decent rifles that actually WORK.

they were designed to be proof from accident in not using using them and i do agree tikka are working even in our lovely conditions ...

10 February 2025, 10:19

Saeed

quote:
Originally posted by M.Shy:
They are mostly all good, people just don’t practice enough handling and shooting

That is a fact.

I never shoot my hunting gun except when loading ammo for it before a safari.

But, I shoot almost daily.

All sorts of rifles.

From air guns to Nitro Express doubles people bring here to shoot.

10 February 2025, 20:42

fairgame

The PH got in a couple of shots and they were not fatal. No doubt it happened quickly and he did the best he could. We were not there and the rest is conjecture.

11 February 2025, 00:51

eagle27

quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
The PH got in a couple of shots and they were not fatal. No doubt it happened quickly and he did the best he could. We were not there and the rest is conjecture.

Apart from a little discussion on the pros and cons of doubles versus bolt actions I think we are all in agreement that under the circumstances the PH did all he could to put the buffalo down and out.
We know from the well put together report that the clients rifle inexplicably failed at some stage and somehow, after the first shot from the rifle that wounded the buffalo, that is not conjecture.

After that it is all conjecture including whether even if the clients rifle had not failed, was the client good enough to have finished the buffalo off when on the sticks or under the charge.
The outcome may not have been any different.

12 February 2025, 00:09

desert dog

People who have hunted with Frank in the past claim that he always used a Montana Rifle chambered in 416 Rem Mag. If this is the case, the story about the "firing pin and bolt shroud" laying next to the rifle on the ground (as told by Uganda Authorities) is probably incorrect. If you are familiar with the M70/Montana action, you'd know that this is impossible if he was using that rifle.

Other than that, who knows what happened? Frank was a very old guy (almost 80). Is it possible that he didn't run the bolt and put another round in the chamber after his first shot; causing a failure to fire after the PH put him on the sticks the second time? Without actually seeing the rifle and the condition of the rifle, there are many possibilities, but everything is conjecture at this point.

Buffalo hunting is not a safe endeavor, and we all know that going in. RIP Frank, and best wishes for a speedy recovery for the PH.

12 February 2025, 01:00

505 gibbs

This is what happens when you let the Buffalo decide how it wants to die.

12 February 2025, 02:02

M.Shy

Could it be that buff slammed the gun with his hoof and that came completely apart?
Anyways, definitely crazy outcome

12 February 2025, 03:06

Live Oak

You do what you train to do. In the past a dead LEO was found after a shoot out with brass in his pocket. He saved his brass and did this every practice! In a high stress situation the client may have done what he practiced with out thinking! Shoot, take apart to clean! Sad happening, but that's why we do it! Sounds like the PH did his best!

12 February 2025, 05:34

Saeed

quote:
Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
This is what happens when you let the Buffalo decide how it wants to die.

That is not true, as far as the man who said is concerned.

He was a WIMP in capitals!

He NEVER went after a buffalo if it had gone into thickets.

He made sure the buffalo was wounded and lying right in the open - some suggested on PURPOSE!

So he could set up his Hollywood style cameras and walks up to it and kill it.

I have 12 year old shooters here who could do that without batting an eyelid!

12 February 2025, 06:13

lavaca

A very sad case for sure and we'll never know what happened for sure. Excessive cleaning seems unlikely unless the bolt was disassembled, but I can't imagine why anyone would do that on safari unless the rifle was dunked. I seldom clean during a hunt, although I have done routine cleaning if I shot a lot, or in places where it was dusty, or if I was hunting in the rains.

Someone suggested the hunter may have short stroked after the first shot. That seems to be a more plausible explanation. I did it once but fortunately with no adverse consequences.

12 February 2025, 06:19

Steve Ahrenberg

quote:
Originally posted by lavaca:
A very sad case for sure and we'll never know what happened for sure. Excessive cleaning seems unlikely unless the bolt was disassembled, but I can't imagine why anyone would do that on safari unless the rifle was dunked. I seldom clean during a hunt, although I have done routine cleaning if I shot a lot, or in places where it was dusty, or if I was hunting in the rains.

Someone suggested the hunter may have short stroked after the first shot. That seems to be a more plausible explanation. I did it once but fortunately with no adverse consequences.

The only cleaning I do is a bore snake every evening. When in CAR, the humidity had me wiping with a silicone cloth as well.

12 February 2025, 06:32

Saeed

Could the rifle got whacked by the buffalo horns?

And broken into parts so that firing pin and shroud come apart?

Funny the mention of short strokes is posted.

I get people shooting here who are not very experienced in rifle ghandling.

And some of them actually short stroke normal bolt action rifles.

They pull the bolt back, and as soon as the empty is ejected, they push it forward, closing the bolt on an empty chamber!!??

I can imagine this happening even more often if a straight pull rifle is used.

I know, I have seen it in action on a hunt, and so many times here in our range.

12 February 2025, 07:12

lavaca

Saeed,

I know better, but I short stroked on a buffalo in 2013 after the first shot. Fortunately, he was 150 yards away over open ground and I rectified the situation and put him down with the second shot, But if it had happened at point blank range with the buffalo coming, it could have been a serious problem. Never happened to me before or since.

12 February 2025, 07:20

lavaca

Steve,

I don't generally clean the bore every evening, but I always have a bore snake as well as a rod and jags. I put a full length rod in the bottom of my rifle case. I'll wipe the rifle down if it was dusty but not with silicone as if the surface is oily, it just collects more dust. In those situations, I'll just wipe off the dust dry. I do use an oily wipe if dust is not an issue and especially if it's raining.

12 February 2025, 20:24

Bockhunter

...was the hunter "Frank":
- an german hunter?
- an member of this great forum?

Thanks.
B.

12 February 2025, 20:28

Saeed

American

Mr. Frank Stuart Cox

Mentioned in the first page.

04 March 2025, 14:51

fulvio

This thread seems to have died a natural death as no further snippets of information have trickled in regarding the PH and his welfare and/or more light being shed on how that action dis-assembled itself, etc.

The whole episode raged briefly and burnt itself out like a Curtis bush fire.

04 March 2025, 15:10

larryshores

quote:
Originally posted by fulvio:
This thread seems to have died a natural death as no further snippets of information have trickled in regarding the PH and his welfare and/or more light being shed on how that action dis-assembled itself, etc.

The whole episode raged briefly and burnt itself out like a Curtis bush fire.

I am going with that same company in a few weeks. I’ll find out about the gun then.

04 March 2025, 15:35

Saeed

quote:
Originally posted by fulvio:
This thread seems to have died a natural death as no further snippets of information have trickled in regarding the PH and his welfare and/or more light being shed on how that action dis-assembled itself, etc.

The whole episode raged briefly and burnt itself out like a Curtis bush fire.

Lots of unanswered questions!

04 March 2025, 18:16

Safari2

Good news is that Trappe is back hunting now!

04 March 2025, 19:29

Saeed

quote:
Originally posted by Safari2:
Good news is that Trappe is back hunting now!

That is the best news about this incident.

05 March 2025, 02:51

chuck375

quote:
Originally posted by Steve Ahrenberg:
quote:
Originally posted by lavaca:
A very sad case for sure and we'll never know what happened for sure. Excessive cleaning seems unlikely unless the bolt was disassembled, but I can't imagine why anyone would do that on safari unless the rifle was dunked. I seldom clean during a hunt, although I have done routine cleaning if I shot a lot, or in places where it was dusty, or if I was hunting in the rains.

Someone suggested the hunter may have short stroked after the first shot. That seems to be a more plausible explanation. I did it once but fortunately with no adverse consequences.

The only cleaning I do is a bore snake every evening. When in CAR, the humidity had me wiping with a silicone cloth as well.

Do you put electrical tape over the muzzle. I always do when I'm hunting. I take it off when I get back to camp and run a cleaning patch through the bore once.