Horizon valued at USD$11.1 million:

LINK

I was just about to post. 40 cows a year, and 55 inches!

If it pays it stays.

I call BS on this.

If you follow the buyers and sellers you see it is little about a buffalo but about political corruption.

The bubble prices paid are by businessmen for animals purchased from politicians.

Mike

I agree with you Mike.

Ultimately, these are sold to hunters. How many of these would have to be sold to break even?

I hope they insured this critter.

quote:

Originally posted by larryshores:
I agree with you Mike.

Ultimately, these are sold to hunters. How many of these would have to be sold to break even?

I hope they insured this critter.

The bribe is paid and the favor done. The buff is little more than the conduit. In south east asia it is the hawala with a chit of paper, in China it is rolex watches that are cashed in in macau and in south Africa it is over bred and well fed chattle.

Mike

He's a beautiful bull. Well fed and will probably eat out of your hand.

A nice looking bull for sure

I've hunted RSA twice and I haven't seen anything even close to this critter on the game ranches.

Are big bulls like this being harvested in RSA - that is, presumably the offspring bulls like this?

Bulls like this have been around RSA for quite some time...where are the results?

Holy shit! Be needing a weirdo to "milk" that bull daily.
When you think of it, that's a lot of money for a pair of balls.

This is what a real cash flow from breeding business model looks like

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...4e32e4b0c66bae5b6930

An ANC politician selling a buffalo to white billionaire businessmen is a nice way of paying a bride. Kind of like when Hillary Clinton had a one time winning trade with Tyson food in financial futures.

One of the South African hunting guys should come and inform us if buffalo/wildlife sales are subject to tax in South Africa.

MIke

I cannot see how this can be sustained in the long term.

I agree with Jaco. The economics just don't work. First, this animal is off limits obviously until he starts shooting blanks. (And then, he has a name. I won't shoot anything with a name. Plus, at that point, he'd probably come running to anyone with a blue rubber glove and a jar of Vaseline).

Second, most serious buffalo hunters won't hunt a high fenced operation and there is no way anyone is going to invest in his semen and then turn the calves loose into a free range area. It will be at least 10 years before he generates shootable offspring. You could earn some serious money on $11 million in ten years.

Third, almost half of the offspring will be cows, meaning it will take another several years to see a trophy bull.

Finally, trophy fees for buffalo in South Africa are ridiculously high as it is. If the lucky customers of the owner of this bull double or triple them to recoup their investment, it will make the entire proposition cost prohibitive.

He is pretty, but I sincerely hope they don't start doing to buffalo what folks are doing to whitetails in the states.

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I agree with Jaco. The economics just don't work. First, this animal is off limits obviously until he starts shooting blanks. (And then, he has a name. I won't shoot anything with a name. Plus, at that point, he'd probably come running to anyone with a blue rubber glove and a jar of Vaseline).

Second, most serious buffalo hunters won't hunt a high fenced operation and there is no way anyone is going to invest in his semen and then turn the calves loose into a free range area. It will be at least 10 years before he generates shootable offspring. You could earn some serious money on $11 million in ten years.

Third, almost half of the offspring will be cows, meaning it will take another several years to see a trophy bull.

Finally, trophy fees for buffalo in South Africa are ridiculously high as it is. If the lucky customers of the owner of this bull double or triple them to recoup their investment, it will make the entire proposition cost prohibitive.

He is pretty, but I sincerely hope they don't start doing to buffalo what folks are doing to whitetails in the states.

Spot on

quote:

Originally posted by lavaca:
I agree with Jaco. The economics just don't work. .

Exactly. The reason being that it's not about hunting.
and quit frankly , who cares ? so what ? if they make money from breeding game with no definite end user. Is it going to back fire ? Probably.
It has no influence on the free range Buffalo hunt prices in South Africa. As far as I can tell it has had no influence on the fenced Buffalo hunt prices in my area either.
It might be different in other areas of South Africa where they have been introduced.

Repugnant on every level. The worst always gets worse.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
If it pays it stays.

Exactly!! We keep preaching sustainable use. Here is a huge positive to conservation . The more people who Invest in wildlife the more areas in Africa will be converted back to wildlife refuges.

quote:

Originally posted by Jaco Human:
I cannot see how this can be sustained in the long term.

Jaco this has nothing to do with hunting. This purely for game breeding projects and stud breeding.3-4 generations down the line these young bulls might be available to hunting concessions as new breeding bulls, grow out and be hunted.

If they put that bull to 30 cows and get a 50% spread and sell at current prices of 4mill per each that's a minimum of 120 million return on the second year.

If some of those young bulls show potential they could go as much as 10 bar?

Those buggers will make their money back guaranteed. They think out the box and take calculated risks.

Rupert bought that bull for 44bar and I know for a fact it paid for itself in the first year. That bull is 1:30 drive from me and I know the manager .

quote:

Originally posted by T.J.:
Horizon valued at USD$11.1 million:

I'll bet he's got a handsome insurance policy to match the price tag.

quote:

Originally posted by leopards valley safaris:

quote:

Originally posted by Jaco Human:
I cannot see how this can be sustained in the long term.

Jaco this has nothing to do with hunting. This purely for game breeding projects and stud breeding.3-4 generations down the line these young bulls might be available to hunting concessions as new breeding bulls, grow out and be hunted.

If they put that bull to 30 cows and get a 50% spread and sell at current prices of 4mill per each that's a minimum of 120 million return on the second year.

If some of those young bulls show potential they could go as much as 10 bar?

Those buggers will make their money back guaranteed. They think out the box and take calculated risks.


Rupert bought that bull for 44bar and I know for a fact it paid for itself in the first year. That bull is 1:30 drive from me and I know the manager .

Dave, I agree that they are purely for breeding purposes. Why I do not think it will be sustainable is that it started of and prices stated increasing drastically. Now there are only a few people who can afford to buy animals like this. It is also not only the cost of the bull, the breeding cows are also quite expensive although not as expensive as the males, you need good quality females with the right genes, you need vet services and a lot of dedicated well qualified staff to run the operation. There are a limited market which will get saturated one or other time as there are only so many people with the money to buy in.

To ensure growth, many breeders are now offering investment opportunities where one can buy share in a bull, a breeding project etc. Ordinary people in the street is now hearing about the large profits that can be made and with almost no knowledge starts investing, the more people that start investing the more the profits grow, which will cause a rise in the share price you pay. People will start borrowing money to invest in this schemes and put their life savings at risk. Then the time will come when the prices starts going down and people start losing lots of money.

It will most probably go the same route that the daffodils went in Holland. Prices shot up to quickly and the profits are to high over a very short period of time, that is not good investment value over the long term. If you jump in, make your profit and leave, you will most probably make a lot of money, but in the long term I do not think it will be sustainable.

The very very old bulls might one day be hunted, but I will definitely not hunt a buff like that, even if I get it for free.

Jaco, If A investor invest with no knowledge of what ever he invest in he deserves what ever comes his way! no one is forced to invest in anything it is by own choice!

quote:

Originally posted by leopards valley safaris:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:
If it pays it stays.

Exactly!! We keep preaching sustainable use. Here is a huge positive to conservation . The more people who Invest in wildlife the more areas in Africa will be converted back to wildlife refuges.

Agreed, but where are the results? These big breading bulls have been around for long time. This is not new.

Does anyone have some photos of RSA bulls in this size range and are the offspring these massive bulls.

I haven't seen or heard of any such bulls being killed, but someone else may know of positive results.

quote:

Originally posted by INTREPID SAFARIS:
Jaco, If A investor invest with no knowledge of what ever he invest in he deserves what ever comes his way! no one is forced to invest in anything it is by own choice!

You are 100% correct, but greed is a bastard. I know, I am also a qualified financial adviser and I have seen it happen. The people in the street are making very uninformed decisions because of greed. Just take a look at how many people lost their money in pyramid schemes. I rest my case

Greed! You see it regularly in Southern Africa.

quote:

Originally posted by Use Enough Gun:
Greed! You see it regularly in Southern Africa.

Yes, in various scheming money-making forms.

I couldn't read all the post so maybe someone addressed this possibility earlier. Could this just be a fake price? When I was in the registered cattle business there were times when you would see an exceptionally high price paid for an animal either at private treaty or at auction. It was usually just made up to enhance the value of the other cattle that the seller had and thereby that of new owner's cattle also. Yes, deals can be made behind the scenes with the auction company's blessing; it makes them look good too.

Also, some of you have seen how freaky big whitetail bucks have gotten in U.S. deer farms. Could that same thing happen in SA buff breeding farms?