Which is the most dangerous of the DG?

20 September 2002, 18:50

Rusty Gunn

quote:
Originally posted by Tim Helgeson:
Suluuq,

I believe you are correct (either hippos or crocs). However I believe the great majority of those killed by hippos & crocs are just going about their daily business (bathing, washing clothes, etc.) and are not hunting.

You are correct though, Will's question did not ask which is the most dangerous of the DG "to hunt".

Tim

Well, I sorta felt he did refer to the one's being hunteed (big five), but I thought I'd mention this anyway.
I would think maybe elephant, is most dangerous. ~~~Suluuq

20 September 2002, 18:57

<Peter V>

A bunch of my colleagues and professional friends discussed this same topic on a few occassions.

We had a far bunch of different views to start with and these were directly relevent to individual experience.

However, if I am correct in interpreting the question as the most dangerous game to hunt; and hunting (in our terms of reference at least) is walking, stalking and closing on the animal on it's turf then the leopard got our vote (shooting it from a blind is a different story).

Obviously the rest of the big 5 are and can be dangerous, chuck in the hippo too for that matter, but if hunting in thick thorn bush, jesse or long grass and you are after the likes of Elephant, Buffalo, Lion, Rhino etc you will mostly have a pretty good idea of where they are at and especially so should the animal decide to charge, it is usually accompanied by a fair degree of noise (it will get your attention, scare the bejabbers out of you BUT at least 99% of the time you will know the direction to face).

Our friendly leopard will not always voice it's intent, will explode into action quitely and be all over you in a flash (and like a bad rash, it does this with little noise and is so very fast.

Regards

20 September 2002, 20:00

<ovis>

J.A. Hunter's choice for the most dangerous of the five was the Leopard. I think all of the Five could teach you a stern lesson if you don't show them the proper respect.

Joe

21 September 2002, 01:51

Shultz&larsen

robert mugabe. he "kills" most people

21 September 2002, 02:03

Nickudu

Will,
I wish I had the money to answer your question.

21 September 2002, 02:04

<George Hoffman>

Genntlemen,
this is always a good campfire discussion.
After many years of being scared by all of them.
I think it comes down to the two cats. The leopard is small and can concel himself in almost
nothing. Most of the time he will grunt, but not always. Still I think he comes out in second place
because he is easier to stop. I have been able to stop everone with 000 buckshot The lion is another
situation. He will tell he is coming in no uncetain terms. but stopping him is a much tougher matter. It has to be by straight shooting
in a vital place. If you hit him any place else
it will not deter him one bit. If he does get to
you he is more likely to do serious damange in a
very ahort time.
Simba gets my vote for the Most dangeerous of the
Big Five.
George

21 September 2002, 03:00

Atkinson

Simba gets my vote also, mainly because most folks survive the Leopard attack and several men of great strenth and fortatude have been known to kill old spots with their bare hands or so it has been scripped.....A lion will bite off your arms, legs or head in one nibble...I contend the female to be the most deadly after the attack begins.

I believe the tracking Lion hunt to be the most dangerous hunt in the world....

21 September 2002, 03:04

D Humbarger

The one that kills you.

21 September 2002, 03:38

<allen day>

I vote for lion as most potentially dangerous.

AD

21 September 2002, 03:43

jeffeosso

the poacher. not only will he not take his game cleanly, he'll leave a musket ball in the buffalo/simba/hippo that is going to attempt to put you into the ecosystem, severly demoted, of course

21 September 2002, 04:33

GeorgeS

I have hunted leopard and buffalo; of those two, the leopard is more likely to get to you in a charge (quicker, smaller target, attacks from ambush), but the Cape buffalo is more likely to kill you.

Of all the Big 6, I expect an enraged elephant is most likely to kill you if it reaches you. Only a brain shot will drop them, and how many of us can place a shot into an elephant's brain while it is in full charge? [Eek!]

Maybe George Hoffmann can tell us which of the Big 6 is the toughest to stop in a charge?

George

21 September 2002, 04:36

500grains

Third world dictators.

21 September 2002, 06:12

MacD37

Though I have not taken either of the cats, I have seen severel taken! I have been on two Elephant hunts as well, though they were not my hunts. The very dangerous game I have taken in Africa are the Buffalo, and Hippo, both on dry land, face to face!

I believe, however, the elephant is the most likely to "KILL" you if he gets to you, followed closely by the hippo,and the Cape Buffalo. Many folks survive Leopard attacks,and a few less on Lion attacks, though a little worse for the ware! Like Ray, and George, I am scared to death by the African lion. Additionally, I agree with Ray about the lioness, being the most dangerous, and most likely to charge unprovoked! I believe, Like George, the LION has no peer when it comes to "GETTING" to you, after being shot many times. The leopard has a reputation of being particularly dangerous when wounded, and will, at least, 50% of the time bite at least one member of the party,if not many, on the follow-up. As far as being easier to stop, or turn, I would say the ele is easist to TURN with almost any solid head shot, giveing you a little time for shooting. A LION, Buffalo, or Hippo will not turn, you kill him, or he will get you, PERIOD!

Again if the animal gets to you:

Elephant, no survival

Buffalo, low chance of Survival

Hippo, VERY low chance of survival

Lion, If you survive you will not be in very
good shape, and will not win many beauty
contests

Leopard, Very few are KILLED by leopard, but
more people are bitten by them than
the others

I will not include the Rhino since I do not consider the White Rhino to be a worthy member of the dangerous game name, and the blacks are off the sheet for hunting! [Cool]

21 September 2002, 06:22

<George Hoffman>

GeorgeS
I may not be the best judge on these matters as I
have had little trouble turning or stopping buffalo or elephant, In fact, I think elephant may be the easier if the two. I must qualify that some what. If an ele. is in real thick jess and is pushing down small trees to get to you, then it becames a matter of backtracking (if you can)
to let heim break out into an opening. If not you will just haave to hit him as many times as
you can and hope for the best. However, a open area with a charge is farily simple if you stay calm. Buffalo are more tenacious and will usually follow through with a charge. But again I have had little trouble in stopping one.
The leopard will lay low and come from close range
and if he gets past your defences can hurt you in
a hurry. I know one chap In zim that has been mauled three times by leopard. He used his 7x57
in every case. I still stand by my 870 pump with
000 nickle plated buckshot. The lion on the other hand can come a great speed and with the mane standing out roaring is very impressive he may weave side and come low to the ground. The most common mistake when shooting is over shooting
you may be aming for the head but he is coming under the shot. if you hit the spine then you are
in luck, if not and you are off side then he may be in lap before you can get off the next round.
It is always to have extra help on wounded lions
if any available. of the few real charges I.ve
had to face by myself, were lions that were badly wounded and were somewhat handicaped when chargineg so I had little problems. I think most young ph,s have the same doubts and fears as
we all do when facing our first charges. there is
always that doubt,"how will I hold up under the charge" after two or three experiences then we all
gain more confidence and is a little easier from
then on. I will still stick with the lion as the most likely to do you in. Africa is full of grave markers "killed by lion" although hippo elephant leopard and buffalo have done there share. One more thing about buffalo. Every year we here of someone killled or hurt by by buffalo
When you consider there is probably 100 buff shot for evey lion then there is simply more chance
for thing to go wrong on a buffalo hunt.
George

21 September 2002, 07:16

GeorgeS

Thanks, George. Where should one aim to turn a charge by elephant? How about on the buff?

George

21 September 2002, 07:32

JohnTheGreek

Mosquitoes - Something like 6 million people per year die globally of malaria. Not much of a hunt for them though . . . SLAP! [Smile]

JohnTheGreek

21 September 2002, 07:46

<George Hoffman>

GeorgeS
The only way I know to turn a elephant is a head shot. As a rule it will be straight on, and the head shot is all you have. Chest shots will kill, but not quickly enough. When shooting at an elephants skull it will depend on the angle of
his head and that will change the closer he gets/
the classic shot is one that will line up with a
line through his ear holes. depending on the head angle and distance the shot can be placed slightly
below the eyes or above the eye. Every client I have taken elephant hunting I have purposely taken them up to an elephant that I did not intend
to shoot and have a detailed discussion on shot placement. I prefer a hear shot for sever reasons
it is a large area and much easier for people to locate most everyone has read so much about the brain shot that is what they think they have to do. If you have a group of bulls and you brain one
you may have a large problem on your hands. however
if you heart shoot one they will all run and the heart shot bull will simply drop out or drop dead.
this way you don;t have to contend with the others.
Charging buffalo, is a diffferent matter. sometimes if there are more than two of you the bull will usually line up on one person. I have shot several like this using the junction of the neck and shulder this is uaually a deadly shot and
has proved effective. If he is straight on and some distance away (time for a second shot) put one at the base of neck in the chest some times this will do the trick but don;t coun on it. Be ready with the second one below the boss or on the bridge of the nose, depending on the angle of
the head and the height of the shooter. I am rather short so I do not have that option. I have had buffalo take 11 and 13 shots but not charging
again, I have not had any great problems stopping

wounded buffalo. Where most problems happen is in
tall grass or rivereine bush where he lies down and you step on him with no time for accurat shooting. I have been lucky in the past of staying out of those traps. I hope I can continue
to do so.
George

21 September 2002, 09:47

<Norbert>

A situation to become dangerous, the animal first must attack. Normally all DG are used to run away from a hunter approaching. The exception is hunting ele cows in a herd. A charge is very likely, therefore this is the most dangerous "normal" hunt.
I donï¿½t refer to wounded or otherwise agitated animals.

21 September 2002, 13:11

Mickey1

Jaguar

Bigger, stronger, faster than a Leopard and when it hits it stays on it's pray until it's dead.
Like a Brown Bear it is the ultimate predator in its niche, has no natural enemies and is afraid of nothing. It can take down a fully grown Water Buffalo or Range Bull by itself

Hunted with dogs it will not tree but lay up for the hunter in the grass and attack without a sound.

In Northern Argentina and Brazil maneaters are still quite common.

The ultimate DG hunt would be the Sasha Semiel Jaguar Hunt with a spear. Maybe a Great White with a spear gun (or a Marlin 45-70) [Big Grin]

For someone else, not me.

21 September 2002, 14:00

Ku-dude

I think that what I am about to write is a summary of what George Hoffman has said or written:

Buffalo probably kill more hunters than any of the Big Five because more people hunt him; if they get to you, they can really hurt you, therefore, statistically they are the biggest killers of hunters;

Injured Leopard probably maul more because they are frequently hunted and under the conditions in which they are hunted its easy to wound them and there is high motivation to bag wounded animals; therefore, they injure the most hunters but don't kill them;

An aroused lion's charge is hard to stop and can kill you with a bite or swipe of a paw if not stopped; therefore, in terms of chances to be charged and results if they get to you, they are numero uno in terms of the animal to be afraid of;

Elephant, if they charge and get to you, your toast, but they will not come after you like lion and are easier to turn; but watch after the females!

Rhino are no longer a real issue too few of the Black variety who were the wild and wooly ones, which leave Crocs and Hippos. Crocs in the water and Hippos on land are formidable and there are a lot of them. They probably kill more people than the other animals mentioned, but not hunters.

In terms of the most numbers killed, mosquitos as a vector for disease, are the most dangerous. And lastly, AIDS results in more deaths, but it kills indirectly by reducing immunity until some other bug kills you! Ku-dude

22 September 2002, 03:04

<Mike Dettorre>

1. Hunting armed men
2. Lion

I have no experience with number 2

24 September 2002, 06:13

<Bjorn Klappe>

Will,

you are asking a question which can not be answered easily. It depends if the animal is wounded or not.

For an unwounded animal I would say the hippo. If you happens to be between him and the water when he detects you, you better beat the world record in any distance.

For a wounded animal I would say leopard. It is true as people has said above, a leopard will seldom kill you but will hurt you quite a lot. After a leopard attac you will prefer to leave home after dark not to scare kids. A leopard attac without a warning and at such short distance he will reach you in one leap. You have one shot only, and if you miss...
A wounded lion is more difficult to stop but he usually give you a warning before he charges. Use enough gun and leave the shotgun in camp if you are after a wounded lion! People who recommed shotguns for wounded lions do not know what they are talking about or are suicide candidates.

A charging wounded elephant can be put down with a brain shot but I would prefer to break his shoulder. It is a bigger target and he can not run on three legs. He is anchored and the rest is a piece of cake.

My experience with rhino is nil - I had the chance once for black rhino but did not take it - something I will regret to my death.

Buffalo? No way Jose. Charges are rare. It seemsbuffalo charges is common if you read the magazines and books but if you compare the number of buffalos killed each year compared whith the rest of the big five I would say the buffalo will end up at the bottom of my list

Bjorn

24 September 2002, 09:42

<Paul Machmeier>

Great post, always pondered that question myself. While having taken 5 0f 7 DG animals including the two cats; I never had any incidents except a slight hippo charge and some buffalo stampedes. So cannot even comment on a meaningful experience. Took stock, however, in what George Hoffman and Atkinson had to say and this seems to coincide with a lot of the experienced hunters of the past. Probably would be my best quess of the worst situation.

My feeling is that when DG hunting it is wise to get the best, biggest caliber that you can shoot really well and practice, practice, etc.