The hunting shows -- timing ?

17 February 2016, 10:14

Jan Dumon

Hi Everyone ,

I've just returned from my yearly marketing trip to the States. I was there from before DSC till after SCI. I had a good trip and got to catch some sea run Brown Trout in Patagonia , Argentina together with good friends to boot

However , For us outfitters doing both these shows its a long trip. Many outfitters are of the opinion that DSC should be later in the month. This would help them greatly. Being away from your responsibilities from new year till around the 10th of February is no joke. Furthermore Flights are generally more expensive so early in the year.

My question is , do the people attending the DSC show feel that its a little too early in the year also ? Its right after new year and Christmas. Would it not be a more convenient show to attend later in January ? Maybe more successful ?

There was not a single exhibitor at DSC that I talked to that did not share my sentiment. These included outfitters from other parts of the world as well as " non outfitter " exhibitors

I like the DSC show , support it . Maybe moving it later on in the month could make it even more successful? and help all the exhibitors making it what it is.

Your thoughts ?

17 February 2016, 11:19

lavaca

I agree with you. DSC cuts into my hunting season. I almost always have to forego a quail or duck hunt to attend. That dead week in between costs all of you a ton of money as well.

17 February 2016, 12:35

Lin Stanton

I agree Jan it would make a whole lot more sense having it two weeks later. Closer to the SCI show in Vegas. I would think more operators would then do both shows instead of doing just the SCI show.

17 February 2016, 18:09

Capt. Purvis

Third week of Feb after Harrisburg and SCI. Move it to the date of the Africa show that was held in Raleigh the past three years. There is no way that show can continue. Our hunting season is still going during the current date of DSC which keeps some of us from attending.

17 February 2016, 19:11

jdollar

I agree, Jan. It is too soon in the new year, adding a great deal of cost to outfitters attending both shows.

17 February 2016, 19:26

Dave Fulson

I know that both DSC and SCi have to book dates YEARS in advance with the Convention Centers. It is not an easy situation to change dates as Convention venues are booked every weekend of the year, in every major city it seems. Not an easy fix for any of the bigger shows to move, or line up dates that do not overlap each other.

17 February 2016, 19:36

larryshores

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
I know that both DSC and SCi have to book dates YEARS in advance with the Convention Centers. It is not an easy situation to change dates as Convention venues are booked every weekend of the year, in every major city it seems. Not an easy fix for any of the bigger shows to move, or line up dates that do not overlap each other.

Yup. It is a major undertaking to change dates. Even if they could, I suspect it would be years before they could.

17 February 2016, 19:52

bwana cecil

quote:
I know that both DSC and SCi have to book dates YEARS in advance with the Convention Centers. It is not an easy situation to change dates as Convention venues are booked every weekend of the year, in every major city it seems. Not an easy fix for any of the bigger shows to move, or line up dates that do not overlap each other.

I remember us having this conversation a few years ago.
It seems that available dates for the conv. centers was the reason then also.
These dates are booked years in advance.

17 February 2016, 21:48

Use Enough Gun

Some outfitters are still here in the States until sometime in March.

Now, that's one hell of a long time to be marketing, and very expensive! (Unless you subtract the free room and board, hunts and dinners that some of them are getting from their former clients-with no daily or other rates being charged by the former clients to the visiting PHs in those situations!)

Ah, it's great to be family!

17 February 2016, 23:21

Matt Graham

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
I know that both DSC and SCi have to book dates YEARS in advance with the Convention Centers. It is not an easy situation to change dates as Convention venues are booked every weekend of the year, in every major city it seems. Not an easy fix for any of the bigger shows to move, or line up dates that do not overlap each other.

Well we've all been telling DSC for years that it is too early. I haven't been able to attend the last couple of years. January sucks for most in the southern hemisphere - it is summer holidays, even one extra week with family is nice.

17 February 2016, 23:33

Jan Dumon

quote:
Originally posted by Matt Graham:
quote:
Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
I know that both DSC and SCi have to book dates YEARS in advance with the Convention Centers. It is not an easy situation to change dates as Convention venues are booked every weekend of the year, in every major city it seems. Not an easy fix for any of the bigger shows to move, or line up dates that do not overlap each other.
Well we've all been telling DSC for years that it is too early. I haven't been able to attend the last couple of years. January sucks for most in the southern hemisphere - it is summer holidays, even one extra week with family is nice.

Did you ever get any positive feedback from them on the matter Matt ?

17 February 2016, 23:51

Matt Graham

quote:
Originally posted by Jan Dumon:
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Graham:
quote:
Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
I know that both DSC and SCi have to book dates YEARS in advance with the Convention Centers. It is not an easy situation to change dates as Convention venues are booked every weekend of the year, in every major city it seems. Not an easy fix for any of the bigger shows to move, or line up dates that do not overlap each other.
Well we've all been telling DSC for years that it is too early. I haven't been able to attend the last couple of years. January sucks for most in the southern hemisphere - it is summer holidays, even one extra week with family is nice.

Did you ever get any positive feedback from them on the matter Matt ?

Only that it is hard to change, hard to get later dates, etc, etc. I mean there has to be a desire to change it.

As much as I would love to be at Dallas, seeing your smiling face Jan. I can break even just the same at home and still get to go fishing or play tennis with my kids.

18 February 2016, 03:58

jdollar

Well nothing ever changes if changes aren't made. DSC. could move to a later date IF they applied now for say, 2020 or beyond.

18 February 2016, 08:23

Jan Dumon

Its a pity they did not start to do something about it earlier. I talk to more and more outfitters that , like you Matt , cannot be convinced to do the DSC show anymore. Next year will be the same. I guess if they sell the same or more booth space they are happy. If booths are an indicator. I just always thought that DSC was more Dynamic , and had a better connection with the exhibitors , than SCI. Maybe hearing from DSC on the matter would be best.

18 February 2016, 10:36

Matt Graham

quote:
Originally posted by Jan Dumon:
Its a pity they did not start to do something about it earlier. I talk to more and more outfitters that , like you Matt , cannot be convinced to do the DSC show anymore. Next year will be the same. I guess if they sell the same or more booth space they are happy. If booths are an indicator. I just always thought that DSC was more Dynamic , and had a better connection with the exhibitors , than SCI. Maybe hearing from DSC on the matter would be best.

There is a great connection with all concerned mate - but money talks and bullshit walks - especially when the fish are biting.

Bloody damn shame about Argentina that....

18 February 2016, 15:04

larryshores

While I sympathize with you all, I think you all are underestimating the difficulty of utilizing a convention center in a major city in the US. It isn't like making dinner reservations.

18 February 2016, 17:36

Jan Dumon

We understand the situation Larry.

The question is if DSC is happy to have it at this time of the year , and if not , if there is any attempt made to move it forward in years to come.
Not really much we can do if they don't intend doing it , but it would serve many of their members well and maybe make for a better convention , which is what we all want.
It would be nice to hear from more hunters if they would prefer it to be later also. Might be mostly the exhibitors finding it an awkward time .

18 February 2016, 18:49

Matt Graham

quote:
Originally posted by Jan Dumon:
We understand the situation Larry.

The question is if DSC is happy to have it at this time of the year , and if not , if there is any attempt made to move it forward in years to come.
Not really much we can do if they don't intend doing it , but it would serve many of their members well and maybe make for a better convention , which is what we all want.
It would be nice to hear from more hunters if they would prefer it to be later also. Might be mostly the exhibitors finding it an awkward time .

Concur!!

Ah - to think back to the old Market Hall days...

18 February 2016, 19:58

INTREPID SAFARIS

Guys it would be great if they could do it, I fly home after the Houston show, and then back for SCI.

18 February 2016, 23:43

Use Enough Gun

Where's Karl Evans on this thread. He should be the one responding.

19 February 2016, 04:27

jdollar

quote:
Originally posted by larryshores:
While I sympathize with you all, I think you all are underestimating the difficulty of utilizing a convention center in a major city in the US. It isn't like making dinner reservations.

That's why you start now to change dates in 5-6 years. If nothing changes,then nothing EVER changes.

19 February 2016, 18:38

K Evans

Many good comments, here. In reality there will always be people unhappy about the dates of our show or any other organizations show. As several have stated the dates are booked years in advance (through 2020 for DSC, I believe)and even though DSC holds the largest convention in Dallas and brings more money to the DFW economy than every other event except the Byron Nelson Golf Tournament, it is a HUGE undertaking in most cases to move dates once the dates are set. But, having said that we are working on getting the dates moved deeper into January on a couple of upcoming shows and it looks like there is a very good chance of this happening. In the past, the DSC convention has often been the week immediately prior to the SCI show and that didn't work well for some of the exhibitors either, especially those whose booth had to be shipped from Dallas to SCI due to the time involved in shipping.
To answer the supposition that DSC is happy selling the same or more booth space, the decision has been made not to increase the size of the show any further, so no booth space will be added. That should take care of selling more booth space and we currently have deposits on a large percentage of booths by returning exhibitors (close to 70%) and there is a waiting list of almost 600 possible exhibitors (not all are outfitters but the vast majority are and of that majority most are from the southern hemisphere) so apparently a lot of exhibitors think it is worth coming to Dallas, even if the dates don't suit them perfectly.

We are always looking to improve our show and suggestions from our exhibitors (and those who would like to be exhibitors) are taken seriously...hence our efforts to move some of the future dates.

Just out of curiosity though, Jan and Matt...what would you consider "perfect dates" for our convention?
Thanks for the comments!

19 February 2016, 18:58

Jan Dumon

Thanks for your input Karl.

I would be happy to have it a week later if not 2 weeks later.

As far as the waiting list from the Southern hemisphere is concerned , you're right , they are willing to do it at the current dates , so are we , and we do. It doesn't mean that we like it though. And honestly , would you trade those 600 new exhibitors for 600 that you have now ? unlikely.

It is comforting to know that DSC is working moving the dates. This is what we expect of them. Good for them.

As for all the outfitters bitching at the shows about the dates but not willing to chip in on the thread , its always safer on the sideline boys

Hunting regards

19 February 2016, 23:47

Matt Graham

Yeah Karl, even a week later would be much better. Obviously it is easier said than done and then there will be conflicts with other large shows, particularly Houston when it moves to the new larger venue - and SHOT Show of course (mainly for the gun companies) plus the sheep shows. The week before SCI is not going to work either - with DSC running clear through to Sunday. The week after SCI would be logical to me - and that would truly be a blessing!!

20 February 2016, 00:05

Jan Dumon

quote:
Originally posted by Matt Graham:
Yeah Karl, even a week later would be much better. Obviously it is easier said than done and then there will be conflicts with other large shows, particularly Houston when it moves to the new larger venue - and SHOT Show of course (mainly for the gun companies) plus the sheep shows. The week before SCI is not going to work either - with DSC running clear through to Sunday. The week after SCI would be logical to me - and that would truly be a blessing!!

ah yes , the sheep show. An Aussie would remember that one......

20 February 2016, 00:44

Matt Graham

quote:
Originally posted by Jan Dumon:
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Graham:
Yeah Karl, even a week later would be much better. Obviously it is easier said than done and then there will be conflicts with other large shows, particularly Houston when it moves to the new larger venue - and SHOT Show of course (mainly for the gun companies) plus the sheep shows. The week before SCI is not going to work either - with DSC running clear through to Sunday. The week after SCI would be logical to me - and that would truly be a blessing!!

ah yes , the sheep show. An Aussie would remember that one......

Kiwis are the sheep specialists mate - Aussie's aren't fussy.

20 February 2016, 01:20

K Evans

Jan and Matt, thanks again for the input. Like I said, we listen and try to do what we can to make it better. I'll post something as soon as we know about possibility of moving dates as I mentioned above.

20 February 2016, 04:36

infinito

Karl, Thanks for putting on a great show this year yet again!

I would love to have the show a week later than what it is at the moment, but to be honest, with Houston the weekend after (now going bigger)and then also from next year we are going to do the ISE Denver show the week before SCI, it makes it really difficult to just say "Yes, I agree". I know quite a few other outfitters that have worked a marketing schedule out between the two "big ones" to keep them busy. In a perfect world you guys can move one week up in January, Houston can move one week up and then we can have SCI......that way we are all covered nicely.

In the end we and our families are used to getting on a plane late in December and be away for two months. But that's just us.

Charl van Rooyen
Owner
Infinito Travel Group
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charl@infinito-safaris.com
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21 February 2016, 21:35

larryshores

Charl:

There are other shows than those three. They all fall in roughly the same 6-7 week period. Maybe less. A move might be harder than it seems.

21 February 2016, 22:16

infinito

Very true!

21 February 2016, 22:34

Aaron Neilson

quote:
Originally posted by K Evans:
Many good comments, here. In reality there will always be people unhappy about the dates of our show or any other organizations show. As several have stated the dates are booked years in advance (through 2020 for DSC, I believe)and even though DSC holds the largest convention in Dallas and brings more money to the DFW economy than every other event except the Byron Nelson Golf Tournament, it is a HUGE undertaking in most cases to move dates once the dates are set. But, having said that we are working on getting the dates moved deeper into January on a couple of upcoming shows and it looks like there is a very good chance of this happening. In the past, the DSC convention has often been the week immediately prior to the SCI show and that didn't work well for some of the exhibitors either, especially those whose booth had to be shipped from Dallas to SCI due to the time involved in shipping.
To answer the supposition that DSC is happy selling the same or more booth space, the decision has been made not to increase the size of the show any further, so no booth space will be added. That should take care of selling more booth space and we currently have deposits on a large percentage of booths by returning exhibitors (close to 70%) and there is a waiting list of almost 600 possible exhibitors (not all are outfitters but the vast majority are and of that majority most are from the southern hemisphere) so apparently a lot of exhibitors think it is worth coming to Dallas, even if the dates don't suit them perfectly.

We are always looking to improve our show and suggestions from our exhibitors (and those who would like to be exhibitors) are taken seriously...hence our efforts to move some of the future dates.

Just out of curiosity though, Jan and Matt...what would you consider "perfect dates" for our convention?
Thanks for the comments!

Like many, I am a firm believer/supporter in DSC - much more so than other organizations. Frankly, I think DSC is the best! But this is not a new concern Karl, its been on-going for years. I think folks realize dates are booked years in advance - but couldn't DSC start trying now to book the convention later in January - after 2020? Making it closer/more convenient for those international guys needing to do both DSC and SCI?

The early January dates are horrible for everyone, but especially the international travelers. I hunt/guide until Dec. 15th - 20th each year. Trying then to get everything ready for DSC is a monstrous headache - especially during the holiday season. I know I'm just one guy, but a lot of others share the same sentiment. I hear it all the time that exhibitors would like to see DSC in the 3rd or 4th week of January.

Just some FYI - but know, I love what DSC is doing!!

Thank you,