Is this Leopard a Shooter?

17 October 2012, 02:34

This is the only leopard we had feed for any length of time in the Bubye Conservancy last month when I was hunting with Shaun Buffee. The cat fed nightly as long as we kept the zebra fresh. Notice he has a tracking collar as he had been trapped and collared by a researcher doing a 4 year study from Cambridge.

Also, guess his weight and length. We know what both were in April of 2012 when he was collared.

17 October 2012, 03:05

Aspen Hill Adventures

Good question! I assume it would be a legal kill. I guess shooting this Tom ends the guy's study though.

Now for me (and just for me), if there are more males in the area to hunt, I'd personally pass on this guy. No harm intended to someone else who would take him.

Adding, just because he is collared does not make him someone's pet either...

17 October 2012, 03:28

Bwanna

I should have clarified, the researchers were and are fine with taking a collared cat. In fact, part of the study is the effect of sport hunting on the population, so they want the taking of a cat to be done without regard to the collar. My understanding is there are about 30 - 40 cats in the BVC that are collared.

17 October 2012, 03:36

PSmith

110 to 120 pounds?

Paul Smith
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17 October 2012, 03:39

A.Dahlgren

it looks smallish and I also would like to try for another. 110 pounds and 6.6 ...I have no idea

17 October 2012, 03:47

tygersman

Smaverage cat.

17 October 2012, 04:30

Matt Graham

Is it a tracking collar??

or does it have a bell on it??

just kidding (not the first bit though).

Do the researchers really believe that hunters arent going to be influenced by the sight of the collar??

17 October 2012, 05:41

safari-lawyer

Not for me, but I've been more than lucky with leopards.

If you have a few under your belt, then no.

If you've been on six leopard hunts and this is your first opportunity at a male on bait, I'd say hook him.

17 October 2012, 05:47

465H&H

Having done research on collared animals, I can assure you that if the collar is visable to the hunter it will affect the hunters decision. Although it can affect it positively or negatively. The researcher needs to determine how much and in which direction that bias leans.

I too think it is a medium sized cat.

465H&H

17 October 2012, 07:33

Hunt4

The collar might look good on a duck call lanyard by the bands.

17 October 2012, 07:45

Emory

Sorry to learn there are a large number of Leopards in the Bubye with collars. Got a great tom there a couple of years ago and have been keenly interested in getting back for another.

Discovering that many there are collared, I'm now concerned about trying the Bubye again. Damn...

17 October 2012, 08:00

graybird

If my PH said he was big enough to take, I would have no hesitation shooting that leopard. Being a research scientist myself, the taking of a collared animal being studied needs to be a portion of the scientific protocol to ensure that data set is as normal as possible.

17 October 2012, 08:29

retreever

He is not a big cat, but a young male body is still not to muscular.

Mike

17 October 2012, 08:39

Leopardtrack

I agree with Mike and would estimate this Leopard at 100-110lbs tops.

quote:
Originally posted by retreever:
He is not a big cat, but a young male body is still not to muscular.

Mike

17 October 2012, 09:14

Emory

Regarding the original question, I've hunted rather hard for Leopard for 25 days on two safaris. I've only seen three in daylight and maybe 7-8 at night. Thanks to a great PH, the one I ultimately shot went 17+ green and over a year later was 16 15/16. I would not be interested in this one which even I can tell from the trail cam photos appears noticably thinner and smaller than the one I lucked out with...

My guess is the collar would be difficult to discern at night, but I would not knowingly shoot any collared animal regardless of the size. About 32 years ago I saw the fresh hide of what should have been a great Grizzly trophy from the East Fork of the Little Delta in Alaska. A collar that had probably been in place for many years had completely worn the hair off the back and sides of the neck and the resulting strap of bare hide was greatly thickened by what seemed to be scar tissue. The hunter said he didn't realize the collar was there when he shot, but he was sick at the hide condition and I have no idea what he did with his "trophy"...

17 October 2012, 11:44

Caracal

quote:
Originally posted by retreever:
He is not a big cat, but a young male body is still not to muscular.

Mike

yes looks young to me. I wouldn't shoot an collared animal, unless you get green light from the involved scientists.

17 October 2012, 12:08

fujotupu

IMO any collared animal should be left alone until the researchers are done with it and it should be THEIR responsibility in removing the collar and returning the animal to its original/natural state.

17 October 2012, 13:47

tendrams

quote:
Originally posted by Hunt4:
The collar might look good on a duck call lanyard by the bands.

LOL!

17 October 2012, 14:45

Bwanamich

Not so sure he is a young cat as most are intimating

I personally wouldn't shoot because of the collar but I seem to be going against the grain here, in saying that he is a trophy sized Tom probably in the 130lbs category?

17 October 2012, 16:16

Grafton

Researchers do not always remove collars, more likely they just run out of money and the collars rot away. The researchers want unbiased data as much as is possible, thus if you choose not to shoot a leopard with a collar (that you otherwise would have shot), you are harming the research, not helping it.

I could care less about the collar but would be a little concerned about all the hair rubbing off around the neck.

He does not look very big to me.

17 October 2012, 18:18

MARK H. YOUNG

Personally the collar would put me off and I'd pass but if this leopard is your first opportunity to take a leopard in most places you'd be silly to pass on him.

Mark

17 October 2012, 18:42

D. Nelson

I seem to recall a collared leopard shot in Botswana about 6-7 yrs ago. The PH lost his license for a year or so. (He didn't see the collar and his hunter shot before he told him to.) Are there different laws in this regard from country to county?

Best regards, D. Nelson

17 October 2012, 19:50

Dave Fulson

I think he is still a youngish,but quickly maturing male that I would think is in the 115-120 pound range. If you have a cat, pass him. If it is your first hunt, or a hunt in a so-so area, might be a good idea to shoot. Not saying I would not shoot a cat with a collar, but it would bother me, I must admit.

17 October 2012, 20:02

shakari

You might like to consider using sizing marks on the branch to make things easier for yourself next time.

I usually use two little pieces of reflective tape 1.2 metres apart and placed where you expect the cat to settle so you can work out the length of the cat from tip of nose to root of tail.

21 October 2012, 00:11

Bwanamich

quote:
Also, guess his weight and length. We know what both were in April of 2012 when he was collared.

So what were they?

21 October 2012, 06:45

LittleJoe

I personally have not hunted Leopard and for myself; I know that the first legal leopard my PH said to shoot, I would be pulling the trigger. That is just me. More focused on a bigger one after I had one in the salt.

22 October 2012, 01:05

Kathi

D.

Is this the incident you referred to in your post?

Collared leopard

Posted by: Shumba on Nov 9, 07 at 4:20am Posted in: Africa & the Middle East

The Voice (Francistown)
3 July 2007

A leopard - collared for research purposes - has been shot by a foreign client on safari in the Sankuyo concession (NG34). A Botswana-licensed professional hunter, who was with the client, has been suspended from hunting in the area for the rest of the season and "in the foreseeable future," says the Botswana Wildlife Management Association (BWMA).

The professional hunter, who has not been named, told his Maun office and Tico McNutt of the Botswana Predator Conservation Programme about the shooting.

The hunter told the BWMA that neither he nor his client saw the collar on the leopard, and would not have shot it had they seen it. The matter was referred to the BWMA executive committee, which submitted a written report to the Department of Wildlife and National Parks (DWNP).

The BWMA has strongly condemned the hunting of collared animals on moral and ethical grounds and any professional hunters found guilty of intentionally killing a collared animal faces suspension from the BWMA and may lose their professional hunter status.

The BWMA says it "recognises the value and support given to the industry by the Botswana Predator Conservation Programme and other researchers in Botswana , and will ensure that all members comply with requests from researchers to monitor, support and encourage all research efforts ."

22 October 2012, 01:59

Kathi

http://darwin.defra.gov.uk/doc...AR2%20-%20edited.pdf

Link to the leopard study in the Bubye.

22 October 2012, 02:29

D. Nelson

quote:
Originally posted by Kathi:
D.

Is this the incident you referred to in your post?

Collared leopard

Posted by: Shumba on Nov 9, 07 at 4:20am Posted in: Africa & the Middle East

The Voice (Francistown)
3 July 2007

A leopard - collared for research purposes - has been shot by a foreign client on safari in the Sankuyo concession (NG34). A Botswana-licensed professional hunter, who was with the client, has been suspended from hunting in the area for the rest of the season and "in the foreseeable future," says the Botswana Wildlife Management Association (BWMA).

The professional hunter, who has not been named, told his Maun office and Tico McNutt of the Botswana Predator Conservation Programme about the shooting.

The hunter told the BWMA that neither he nor his client saw the collar on the leopard, and would not have shot it had they seen it. The matter was referred to the BWMA executive committee, which submitted a written report to the Department of Wildlife and National Parks (DWNP).

The BWMA has strongly condemned the hunting of collared animals on moral and ethical grounds and any professional hunters found guilty of intentionally killing a collared animal faces suspension from the BWMA and may lose their professional hunter status.

The BWMA says it "recognises the value and support given to the industry by the Botswana Predator Conservation Programme and other researchers in Botswana , and will ensure that all members comply with requests from researchers to monitor, support and encourage all research efforts ."

Kathi: That's is exactly the incident. It happened early in the year we hunted out of Sankuyo. Thanks for digging it out.

Best regards, D. Nelson

22 October 2012, 09:43

whelenite

Where's the OP??

Bwanna, inquiring minds want to know. What is the age and size of the leopard in question?

23 October 2012, 01:35

Bwanna

Sorry all for not following up more quickly on this. I've been hunting mule deer (frustrating) for a couple of weeks.

Here's what we were told, when he was collared in March or April he was 120 pounds and an amazing 7'4" in length. He'll be a toad in a couple of years.

23 October 2012, 01:57

shakari

I never understand why anyone shoots a collared animal.

At the very least, that collar almost certainly represents a considerable amount of research for someone and taking the animal without the permission/agreement of the researcher/research team must be just so bloody frustrating for them...... and that in turn doesn't do any of us any good from the public perception point of view.

23 October 2012, 02:24

tendrams

As mentioned above, if the research includes possible hunting off-take as an element of the analysis, to refuse to take an animal only because of the collar skews the research outcomes. Assuming it were legal, I would take a collared animal under the above conditions. I seem to recall a big fuss here on AR about a big collared elephant being taken not too long ago. In my mind, 70+ pounds and permission from the game scout or parks department means jumbo goes down!

23 October 2012, 02:26

Hog Killer

The collar will also, probably ruin the fur on the neck. It would not be repairable by the taxiderist.

Keith

24 October 2012, 06:33

lavaca

Fluffy! You found Fluffy!

Just joking; the collar thing. Do wonder about the effect it would have on the cape/hide from the taxidermist's perspective.

25 October 2012, 07:44

pigslayer

quote:
Originally posted by lavaca:
Fluffy! You found Fluffy!

Just joking; the collar thing. Do wonder about the effect it would have on the cape/hide from the taxidermist's perspective.

the taxidermist wouldn't be thrilled if it was my trophy. i'd want the cat mounted with the collar on.

27 October 2012, 23:48

Desfountain and jones Ltd

As a professional hunter , I do not mean to be an authority on leopards and hunting them, I always use the rule that has worked for me for years , if you have to think about it even after seeing nuts , then you should get out of the blind and never come back , my presumptions are that seeing that a trail camera was used a blind was never built when you have a Good PH trust him and his judgement . Herewith your answer , He looks like weight wise he is around the 90 lbs mark possibly knocking on 3 years . And who knows how long.