Would you shoot a poacher

04 December 2005, 22:31

hamdeni

Jarrod,

I agree with you 100%.

Hamdeni

quote:
Originally posted by Jarrod:
For those of you who would just outright kill a poacher if it wasn't in self-defense. You obvioulsy have nor morals what-so-ever. He may not be as wealthy as you, but that is not how a man is judged anyway. If he is not that type who would kill you then in God's eyes his life is just as valuable as yours not matter how much material things he owns.

I have been in combat in Iraq and seeing someone get killed even someone that you have never saw in your life is a very unpleasant sight. Even worse is when you see one get killed in front of you that is your friend.
The only way I would kill anyone is in Self-Defense period. In case some of you have forgotten about these. Here is somehting you might should read, and for this thread pay extra special attention to #6.

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

2.Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.

3.Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.

4.Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.

5.Honor thy father and they mother.

6. Thou shalt not kill.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

8. Thou shalt not steal.

9. Thous shalt not bear false witness aganinst thy neighbor.

10. Thou shalt not covet.

04 December 2005, 23:47

LV Eric

armed poacher-yes
snare poacher-no

05 December 2005, 00:12

Jarrod

For all of you who say that you would shoot a poacher just because he was armed. That's nonsense.
Think about this. Say you live in the western united states and you didnt have enough money to put food on the table for whatever reason, and you were out trying to kill an elk out of season so that you could eat, you havent pointed your weapon at anyone nor showed any aggression of any kind and someone just up and shoots you because you are trying to eat.
Think about that now.

05 December 2005, 00:29

700 nitro

some of us here have no religion............. this is directed at those who would qote the bible on this thread.

05 December 2005, 00:58

dbltap

Jarrod To use the Old Testament to say that killing is wrong is just flat out funny. You not only show that you don't grasp the issues involved in translation of biblical documents you also show a remarkable lack of knowledge regarding old testament values.

Your last post is even funnier. Do you grasp that the only reason that many hunting areas have people in/near them is that hunters have placed an economic value on the animals there? If you remove the economic value irresponsibly i.e. poaching you are potentially condemning the people who live there to a slow death. That make you sleep better?

Kamo Gari My point was that many here ramble on about how others are supposed to feel in their little world. My only suggestion to them is that if you have taken a life, justifiably, and feel bad about it perhaps you should look into a different line of work or not place yourself in situations where it may happen in the future. I have done so and will probably do so again. When I feel bad about it I know I will have done somthing wrong.

05 December 2005, 01:01

lawndart

This is a great thread!
Some diversity of opinion accompanied by moderately strong feelings.

In the end, I believe that how any of us acts in this type of situation will depend on how we have been trained/conditioned over the years.

A very good book on this subject is:

On Killing
by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
ISBN 0-316-33011-6
Back Bay Books/Little Brown Publishers
$15.95 (trade paperback)

LD

05 December 2005, 01:22

interboat

I sure like that rug idea.

05 December 2005, 01:39

Aziz

No I will not shoot any person who is not a direct threat to my life or the Lives of the people around me.

Aziz

05 December 2005, 02:49

LV Eric

quote:
Originally posted by Jarrod:
For all of you who say that you would shoot a poacher just because he was armed. That's nonsense.
Think about this. Say you live in the western united states and you didnt have enough money to put food on the table for whatever reason, and you were out trying to kill an elk out of season so that you could eat, you havent pointed your weapon at anyone nor showed any aggression of any kind and someone just up and shoots you because you are trying to eat.
Think about that now.

i wouldnt go out of my way to shoot aqn armed poacher but they arnt in the bush armed because they are looking for food they are there for 2 things ivory and rhino. they are dangerous and not to be taken lightly.

a week after i left camp 3 poachers were shot by parks, alan was one ridge away when they heard the shots, i was hunting in the area the week before and we saw tracks the scout told us they were there and to keep our eyes open.

after spending the time i have in the bush and seen what i have seen and heard the storys from alan who i trust not to exaggerate them, i would shoot one if i had to, i would not ambush one etc. but in africa your playing for keeps it aint an elk hunt in montana.i wouldnt feel good about though.

05 December 2005, 04:22

500grains

quote:
Originally posted by 700 nitro:
some of us here have no religion.............

I am in that camp as well.

05 December 2005, 04:26

ForrestB

quote:
Originally posted by 500grains:
quote:
Originally posted by 700 nitro:
some of us here have no religion.............

I am in that camp as well.

But I hope you have morals.

05 December 2005, 04:30

500grains

quote:
Originally posted by ForrestB:
quote:
Originally posted by 500grains:
quote:
Originally posted by 700 nitro:
some of us here have no religion.............

I am in that camp as well.

But I hope you have morals.

More than most of the devoutly religious people I know.

05 December 2005, 05:07

Kamo Gari

quote:
More than most of the devoutly religious people I know.

Uh oh, heretic alert! Right after He is done punishing the Catholic skinner-priests, the countless other Godless heathens and savage sinners of the world, you're sure to get yours, 500. Maybe.

Another member of the non-denominational non- prescribing faith types here.

Helmet and flak vest ON. This thread has the potential to turn ugly right quick now...

05 December 2005, 06:09

Jarrod

quote:
Originally posted by dbltap:
Jarrod To use the Old Testament to say that killing is wrong is just flat out funny. You not only show that you don't grasp the issues involved in translation of biblical documents you also show a remarkable lack of knowledge regarding old testament values.

Your last post is even funnier. Do you grasp that the only reason that many hunting areas have people in/near them is that hunters have placed an economic value on the animals there? If you remove the economic value irresponsibly i.e. poaching you are potentially condemning the people who live there to a slow death. That make you sleep better?

Kamo Gari My point was that many here ramble on about how others are supposed to feel in their little world. My only suggestion to them is that if you have taken a life, justifiably, and feel bad about it perhaps you should look into a different line of work or not place.
yourself in situations where it may happen in the future. I have done so and will probably do so again. When I feel bad about it I know I will have done somthing wrong.

So are you saying that it is ok to just go out here and shoot someone? Im talking about killing people not animals. If you actually believe that it is ok to kill someone over killing animals then you obviously have no morals.

So are you saying when gangs just shoot someone for no reason that it is ok?
If it was ok to kill someone we wouldnt have much of a need for prisons would we?

05 December 2005, 06:16

Jarrod

What's the deal? Have you got so bored with Elephant, Cape Buffalo etc. that you want to start an open season on humans now?

Never in my life will I ever put the value of an animal above that of a human.

05 December 2005, 07:03

dbltap

Jarrod-

When you finish high school and move out in the world, where real people make real decisions that they have to live with, I will be happy to talk to you.

05 December 2005, 07:10

Jarrod

quote:
Originally posted by dbltap:
Jarrod-

When you finish high school and move out in the world, where real people make real decisions that they have to live with, I will be happy to talk to you.

If you would of read one my post about 2 or 3 back. You would have read where I have been in combat and actually saw people killed. So would that qualify me for being out of high school and having to make real decisions?

When you remove your face out of your fourth point of contact I will be happy to talk to you.
Just in case you are unsure what your fourth point of contact is, it is your Ass

05 December 2005, 07:19

dbltap

Jarrod

You, and your guardians, should be righteously pissed at your high school for granting you a degree.

05 December 2005, 09:38

NitroX

This thread is starting to remind me of those endless topics on many deadbeat gun forums where 9 out of 10 topics are about self-defence and the participants always seem very eager for the chance to shoot another human being.

Not what shooting and hunting is about for me at all.

05 December 2005, 12:11

Marterius

quote:
Originally posted by Jarrod:
Never in my life will I ever put the value of an animal above that of a human.

Jarrod, while I never (in a peacetime situation) would shoot at a human execpet in self-defence, I can assure you that if the house was on fire, I would rescue my dog before I rescued some of the posters in this thread.

Regards,
Martin

05 December 2005, 23:04

Duckear

quote:
Originally posted by Steve:
The shoot on site thread got me wondering. Hypothetical question...

If asked by a PH or landowner to shoot an armed poacher, posing no immediate threat, would you do so?

-Steve

It is not my job, nor my moral responsiblity to enforce game laws in the US or any other country. I would kill in self defense, but not if there was no immediate threat. In fact, I would retreat. This IS a vacation, isn't it? I have no desire to enforce some corrupt, third world gov't game laws and don't want to find out how they define self-defense in their kangaroo court system. I would be afraid to go to the embassy, since then it may be more expedient to be handed over to the locals. Nor do I care to give my life for some PH's farm or concession and his future income.

If I wanted to play the part of merc, I will book through Soldier of Fortune, not SCI or Cabela's.