quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Furthermore, we need to castigate any outdoor communicators who espouse this service. I wonder who will be first to write about it. Gee, let me guess...

Lol! I will bet you are right.

quote:

Originally posted by sdirks:

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
Not much shocks me, but this does. Remember Mr.Evarts is the fellow who called us all 'Douche Nozzles'. The worst, I mean worst move a convention driven organization could make. A slap at every customer they have in the booking business,

Ah, yes. I had forgotten about him! Brilliant move by SCI!

I believe the post about Evarts being part of this was posted as a joke.

Not even SCI is stupid enough to hire that D-bag.

That was a joke.

Well, crap!!! I just attended my first SCI convention (loved it) and now those rascals do this. Oh well, at least my membership renewal showed up so I can return it and let them know exactly why I won't renew.

At least I feel comfortable renewing by DSC membership. Guess I'll take the missus to Texas in 2015.

I keep looking at the calendar thinking this must surely be April 1st.
Oh well, guess we all know who will have the best booth space at $CI.

Let me make a few other comments. First, I contacted a friend of mine who is on the Board of SCI. He assures me that this new entity will NOT be exhibiting at the convention .

I have read the documents I received several times. Frankly, I think they are poorly written. However , it seems to me that SCI MIGHT be saying that they are going to do the following:

1- Market the members who do not attend the convention.

2- Market to non-members who will ultimately become members .

3- Market at the chapter fund raisers where many of the companies at not represented.

Honestly, I am not sure that is what they mean but it is possible my reading is right.

Would outfitters be hurt? Probably not. Would booking agents be hurt? Absolutely as would a number of other ancillary service providers.

At this point, I do not like it. However , clarification by SCI might temper that a bit .

Personally, I am extremely disappointed . After our Washington visit, I thought about getting more involved with SCI. I think differently now .

I wouldn't be surprised if SCI didn't include a clause that they would recieve a commission for any hunts booked by SCI members with outfitters weather booked at the convention or not.

Money hungry SOB's.

I see this as an all-time new low standard for SCI

Maybe they should change their slogan to First for Money

As a SCI member who is involved in the local chapter I do not want SCI selling hunts at our chapter fundraiser.

The only hunts I want and should promote are those outfitters who have made a donation to our club. Our loyalty needs to be to the donor.

National is getting 30% of our profits.

Will their actions reduce donations to the chapters?

I guess we will wait and see what happens but this gives me a bad taste in my mouth.

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Fulson:
SCI FIRST FOR HUNTERS - LAST FOR CUSTOMERS !

Sorry Dave, you are wrong.

SCI FIRST FOR THE ME, EM, ME, CROWD. LAST FOR HUNTERS.

They have become so blind because they have been getting so much complaints about their blackmails, their tiny mental ability to reason has been over loaded, and they thing EVERYTHING they hear is POSITIVE!

Trouble is, they will get away with it.

Outfitters and PHs have been complaining for so long about SCI, but hardly ever take action.

Not much different from voters and the government really.

I generally support SCI, but not on this.

Not LAST FOR HUNTERS, rather Last for animals and wild places.

Can't wait for the SCI cheerleaders to jump in about the benefits of competition in the market place that this will promote.

quote:

As a SCI member who is involved in the local chapter I do not want SCI selling hunts at our chapter fundraiser.

The only hunts I want and should promote are those outfitters who have made a donation to our club. Our loyalty needs to be to the donor.

Ooops! .... No donation no promotion?

quote:

Originally posted by tanks:
From the original letter it seems like they want to be the clearing house/marketing arm for outfitters and agents rather than be in direct competition with them.

Not much different than a lot of similar trade organizations. Question is whether it will work or not.

They could also use Sri-Lanka or Philippines based call centres to reduce costs-better increase the SCI profit marGin....

This seems to be an excellent reason for local chapters to do what Dallas did years go--begin independent organizations. I dropped SCI years ago and have never had a regret except I miss the local Alaska gents at the meetings. Should the Alaska SCI chapter drop out and change their name to Alaska Safari Club and keep 100% of their fundraising, I will be in line to join, volunteer my time, donate books, write the newsletter/magazine and whatever else I can do. The Alaska organiation is great, the national organization sucks.
Cal

It might be a good idea to change their name completely now. Why not drop the INTERNATIONAL part of it, and rename it SAFARI CLUB FOR THE SELF GLORIFYING, CANNED TROPHY COLLECTING HUNTER.

It will fit right in with their actions.

I stopped renewing my membership a number of years ago after attending several SCI events in Colorado. I now support DSC despite living in CO. As a college professor, "shrink", and retired military officer, my evaluation of the SCI's antics makes me wonder about their supporters. Maybe the same people who support Obama?

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
It might be a good idea to change their name completely now. Why not drop the INTERNATIONAL part of it, and rename it SAFARI CLUB FOR THE SELF GLORIFYING, CANNED TROPHY COLLECTING HUNTER.

It will fit right in with their actions.

Gee, Saeed. We actually agree on something. LOL
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
It might be a good idea to change their name completely now. Why not drop the INTERNATIONAL part of it, and rename it SAFARI CLUB FOR THE SELF GLORIFYING, CANNED TROPHY COLLECTING HUNTER.

It will fit right in with their actions.

Gee, Saeed. We actually agree on something. LOL
Cal

Did the sun rise in the west?

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:

quote:

As a SCI member who is involved in the local chapter I do not want SCI selling hunts at our chapter fundraiser.

The only hunts I want and should promote are those outfitters who have made a donation to our club. Our loyalty needs to be to the donor.

Ooops! .... No donation no promotion?

Correct, as it should be. Our local chapter greatly appreciates outfitters making a donation. Many of us are small business people and self employed andwe know where donations come from: the bottom line or out of your pocket. The donors allows our events to be profitable; allows us to do local work and share the proceeds with the SCI Foundation.

I am no expert when it comes to chapter fundraisers but my perception from talking to very successful chapters is that they have strong relationships with their donors.

Not only may they be friends with the donor but members of the chapter hunt or are customers of the donors.

Will national efforts affect this relationship? Are all donors to local chapters also donors to national? I do not think so on the latter. Will this effect local chapter proceeds?

I guess what national can argue is that they can offer the outfitter/donor greater access to more hunters by leveraging access to chapter members but if they are taking 15% off the top does it become too expensive to donate a hunt to national, buy booth space, other cost and then pay 15% commission?.

Jim

Larry Shores - See the latest email I just sent you! Make no mistake my friend, SCI's full intention is to provide a FULL SERVICE agency in direct conflict / competition with hundreds of current members, exhibitors and DONORS!!! They have used some fancy wording here to beat around the bush, but its very simple to see what's going on - and several others have confirmed it as well.

1. They will book hunts - in direct competition/conflict with members/supporters/donors
2. They will book travel - in direct competition / conflict with members/supporters/donors
3. They will offer license/tag application services - in direct competition with members/supporters/donors
4. A select group of "first tier" outfitters will be represented by SCI Outdoors, just as all of us agents do. Thus any outfitter/member/donor/supporter, of which there are several thousand, that is not selected as a "first tier" outfitter will find themselves fighting for the same clients as SCI Outdoors is booking as well. DIRECT CONFLICT OF INTEREST, as are all the examples listed above!

Aaron, I don't know if I've ever agreed with you more! SCI never seases to amaze me.

REALLY GUYS SCI WAS STARTED AS A RICH BOYS CLUB IT GREW FOR AWHILE AND DID SOME GOOD THE CJ SOLD IT IT BECAME ANOTHER RICH BOYS CLUB THE RECORD BOOK IS FIXED FOR RICH BOYS YOU BUY YOUR WAY IN THAT BOOK. YES GO TO THE CONVENTION ITS FULL OF RICH OLD MEN YOU DONT SEE MANY YOUNG PEOPLE I WQS A PAST CHAPTER PRESIDENT IT HAS GONE IN THE WRONG DIRECTION

I have slept better ever since dropping SCI some years ago and going to DSC ...

This means the DSC will get even bigger,...if they choose.

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
This seems to be an excellent reason for local chapters to do what Dallas did years go--begin independent organizations. I dropped SCI years ago and have never had a regret except I miss the local Alaska gents at the meetings. Should the Alaska SCI chapter drop out and change their name to Alaska Safari Club and keep 100% of their fundraising, I will be in line to join, volunteer my time, donate books, write the newsletter/magazine and whatever else I can do. The Alaska organiation is great, the national organization sucks.
Cal

Well as of Thursday I'm president elect of the Alaska chapter. I tend to think this is a poor idea. I'll voice that and see what it gets me.

Brett

It's pretty obvious to me that the way they'll choose their 'chosen outfitters' will be by selecting the companies that are prepared to 'donate' the highest commission.

Good old SCI never fail to disappoint.

Why I anyone surprised about this is a wonder to me.

For so many years, SCI has been screwing the hunting industry with their "donations" requirement.

And using those same "donations" to compete with the same people who have "donated" the hunts at the convention.

They all kept quiet.

SCI got greedier and greedier.

Don't usually say much in these topics.
My view , that don't mean much

Top tiers outfitters Can cut the advertising in the SCI AD MAG.That's all it has become 80% ads.
Saving 10's of thousands, Just pay it to SCI Outdoors now on commission basis. The fewer big high tier full page ads will increase the prices for the 1/4 page 1/3 little guy.And make even a smaller issue. Can it get any smaller? I see chapter newsletters with more things to read. Now your advertising IN your COMPETITIONS Magazine.

I'll bet the LIST, Will appear. I see this coming ..If one of the members on the LIST that SCI outdoors will make, mailing list, member list etc. If the hunter even contacts the operator themselves the commission will have to go to SCI. Even on his or her next hunt. I see it in the taxidermy industry. PH / Outfitter sends hunter gets commission and on everything he EVER brings the studio as long as he stays a client for the studio.

I see them pushing sales for the highest donors of free hunts to them.It's not how good they are or what they can produce it's who gives the most I'll sell them. It's the old saying. Whomever has the most money wins.

I feel for these guys on here that are small fish , doing great for their clients and making a living toughing it out everyday on a budget. A really big shark has just been let loose the water.

I see SCI Outdoors getting free space at local chapters for advertising that costs them nothing as they will use a free hunt given to them. Local Members will man the booths and do it for free to just be able to be a part of the new exciting THING.

Oh, it's a win / win for SCI and the Mega Donors, The High Tier Hunting Outfitters. You guys have just been moved to another level. Great for you and the bottom line don't get me wrong, Business is Business, But to use the resources of a Non-profit and for free with this much
marketing power is just wrong and I question the ethics of it !
The rest and the members of SCI, the small booking agents and the small PH's just got thrown under the bus for money.

As a past supporter of SCI this action is a big disappointment. As an aside I do find it interesting that the parent org is disliked but the local chapters are ok, sort of like (USA members) congress is not so good but our representative is great.

quote:

Originally posted by BrettAKSCI:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
This seems to be an excellent reason for local chapters to do what Dallas did years go--begin independent organizations. I dropped SCI years ago and have never had a regret except I miss the local Alaska gents at the meetings. Should the Alaska SCI chapter drop out and change their name to Alaska Safari Club and keep 100% of their fundraising, I will be in line to join, volunteer my time, donate books, write the newsletter/magazine and whatever else I can do. The Alaska organiation is great, the national organization sucks.
Cal

Well as of Thursday I'm president elect of the Alaska chapter. I tend to think this is a poor idea. I'll voice that and see what it gets me.

Brett

Brett - And as you obviously know, the last 2 years in a row we have donated a hunt to your local SCI chapter. Something I have done because you and several other members are friends of mine, and because we too try to help out as well.

Because of the association, and SCI's intention to also work the 192 local chapters - I will no longer donate a hunt to any local SCI chapter. I think you are gonna find a lot of others who will be doing the same as well. Its unfortunate, but its reality forced upon us by SCI - and their ever long reaching arm of greed!!!

Sorry my friend!!

Please forgive me for my post about the N.R.A.
How do Congressmen and high rollers get drawn for hunts in Whittington?
I think S.C.I. and N.R.A. are just a money making business

I have been a life member for a long time. A very long time. SCI's actions or Inactions as the case may be have pissed me off from time to time. Often seriously .

I went to Washington with SCI. I liked what they were doing. I thought about getting involved more.

This matter has totally erased any thought of getting more involved. The only reason I don't quit is I want to go to the convention.

They have really screwed up this time.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Billsan:
Please forgive me for my post about the N.R.A.
How do Congressmen and high rollers get drawn for hunts in Whittington?
I think S.C.I. and N.R.A. are just a money making business[/QUOTE

The NRA has to cultivate relationships with Congressmen. After all, it is the congressmen they need to influence . Not in the same book as SCI in my opinion .

SCI Outdoors is merely a symptom of a much deeper problem, being the mindset of the decision makers at SCI who thought they could pull this off.

Stopping the SCI Outdoors venture is merely putting a band-aid on the festering wound that is the corruption of the SCI Big Wigs.

But, hey, it's a good start.

quote:

Originally posted by Texas Blue Devil:
This means the DSC will get even bigger,...if they choose.

Good point TBD...DSC will continue to provide an open market venue for our exhibitors to market their services and a venue for our members and attendees to have many options from which to choose, but will not have a large increase in exhibitors.

Karl

quote:

Originally posted by Billsan:
Please forgive me for my post about the N.R.A.
How do Congressmen and high rollers get drawn for hunts in Whittington?
I think S.C.I. and N.R.A. are just a money making business

I agree expect the NRA is a single focus money making business. That single focus is gun rights. The guys running the NRA get paid a nice cushy salary but their sole focus is gun rights. They put gun rights (their bread and butter) over the gun industry. The NRA in a way is paying say $25 bucks a year - $5 goes to administrative expense, the cushy job, and $20 to political lobbying for gun rights. The guys with the $5 derived cushy job know its there because of gun rights.

The SCI seems much less clear with all these donated hunts, conventions ect. Now booking and travel services. The NRA offers services like insurance to gun clubs - but that is there to forced membership by insuring a narrow niche no for profit insurance company would. I am a NRA member cause I need to be if I want to use my range.

For $ effectiveness I trust NRA not SCI.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by K Evans:

quote:

Originally posted by Texas Blue Devil:
This means the DSC will get even bigger,...if they choose.

Good point TBD...DSC will continue to provide an open market venue for our exhibitors to market their services and a venue for our members and attendees to have many options from which to choose, but will not have a large increase in exhibitors.

Karl

Karl,

Please keep DSC the way it is. Don't force membership on anyone wanting entry and keep entry at a reasonable price so if someome wants to bring their kids and family to the show its not like doing on a disney vacation.

Also at DSC with the AR private room - we are the inner circle

Mike

Interesting that not a single SCI cheerleader has supported this ridiculous move.

quote:

Originally posted by Aaron Neilson:

quote:

Originally posted by BrettAKSCI:

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
This seems to be an excellent reason for local chapters to do what Dallas did years go--begin independent organizations. I dropped SCI years ago and have never had a regret except I miss the local Alaska gents at the meetings. Should the Alaska SCI chapter drop out and change their name to Alaska Safari Club and keep 100% of their fundraising, I will be in line to join, volunteer my time, donate books, write the newsletter/magazine and whatever else I can do. The Alaska organiation is great, the national organization sucks.
Cal

Well as of Thursday I'm president elect of the Alaska chapter. I tend to think this is a poor idea. I'll voice that and see what it gets me.

Brett

Brett - And as you obviously know, the last 2 years in a row we have donated a hunt to your local SCI chapter. Something I have done because you and several other members are friends of mine, and because we too try to help out as well.

Because of the association, and SCI's intention to also work the 192 local chapters - I will no longer donate a hunt to any local SCI chapter. I think you are gonna find a lot of others who will be doing the same as well. Its unfortunate, but its reality forced upon us by SCI - and their ever long reaching arm of greed!!!

Sorry my friend!!

Brett, my mate:
Just think of all you could do if AK kept 100% of the fundraising and complete control over its actions. What does AK get from SCI in return? Not being sarcastic, I just don't know.
In the late 1990s I was at SCI. With all their hype of fair chase and ethics they support canned hunts (trophy elk in Colorado on a 10 1/2 acre ranch) and any and all for the almighty dollar. The SCI trophy book was made for simple minded folks who want to go to South Africa and get "ten animals in ten days all guaranteed to make the book". The whole organization is a greedy dishonest joke and a black spot on the true hunters of this forum and the world.
Cal
PS. Even though we may disagree on SCI, after today I think you make the best damn burgers in Alaska. I suggest you drop being a doctor and open a burger joint.

This is just insane.