The Accurate Reloading Forums
Will, don't look!! Another which rifle question.
06 March 2005, 21:57
mark65x55Will, don't look!! Another which rifle question.
I know you don't like these type of questions
But there aint nothing to hunt right now and I don't have anything better to do this morning.
So for everyone else heres the setup.
A hunt in Namibia (not that I've booked anything, I'm still dreaming at this point) for,
leopard
eland
kudu
zebra
Heres the rifles and scopes I have.
winchester 270wsm with leupold 3.5-10x40
winchester 300wsm with leupold 3.5-10x40
winchester 338win with leupold 2.5-8x32
winchester 375h&h with leupold 2.5-8x32.
So which would you take?
I think you could hunt all of the animals listed with the 300wsm or the 338win. The 375 may be a bit much for the leopard, but its my new toy and I'd like to take it. So I'm leaning towards taking the 300 loaded with some 180gr noslers for the lepard and the 375 with some barnes xts for everything else. Thoughts???
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06 March 2005, 22:17
AtkinsonJust take the .338, it will do anything the 375 or the 300 will do...I have all three and the .338 is usually the one I pick short of buffalo and I have killed a few buffalo with it..Ranges can be a tad long in Namibia and a 210 Nosler at 3005 FPS will reach out an touch them and have enough bullet to lay them low...Thats my pick....the others will work also.
Ray Atkinson
Atkinson Hunting Adventures
10 Ward Lane,
Filer, Idaho, 83328
208-731-4120
rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com
06 March 2005, 22:21
mark65x55Ray, hope your feeling better!
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06 March 2005, 22:25
surestrikequote:
Originally posted by mark65x55:
I think you could hunt all of the animals listed with the 300wsm or the 338win. The 375 may be a bit much for the leopard, but its my new toy and I'd like to take it. So I'm leaning towards taking the 300 loaded with some 180gr noslers for the lepard and the 375 with some barnes xts for everything else. Thoughts???
Mark,
My chice would be a tie between the .338 and the .375 as both are pretty darn simular in killability and tajectory. If it were me I'd go with my .375 and 270Gr triple shocks @ 2800FPS plenty flat enough and they hit like thors hammer.
'
Now to address your comment on the .375 being a bit to much for leopard. What are you worried about? It won't do much pelt damage with the right bullet in fact less than a hot .270 or a .300 will do. So what's the problem you worried about killing that cat too dead?
I thought you just asked this a few days ago?
.375 H&H all the way.
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Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.
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and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR
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If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go.
06 March 2005, 22:47
mark65x55Will,Will,Will..... I said don't look
and I don't have anything better to do this morning.
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06 March 2005, 22:56
mark65x55quote:
Originally posted by surestrike:
Now to address your comment on the .375 being a bit to much for leopard. What are you worried about? It won't do much pelt damage with the right bullet in fact less than a hot .270 or a .300 will do. So what's the problem you worried about killing that cat too dead?
270gr 375 bullet seems like overkill for a 120 pound cat.
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06 March 2005, 23:06
HunterJimMark,
You will want the .375 or the .338 for the eland, these guys take some shooting. Yes, you can kill them with lessor calibers, but everything has to go just right. If you are after a trophy, your only shot may not be the "just right" shot.
Your 32mm objective scope is on the margin for leopard at night, I would swap it for one of the 40 mm objective scopes.
You do get longer ranges in Namibia, so a 2.5-10X or a 3-9X scope is useful there.
I shot .375"/300 grain Nosler Partitions in Namibia to good effect. On the shots over 200 meters I first made a range estimate, and compared with the PHs, then adjusted my hold for the drop.
jim
if you're too busy to hunt,you're too busy.
06 March 2005, 23:23
TheBigGuyGoodie I will play!
winchester 270wsm with leupold 3.5-10x40
Though it would have great shock value for the leopard. Not my favourite for a tough to put down eland.
winchester 300wsm with leupold 3.5-10x40
Too bad the short neck on this cartridge limits the bullets you can use. The 300wsm is primarily for deer sized game because of this. Pretty much the same limitations as the 270WSM.
winchester 338win with leupold 2.5-8x32
Perfect for the game you are planning to hunt. High shock value with lighter bullets and plenty of punch for the big fellows.
winchester 375h&h with leupold 2.5-8x32.
Makes nice holes through everything but not known as a shock round. Guys round here who shoot deer with theirs are always surprised by how little meat damage there is and how far the game travels after the shot. It will kill a leopard certainly but be realistically prepared for the results.
06 March 2005, 23:45
BFaucettJust a slight correction:
The Leupold VX-III (or the older Vari-X III) 2.5-8x scope has a 36mm objective.
-Bob F.
06 March 2005, 23:51
bwanamrmMark,
I have a question...are you going to book a hunt this year or continue to ask 372 questions to find the "right" deal with the "right" rifle, only to find out all the hunts you've considered are sold out for the next two years
? Seriously, when ARE you going to book your hunt????????
On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died.
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch...
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
- Rudyard Kipling
Life grows grim without senseless indulgence.
I like the .375 H&H loaded with maybe a 235 gr woodleigh or a 270 gr woodleigh protected point for what you after.
07 March 2005, 00:38
WyoJoequote:
Originally posted by mark65x55:
......270gr 375 bullet seems like overkill for a 120 pound cat.
There is only one degree of dead.
******************************
There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor polite, nor popular -- but one must ask, "Is it right?"
Martin Luther King, Jr.
I was really glad I brought the 375 to Namibia, as was my PH. Nice exit holes on everything. I shot 260 accubonds which worked perfectly ane would probably be a good choice for leopard (but not having hunted one, I'd defer to the experienced). Depending on which part of Namibia, shots may be long or short. We were in the north in bushveld country, longest shot was 200 yds, most much closer. If game was farther away, we snuck up, which is half the fun. Unless your in the sand dunes, I'd go with the 338 or 375. Bob
07 March 2005, 00:51
<allen day>Of those, I'd take the .338 Win. Mag., simply because I like the way H&H-based belted cases feed and function out of the magazine better than the WSMs, and I'd especially rather take a .338 over any kind of .270 to Africa.
I'd also take the .338 Win. Mag. over the .375 H&H, simply because a .338 rifle and its ammo are lighter to carry around, and there isn't a single species of African plainsgame anywhere on that continent that a .338 Win. won't kill just as well as the .375 H&H.
If you can't kill everything from dik dik to eland to leopard deader'n a doornail, cleanly and quickly with a .338 Win. Mag., you won't be able to do so with anything else..........
AD
07 March 2005, 03:32
Russell E. Taylorquote:
Originally posted by mark65x55:
A hunt in Namibia (not that I've booked anything, I'm still dreaming at this point) for,
leopard
eland
kudu
zebra
Heres the rifles and scopes I have.
winchester 270wsm with leupold 3.5-10x40
winchester 300wsm with leupold 3.5-10x40
winchester 338win with leupold 2.5-8x32
winchester 375h&h with leupold 2.5-8x32.
The .375 Holland & Holland Magnum. I wouldn't even consider the others.
Russ
The doing of unpleasant deeds calls for people of an unpleasant nature.
07 March 2005, 04:17
JudsonFrom my experiance the Winchester short mag is a big no go!!!! If your ammo does not get there you will have a real tough time finding any there, at least in Sa you will. On the other hand you have two of debateable the most versital chamberings going, the .338 and the .375, take them both, one as your main rifle the other as back up and you can probably find ammo for either in almost any country in the world.
It is not what you hunt with, it is how you hunt that matters!
07 March 2005, 04:26
mark65x55quote:
Originally posted by bwanamrm:
Mark,
I have a question...are you going to book a hunt this year or continue to ask 372 questions to find the "right" deal with the "right" rifle, only to find out all the hunts you've considered are sold out for the next two years
? Seriously, when ARE you going to book your hunt????????
I guess I'll book a hunt when I find the one
I'm looking for! I just looked in my files and before I booked our first trip I talked to at least 11 PHs and/or booking agents. I only up to 6 so far on this hunt, I'm in no hurry and don't mind doing research because thats how I learn.
As to the 372 questions, I thought that was what this board was all about. To help and learn from each other, but if my questions offend you then sir don't read them. I said up front I was bored and didn't have anything better to do on a Sunday morning.
BTW it took me 9 months to buy my last truck. Partly because I didn't want to spend good money on a truck instead of on a hunt and partly because trucks now days are over priced! Sure, it took me 9 month but in the end I found one I could use and enjoy at just a little more than what I thought was a fair price. On the day I bought it I went to dealer A and drove his truck to the other dealers in town. I told them this is what I want, this is the offer dealer A made me and this is what I can spend. After 2 hours at dealer C I made the salesman my final offer and told him "if the sales manager lets me walk out over $500 then I don't need the damn thing and I'm going home". I drove his truck home.
The early bird may get the worm but the first mouse don't normaly get the cheese.
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07 March 2005, 04:46
Dungbeetlequote:
Originally posted by mark65x55:
quote:
Originally posted by bwanamrm:
Mark,
I have a question...are you going to book a hunt this year or continue to ask 372 questions to find the "right" deal with the "right" rifle, only to find out all the hunts you've considered are sold out for the next two years
? Seriously, when ARE you going to book your hunt????????
I guess I'll book a hunt when I find the one
I'm looking for! I just looked in my files and before I booked our first trip I talked to at least 11 PHs and/or booking agents. I only up to 6 so far on this hunt, I'm in no hurry and don't mind doing research because thats how I learn.
As to the 372 questions, I thought that was what this board was all about. To help and learn from each other, but if my questions offend you then sir don't read them. I said up front I was bored and didn't have anything better to do on a Sunday morning.
BTW it took me 9 months to buy my last truck. Partly because I didn't want to spend good money on a truck instead of on a hunt and partly because trucks now days are over priced! Sure, it took me 9 month but in the end I found one I could use and enjoy at just a little more than what I thought was a fair price. On the day I bought it I went to dealer A and drove his truck to the other dealers in town. I told them this is what I want, this is the offer dealer A made me and this is what I can spend. After 2 hours at dealer C I made the salesman my final offer and told him "if the sales manager lets me walk out over $500 then I don't need the damn thing and I'm going home". I drove his truck home.
The early bird may get the worm but the first mouse don't normaly get the cheese.
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The truck piece was a nice addition. Now, I understand.
07 March 2005, 04:58
surestrikequote:
Originally posted by mark65x55:
270gr 375 bullet seems like overkill for a 120 pound cat.
Mark could you please give me a definition for
"overkill"?
07 March 2005, 05:11
mark65x55I'm not sure there is one but I've shot a bunch of 120 pound deer, 2 black bears and 10 animals in Africa. So far the biggest bullet I've used has been a 200gr 308, they all died in pretty short order, based on that a 270gr 375 bullet seems a bit much for a 120 pound thin skinned leopard. Then again I've never even seen a leopard so I guess thats why we ask these questions.
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07 March 2005, 05:15
mark65x55quote:
Originally posted by Dungbeetle:
The truck piece was a nice addition. Now, I understand.
Great! Could you explain it to me????????
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07 March 2005, 05:22
mark65x55quote:
Originally posted by TheBigGuy:
Goodie I will play!
winchester 300wsm with leupold 3.5-10x40
Too bad the short neck on this cartridge limits the bullets you can use. The 300wsm is primarily for deer sized game because of this. Pretty much the same limitations as the 270WSM.
I know 2 wildebeest, a zebra, an impala and a duiker that would disagree with you on that!! I took all 5 last year useing a 300wsm and 200gr barnes triple shocks. If I draw a moose tag this fall that is the gun and load I'll use. Plus I plan to take it on my musk ox-caribou hunt in October. BTW I also took 4 deer with it this past season useing the 180gr triple shock.
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07 March 2005, 06:30
bwanamrmMark,
Touchy, touchy...I thought those stupid smiling faces denoted humor. Sorry if I offended you BUT I found humor in the fact you recast a question you had asked several days earlier in your thread "Scope and rifle combo". And I had no idea where you were going with the truck analogy! I came away with... I am cheap and have a hard time making a decision! You are right in that this is a public forum and folks can pretty much post what they want! Post away, my friend.
On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died.
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch...
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
- Rudyard Kipling
Life grows grim without senseless indulgence.
07 March 2005, 08:02
TheBigGuyquote:
Originally posted by mark65x55:
quote:
Originally posted by TheBigGuy:
Goodie I will play!
winchester 300wsm with leupold 3.5-10x40
Too bad the short neck on this cartridge limits the bullets you can use. The 300wsm is primarily for deer sized game because of this. Pretty much the same limitations as the 270WSM.
I know 2 wildebeest, a zebra, an impala and a duiker that would disagree with you on that!! I took all 5 last year useing a 300wsm and 200gr barnes triple shocks. If I draw a moose tag this fall that is the gun and load I'll use. Plus I plan to take it on my musk ox-caribou hunt in October. BTW I also took 4 deer with it this past season useing the 180gr triple shock.
I would ask them but I fear they would be unable to answer.
I have personally killed several deer with a 223Rem but because of this I do not claim it to be primarily a deer cartridge. For the record I understand you can kill all the animals in the list with any of the above mentioned weapons. You asked what we would use, I told you my thoughts were.
As far as your 200gr Barnes load goes, have you shot that through a chronograph? Check it against other 30caliber cartridges with the same weight bullet. The 300WSM is honestly designed for 180gr max bullets. You are probably sacrificing some case capacity to shoot the larger pill. Plus realize that a solid copper bullet like a Barnes is longer than a jacketed bullet of similar weight.
07 March 2005, 08:28
Dungbeetlequote:
Originally posted by mark65x55:
quote:
Originally posted by Dungbeetle:
The truck piece was a nice addition. Now, I understand.
Great! Could you explain it to me????????
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Getting any productive feedback from 24 hour campfire on this one? Just asking.
07 March 2005, 09:41
NitroX.375 H&H Magnum. Go classic all the way.
07 March 2005, 18:46
mark65x55Bwanamrm,
Sorry, I was having a bad afternoon and over reacted.
As to being cheap and having a hard time making a decision. I'm not sure if I'm cheap or not. I do know my yearly income is about 65k and a 15k leopard hunt is 23% of my income, so if that makes me cheap then I'm cheap.
In regards to not being able to make a decision, I will admit that my nature is to be well informed and research any project before I commit it. I do like to know and understand how things work, I read as much as I can with my schedule. You know the old saying, “the devil is in the detailsâ€.
Here is one more analogy for you. 20 years ago my wife and I wanted to build a log house, we were convinced that’s what we wanted. Well after 2 years of talking to builders, going to trade shows, to sawmills, reading many books and talking to log homeowners we decided a log house wasn’t for us. We still like the way they look, but they don’t fit our life style very well. That is just one case where my commitment to making an informed decision kept us from making a bad decision.
Other than that I’m just a dumb ass country boy from Alabama who loves to hunt, reload and can’t spell or write a letter. So can we still be friends?
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07 March 2005, 18:53
mark65x55Big Guy,
I guess I thought you were one of those guy who hate the WSM line without ever trying them. Sorry, and thanks for your thoughts.
Dungbeetle,
Nope, we all know this is the best African board on the web.
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08 March 2005, 00:01
JohnTheGreekquote:
Originally posted by mark65x55:
As to being cheap and having a hard time making a decision. I'm not sure if I'm cheap or not.
You're not cheap....you are just "careful with money".
Seriously, I find that if I watch my nickels the dollars take care of themselves and I can blow them extravagantly on ridiculously priced hunting trips! NO ONE who hunts africa can ever be called "cheap" IMO.
Best,
JohnTheGreek
P.S. When you gonna let loose with some of that cash and come upland hunting over here. I am heading to The Fayoum Oasis for Dove and Sand Grouse again two weekends from now. Hurry and you can still get a cheap fare!
08 March 2005, 04:01
Blacktailerquote:
Originally posted by surestrike:
quote:
Originally posted by mark65x55:
270gr 375 bullet seems like overkill for a 120 pound cat.
Mark could you please give me a definition for
"overkill"?
Overkill is shopping for 9 months when you could have been driving a new truck!
BTW I vote for the 375, never know when you might stumble across something big in Africa.
Have gun- Will travel
The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark
08 March 2005, 05:14
JohnTheGreekquote:
Originally posted by Blacktailer:
Overkill is shopping for 9 months when you could have been driving a new truck!
Except that 9 months of $500 per month truck payments went into a safari fund that came to total $4500. That is a Namibia plains game trip or half a Tanzania Buffalo.
I sold some real estate last year and needed a new truck desperately so bought a Toyota Tacoma 4x4. Can I just tell you how hard it was to do that when I knew I could have gone elephant hunting!?!? DOWNRIGHT PAINFUL ! Mark has his priorities straight and is smart enough to get the truck AND hunt the fun stuff!
JMHO,
JohnTheGreek
08 March 2005, 06:18
MacD37Mark, I'm going to have to agree with Ray, and Allen on this one! If you are takeing two rifles, which I believe would be a good idea, I'd take the 338 Win Mag, and the 375 H&H. The reasons have already been stated here by more than one person. You say you want to take your 375 H&H because it is your "AFRICA" rifle, and the 338 Win mag, properly loaded will do the trick on any of your targets. In this case you can take a couple of the animals with the 375 as well, to blood it in Africa, it is only fitting. The 338 with heavy bullets will not damage your cat, but then neither will the 375 H&H with a 300 gr Nosler Partition. Those are the two I'd take because the ammo for the others, might be hard to come by in Namimbia, if it is lost, as someone said the 338, and 375 are everywhere in Africa!
....Mac >>>===(x)===> MacD37, ...and DUGABOY1
DRSS Charter member
"If I die today, I've had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"~ME 1982
Hands of Old Elmer Keith
08 March 2005, 06:50
TheBigGuyquote:
Originally posted by mark65x55:
Big Guy,
I guess I thought you were one of those guy who hate the WSM line without ever trying them. Sorry, and thanks for your thoughts.
Thanks Mark, for the record I am not a WSM hater which I believe you have surmised.
08 March 2005, 17:27
mark65x55quote:
Originally posted by Blacktailer:
Overkill is shopping for 9 months when you could have been driving a new truck!
BTW I vote for the 375, never know when you might stumble across something big in Africa.
Yeah your right. The problem was I
REALLY didn't want to buy one but my old truck was costing me too much to keep it going. So I'd go to the dealer and get pissed of at the %$^&* sales people for trying to sell me an over priced truck, which would cut into my hunting. Then a month or so, and a few hundred dollars of repair bills, later I'd start over.
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