Gentlemen,

What you see above is all of one action, the Parker Hale in 243 Winchester.

I will post details of the other two rifles too.

was there anything left of the case as it looks like their were some chunks of brass extruded around the bolt head and a lot of brass staining in the chamber/bolt area along with what looks like a ring of brass at the chamber end? just curious

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Does anyone know if PH actions were cast or forged? Carburized or tool steel hard to the core? That one didn't bend. That one broke!

Those ones were forged in Spain by a bunch called Santa Barbara if I have my facts right.

They also supplied them to Musgrave in South Africa for their Mk3 and Mk4 rifles.

Saw one of them after a catastrophic failure too ....new buyer thought his rifle was a .308. Turned out to be a 270.

Owner was unharmed apart from sphincter failure, mag floor plate was blown out and bolt handle would not budge ..... no idea of what happened internally.

35 grains of HP38? Thought HP38 was a pistol powder. Checked Hodgdon reloading site and no HP38 listed under .243(?). Am I missing something here?

quote:

Originally posted by Mike Michalski:
35 grains of HP38? Thought HP38 was a pistol powder. Checked Hodgdon reloading site and no HP38 listed under .243(?). Am I missing something here?

What exactly do you feel you have missed out in regarding to the experiment?.

Anyone else shocked that front ring of the action broke but that the barrel is still intact? I would have thought that the barrel would have had to look like a peeled banana to blow the action like that.

HP 38 was intentionaly misused to creat the failure.

Glad you didn't make Walter shoot it.....

jens, Impala#03 explained that it was a deliberate attempt to blow up the gun. Now I get it, I think.... They deliberately grossly overloaded the .243 with a fast powder and it blew up. Astonishing!

quote:

Originally posted by Wendell Reich:
I'd be curious to see how Remington 700 and Winchester 70 stacked up in a head to head comparison, same caliber, same load.

+1 on this suggestion.

Very interesting.
Was there no piece of brass any bigger than that thin ring at the breech? The rest was "atomized?"

A new method of brass plating the inside of a rifle action:
I recommend that this new metal coating technique be called either "Walterization" or "Walterolysis."

Keep those pictures coming.

The brass that is inside the barrel is still there.

The rest was vaporized.

And from the other two attempts we made, it is obvious the brass is the first to give and brass vapor is thrown back along the bolt chanel.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
We also tried blowing up a BRNO CZ550 in 308 Winchester, and Lee Enfield Number 4 Mk 1 in 303 British.

Saeed - what, no Blaser?

Oddly, at least to me, is that Japanese Arisaka bolt actions are supposed to be incredibly strong.

It would prove again why the Blaser R 93 is at least three times stronger than these Mauser based bolt actions.

Try the same load through an unobstructed barrel.

Nothing will happen to the Blaser !!!

quote:

Originally posted by skeetshot:

It would prove again why the Blaser R 93 is at least three times stronger than these Mauser based bolt actions.

Wooooowwwww!!! That was an explotion! Very interesting to see what can happen is somebody doesn´t charge a bullet properly. It is very interesting also, to see the different perspectives from the cameras, which were very well located so no camera was damaged. It was also nice to see the tunnel again, the Vincents inside in some photoes, only in one it was possible to see a couple of not that attractive feet(ooops!)

Great experiment! Thanks a lot

Ladies and Gentlemen,

You can see below the results of our test on the BRNO CZ550 rifle.

The rifle had a custom barrel we have installed in it - which did not meet our high standards of accuracy.

Some of you might remember a company making barrels under the name of BLACK STAR. They made all sorts of claims for them - sadly none were true, and the company went out of business.

Anyway, we loaded a maximum charge of Hodgdon HP38 pistol powder, and 150 grain bullet.

No visible damage occurred to the rifle except a crack in the stock at the rear of the action, and ahead of the pistol grip.

We were able to hammer the action open, and the case as you can see in the photos.

You can also see how the brass was blown into the action around the bolt. The gold color tells the story.

We decided to shoot this rifle again, with a 220 grain bullet, and the same charge of 35 grains of HP38.

The bolt was bent slightly, and we had to grind it to be able to chamber a round.

Again, the action held up very well, except the stock broke where it had split earlier.

I will post the video of this happening.

Photos of the CZ550 have been added.

Great experiment and great pictures.

Cant wait enough for more !!

Based on your experiment, Saeed, I definitely prefer Czech, over English!

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Based on your experiment, Saeed, I definitely prefer Czech, over English!

Wait till you see our results for the Lee Enfield 303 British.

The PH actions in that 1200 model were made by Santa Barbara in Spain. I do not believe they were of a high quality and I don't think the same thing would have happened with the earlier PH Safari models, which were built on German military actions.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Based on your experiment, Saeed, I definitely prefer Czech, over English!

Thank goodness my Lott was made in Czech! Then again - I hope never to subject it to such punishment!

Excellent thread. While the videos were definitely informative I think the pictures tell the stories best. I cannot wait to see the rest. It would have been especially interesting if you had been able to run the same load through the all of the rifles.

Extremely interesting.
It is also very interesting how many bullet skid marks are one the wall of the tunnel -

Unfortunately, for purposes of comparison, shooting a .243 loaded with 35 grains of HP38 and a .308 with 35 grains of HP38 is a bit apples and oranges.

Not only do the calibers, bullets, powder, and primer need to be the same, but the cases need to be from the same lot: The initial failure is always at the case web where it is unsupported by either the chamber or the bolt. That's why the action ring on the PH blew because the pressure was released though the failed case head aft of the barrel.

Since there were two different cartridges used it is impossible to say with certainty, but it does appear that the metallurgy of the CZ action was superior (for these purposes) to that of the PH action, with the PH action appearing to be hard but brittle. This may be similar to the problem that "low number" Springfields sometimes suffered, where the receivers were very hard, but too brittle and without the necessary elasticity to absorb high pressure impulses.

Thank you Saeed ,if you permit me ill use this test in future articles.
I use mainly CZs and then Mausers or some of my guides Zastavas in our hunting and training operation ,i believe they are the stronger rifles for pro use.
Our mutual friend DRDON HEATH confirmed this on his RIFA-RIFA exams .

The title could have read "In case people wonder why Walter is not allowed to reload"

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
Parker Hale Rifle Blow Up

The above file is 1080P Full HD, size is 143 MB, so those with slow connection might take this into consideration.

Video is from 3 seperate HERO GoPro cameras, slowed down to 5% of normal speed

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

Amazing that all 3 cameras survived, unprotected and that close to the bomb.

I'm going to assume that Saeed knew precisely how far to set them. After all he has lots of experiance with Walter.
Imagine having done extensive post "explosive misshap" investigations.

Saeed,

Would you mind posting,if you have it, the video of the CZ in action? Thank you.


Best-
Locksley,R

BTW, I have this question as to why the P-H blew up while the CZ did not.

I know that most of the Parker-Hale actions were Santa Barbara Mauser actions made in Spain. I read that these actions were investment cast instead of being machined like a traditional Mauser action. While strong enough to withstand what they are intended to fire, may be they are not as strong as to withstand the kind of pressure generated in this test. I am not stating a fact but asking a question about a possible explanation. Appreciate your replies.Thank you.

Best-
Locksley,R

So what caliber are you going to rebarrel that 550 to?

Nice to see the CZ held up amazingly well. I love mine, a very solidly built rifle and in the big 50s not a bit too heavy. I think I'll keep to my mild load of a 570g TSX at 2300fps though thank you!

Great experiment, thanks much Saeed!

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
Unfortunately, for purposes of comparison, shooting a .243 loaded with 35 grains of HP38 and a .308 with 35 grains of HP38 is a bit apples and oranges.

Depends entirely on the pressures and bolt thrust generated, nothing else. If they're comparable, then it's apples and apples.

Gentlemen,

In an ideal world, we would liked to have several actions, from several manufacturers, in the same caliber, to test this on.

We don't have that luxury I am afraid.

So we picked rifles we can spare, knowing full well that they are going to be trashed.

You will need to restock the CZ before putting it in the classifieds...

There was a Parker Hale 243 years ago, I heard of which blew up here in Aust was also a 100 gr bullet, cant remember the the reason why, wrong powder ? or half a load ? anyway decided back then I wouldn't own one

We have had a many Parker Hale rifles through here, and non had any problems whatsoever.

The funny part is that we have had a lot of problems in the past with CZ rifles in 243 Winchester.

They will not even digest starting loads without showing signs of excessive pressure.

I have added the video of both the CZ550, shot twice, and the Lee Enfield.

You will find the link in my first post.

The CZ and Lee-Enfield actions sure seemed to hold up well.

And the CZ did it twice!

Maybe there is such a thing as foolproof!

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Does anyone know if PH actions were cast or forged? Carburized or tool steel hard to the core? That one didn't bend. That one broke!

I believe that I read somewhere that later Parker Hale actions came from the Zastava plant in Serbia and that Whitworth ones did too.

They would be forged steel, based on old machinery and production methods (often a good thing), but I don't know enough to opine about the quality. I have also heard that Zastava makes products of differing quality, depending on the specs of the order, though that may refer to the fit and finish. If any of this is incorrect, somebody can set it straight.