Were these magnificent antelope indigenous to pretty much the entire country in historic times?

Good question! I just went over to Wikipedia and they have a range map that shows eland as being native to only tiny areas of the north of RSA.

There's a few different sub-species but the general description for Tautrotagus Oryx from Rowland Ward says:

Distribution - from Ethiopia south throughout East Africa into Central and southern Africa:

Then goes onto:

Cape Eland/ Tautrotagus Oryx Oryx

Distribution - found in the Republic of South Africa,extending into Namibia, Botswana and Zimbabwe.

Livingstone's Eland/Tautrotagus Oryx Livingstonii

Distribution: From the RSA, Botswana, Nsmibia, Angola, Zimbabwe, Zambia and Malawi, probably into extreme southern Tanzania.

Then it goes onto East Africa & Giant Eland etc.

Of course there's also the regular argument between the lumpers and groupers etc and SCI may also classify them differently but I didn't bother checking their classifications.

Hope that helps.

Thanks fellas. Would the giant eland be the Lord Derby's?
Seems eland are native to the area I will hunt next year in the Limpopo.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Thanks fellas. Would the giant eland be the Lord Derby's?
Seems eland are native to the area I will hunt next year in the Limpopo.

Yes it would.

When you shoot one, be very sure to try the fillets...... I doubt you'll ever taste anything better.

I would rather eat eland than any other meat from any other critter I have ever had!

According to C.J. Skead's "Historical Mammal Incidence in the Cape Province, Vol 1," eland were found on and around the Cape Peninsula [today's Cape Town.] Page 589 to 598; 22.23 Skead makes reference to several written recordings of eland throughout the Western and Northern Cape from 1627 onwards. In Vol 2, page 627, Skead states that 'eland were everywhere, on mountain, on plain, in bush and forest, on the dry Karoo and in the moister grassveld whether sweet or sourveld.' The eland's biggest problem was that it was and is good to eat and it produced a useful leather.
Kinda fun trying to balance Skead's massive tomes whilst sitting in front of a PC
As an aside, I do wish that the scientific community would all agree to put eland, as some have done for some time, with the rest of the Tragelaphinae family.

Why, Doug, I had no idea you were a taxonomist in your spare time!
So it sounds like a guy wants to get his eland early in the hunt so he can eat on it for the rest of the safari. The leather sounds worthwhile, too. Is it possible to have it vegetable vs. chrome tanned at one of the big taxidermist outfits?

quote:

Posted 30 November 2012 23:19 Hide Post
I would rather eat eland than any other meat from any other critter I have ever had!

me2

Bill

Be prepared to walk a looooooooooong way after eland..... the bastards never stop for long at all.

Steve: my hill-walking program begins as soon as the gullywasher season subsides. We've had 3.6 inches in the last 48 hours and lots more on the way.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Why, Doug, I had no idea you were a taxonomist in your spare time!

No Bill, I look for the correct books, read them and know from where and what to quote. If I get it right, it can make me look quite clever. Sometimes and if I can remember enough, I can hold a bit of a conversation around the campfire before people start falling asleep.

I was blessed, that both of my eland were simply targets of opportunity.
Both magnificent creatures that taste GREAT!

I walked my feet off for most of 5 days after Eland last year> they almost nevert stopped moving.

Oddly we were headed back to teh lodge for lunch and decided to try for a Zebra that we bumped into. got off teh Cruiser went a few hundred yards and there wer ethe eland giving me a broadside shot.

Unreal.

Best tasting meat I have ever eaten.

If one can judge the distribution of Tragelaphos oryx by bushmen drawings in South Africa it is clear that they were abundant in the Drakensberg area of Freestate and Kwazulu Natal. I personally saw a lot of rock paintings of this antelope in these areas.

In the book "The Behavior Guide of African Mammals" by Richard Despard Estes P.188. the distribution are indicated as to be North of the 23'5 degree Lattitude.

Nowdays they are pretty common on most game farms due to re-introduction.

Often they don't fare well in areas where there are a lot of ticks. I have seen some of these magnificent animals in the Warmbaths area of Limpopo where the ears has been eaten away by Ticks.

Thanks for the replies guys. Certainly makes for a worthwhile animal to pursue.
And Scriptus, mon ami, some of us are falling asleep waiting for you to divulge your "Secrets of the Tahr." What -- are you waiting for confirmation that all the witnesses have been killed?

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Steve: my hill-walking program begins as soon as the gullywasher season subsides. We've had 3.6 inches in the last 48 hours and lots more on the way.

Bill,

I guess we're not far off of that here as well......... nothing more depressing than bloody rain huh!

As for his 'secrets of the tahr' he's probably so jetlagged and just plain old and stuffed up, he's forgotten where he went or what he did!

Steve, you mean it rains in Portugal? I thought all folks did there was sit around under the sun in quaint street cafes wearing black berets, sipping ancient port and ogling dark-eyed lasses ...

Anton, I found quite a few images and a couple of books on San rock art depictions of eland in the Drakensberg. Thank you for suggesting this.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Steve, you mean it rains in Portugal? I thought all folks did there was sit around under the sun in quaint street cafes wearing black berets, sipping ancient port and ogling dark-eyed lasses ....

It only rains in the fairly short winter but when it does rain, it pisses down.

The good news is we have the rest of the year to sit in the cafes, drink vino and/or port and ogle the all the beautiful maidens....... it's a tough life one way or another.

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Steve, you mean it rains in Portugal? I thought all folks did there was sit around under the sun in quaint street cafes wearing black berets, sipping ancient port and ogling dark-eyed lasses ....

It only rains in the fairly short winter but when it does rain, it pisses down.

The good news is we have the rest of the year to sit in the cafes, drink vino and/or port and ogle the all the beautiful maidens....... it's a tough life one way or another.

That is the damn problem, too much damn plonk, too much sitting around and the poor maidens remain maidens, totally unravished.

Tahr are friggen goats that live up there, laughing at old farts struggling up steep, crumbling mountains, in the cold, amongst ice and snow, begging for oxygen, begging for sanity. So what did you want to know? Where am I? Take me home.

Nooooooo man. Just tell us how the hunt went and if you got one!!!!!!

Mind you, isn't it a bit of a bastard getting up those mountains on a Zimmer frame?

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:
The good news is we have the rest of the year to sit in the cafes, drink vino and/or port and ogle the all the beautiful maidens....... it's a tough life one way or another.

"WE" ?? ...... found another dirty old codger to keep you company while the missus is toiling in the kitchen?

quote:

Originally posted by fujotupu:
"WE" ?? ...... found another dirty old codger to keep you company while the missus is toiling in the kitchen?

WE as in every heterosexual male in the country...... eying up the crumpet seems to be the national sport!

quote:

Originally posted by Scriptus:
According to C.J. Skead's "Historical Mammal Incidence in the Cape Province, Vol 1," eland were found on and around the Cape Peninsula [today's Cape Town.] Page 589 to 598; 22.23 Skead makes reference to several written recordings of eland throughout the Western and Northern Cape from 1627 onwards. In Vol 2, page 627, Skead states that 'eland were everywhere, on mountain, on plain, in bush and forest, on the dry Karoo and in the moister grassveld whether sweet or sourveld.' The eland's biggest problem was that it was and is good to eat and it produced a useful leather.
Kinda fun trying to balance Skead's massive tomes whilst sitting in front of a PC
As an aside, I do wish that the scientific community would all agree to put eland, as some have done for some time, with the rest of the Tragelaphinae family.

I'm sure I have seen paintings/drawings from the early Cape Town settlement which showed eland in the near vicinity.

Next question, how distributed was elephant?

I think I remember reading about elephant hunting in the near (?) environs too, but they had been shot out very early in the settlement. (?)

If my memory serves me I remember William Harris hunting them in sa around 1830's.

quote:

Originally posted by ndorobo1:
If my memory serves me I remember William Harris hunting them in sa around 1830's.

Damn...... you must be even older than Scriptus!

quote:

Originally posted by shakari:

Damn...... you must be even older than Scriptus!

Good one shakari.

quote:

Originally posted by ndorobo1:
Good one shakari.

I'm probably making a rod for my own back because I KNOW Scriptus is gonna give me shit for that one!

I'm not exactly certain what our mutual pal in East London has done to deserve so much "attention," but you guys know him better than I.

I expect to order a copy of "People of the Eland" or the update as a Christmas present to myself. The San rock paintings of these beasts are wonderful.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
I'm not exactly certain what our mutual pal in East London has done to deserve so much "attention," but you guys know him better than I.

I expect to order a copy of "People of the Eland" or the update as a Christmas present to myself. The San rock paintings of these beasts are wonderful.

I think it's something to do with his longevity........ looking at the pics he's posted in the Aussie hunting forum , you'd never guess he's nearly as old as those San rock paintings you mention!

Mind you. I shouldn't take the piss because I'm not that far behind him!

Hhhhmmmnnn! Stored for future reference.
"As ye sow, so shall ye reap." With modern farming methods, 'Ye shall reap tenfold!'

quote:

Originally posted by Scriptus:
Hhhhmmmnnn! Stored for future reference.
"As ye sow, so shall ye reap." With modern farming methods, 'Ye shall reap tenfold!'

To get back to the question ..... Elephant.

Within Scrip's living memory there were (and still are elephant in the Addo elephant park near PE.

In fact PJ Pretorius (Jungle Man) had to shoot out the original elephant due to the amount of raiding they did (post WW I).

Selous is said to have looked at the habitat after being told there were elephant there and was said to have remarked that the buggers could stay there, he wasn't mad enough to actually enter that jungle looking for them. (paraphrased).

MMmmnn, Methuselah here, okay elephants.
Again I will quote from C.J.Skead who in order to compile his tomes spent many years reading the diaries, manuscripts and books of the Dutch East Indies Company, early explorers, ships captains, traders and of course the numerous hunters who left record of their activities. It has been a matter of concern to myself that so many researchers and publishers do not consult Skead and present erroneous information as gospel.
In Volume 1 of "HISTORICAL MAMMAL INCIDENCE IN THE CAPE PROVINCE," page 195 to page 241, sec 15 ; ORDER PROBISCIDEA - FAMILY ELEPHANTIDAE it can be discerned that there is no real conclusive evidence that elephant were permanent residents in and around present day Cape Town. There was a molar found in July, 1892 buried under sand on the Cape Flats, giving rise to the possibilty of elephant being occasional visitors, in fact an elephant was shot on March 16th, 1702 at Tiger Valley, some twenty kilometers from the centre of present day Cape Town. This was one of a troop that because of drought were looking for water.
Skead makes reference to the recording of elephant on the west coast, North of the Berg River, near present day Citrusdal in December 1660. On the East Coast/Southern Cape, elephant were recorded from present day Mossel Bay up the coastal areas.
In Volume 2, page 536 to 540, skead gives reference to elephant in the Eastern Cape being found adjacent to the coast and sub-coastal regions with food being more abundant there due to the climate being more conducive for the growth of forest and thicket.
I trust that this helps. If you insist on knowing more, buy the damn books.

Doug, you have a hell of a library. I doff my chapeau and bow deeply.

Bill, which style of chapeau adorns your noggin, I do trust that edged with "ermine" surrounding your family crest.

My library is rather large and mixed. The family joke is that one day the floor boards will give up with an almighty crash and with a cloud of dust, my library will relocate to the basement.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Doug, you have a hell of a library. I doff my chapeau and bow deeply.

I thought we had a big library until Doug told me about his and he puts ours to shame.