Which caliber do you consider to be the best penetrator with solids?

I would expect the 378 Weatherby to hold this crown based on the energy cross section of the bullet and sectional density. Unfortunately I do not have the money to by all the heavy shooter quantify this theory.

Chris

Depends much more on the bullet (sectional density - i.e. relative weight for the caliber, and shape of the bullet) than the caliber - or the velocity. The movement of a solid through a fluid is proportional to the cube of the velocity (i.e. to go twice as deep you need to go 8 times as fast) so you need to have a lot more velocity to make up for small reductions in weight.

King,

Mike LaGrange reported in his book _Ballistics in Perspective_ that in his penetration tests of rifles from .30-'06 to .577 NE that sectional density was a good predictor of penetration.

He used a frame with 20 mm thickness boards spaced 20 mm apart, and measured the penetration when firing into the frame from 15 meters.

The .375 A-Square with a 350 solid bullet penetrated 1365 mm, the longest penetration measured. The .378 Weatherby was not tested , but the cartridges are similar in performance.

jim dodd

------------------
"if you are to busy to
hunt, you are too busy."

Try this link... www.470mbogo.com

Go to the Comparing the Big Bores article. The author (a frequent poster here) did a couple of really interesting penetration tests.

A .375 cal cartridge was not included but it is pretty comprehensive from there on up.

Canuck

[This message has been edited by Canuck (edited 04-05-2002).]

In my experience the penetrationindex given by Art Alphin in A-Squares reloading manual is the best way to estimate a given caliber/bullets penetrationability.
From my own tests there is no doubt;
The .416 Weatherby with 400 grs solids (at 2770 f/sec in my rifle) is absolutely the best penetrator of all the big bores. Quite a lot better than the 378 Wby/375 A-Square. Using Mr Alphins index also shows that clearly . OK the 350 grs in 375 might be even better but then I will just say that a 480 - 500 grainer in .416 will be much better yet...
But with all the standard bulletweights (375/300grs, 416/400 grs, 458/500 grs etc) then the 416 Wby beats them all with a good margin.

------------------
UH

See : www.grosswildjagd.de , esp. evaluation of Alphin�s Penetration Index and how to get maximum penetration, sometimes more than needed.

I think penetration can be something of an illusive beast to catch at times and depends on a LOT of factors. For example, I am reminded of photos I've seen of .30 caliber AP ammo bouncing off steel plate while little .224 bullets from a Swift go thru it like tissue paper. Or from my own experience a friend with a .41 magnum shot a big cedar tree one day to see how deeply his bullet would penetrate. I shot it with my .45 ACP. The 41 penetrated about an inch and to both our amazement, the .45 went in out of sight!
Point being there are a lot of things coming into play with this penetration thing. Betting all your money on sectional density, weight, velocity or any single factor can be dangerous. No SINGLE chart we can just run our fingers down and say, "OH, this one will be the best."

I agree the cartridges listed by other posters here are certainly good penetrators, but I would toss into the equation this warning that it depends on many issues and sometimes we can get fooled.

Velocity penitrates steel, end of story. Velocity is the enemy of animal penitration and too much emphisis is placed on penitration medias, none of which is worth a flip other than as a comparator to some extent....

I have found that a 40 cal. 400 gr. bullet at 2100 will penitrate about the most followed by a 300 gr. 338 bullet. and this applys to softs and solids. Most of the standards like the 375 H&H, 9.3 x 62 and 9.3x64 with modern bullets are the best penitrators.

The 500's and 577's penitrate enough but are not the big penitrators, they are big killers however..

Speed those bullets up with magnum velocities and what happens?? they meet with too much resistance caused by that velocity, bullets snap in half, bullets bend, bullets tilt on impact from velocity and go in the wrong direction..this happens on frequent ocassions and yes with our modern premiums..

The worst offenders that I have seen are the 416 Wby and and 378 Wby...All one has to do is slow them down to 2400 FPS for perfect penitration and lots of it.

Penitration has a point of deminishing returns, once it exits its worthless and dangerous.

With a solid, 2100 or 3000 FPS makes little difference in observed killing power, except to the cow and calf on the other side of the buff you just shot and a lot of country side, a few goat herders and two or three Mormans on bikes taking the word to the pagans of Africa...

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

King,

I shot several indicative big bores into a stop box like Mike Lagranges and came up with following results.

Target was 12 inch square 3/4 inch pine boards spaced 3/4 inch apart. The boards were press fit into slots milled into a 2 x 6 base board. Range about 20 yds.

458 x 404 (460 GA) 500 fmj hornady, 1-10 twist, 71 boards.

416 remington, 1-12 twist (not std 1-14), 410 Kynoch fmj, 71 boards.

375 improved, 300 hornady fmj, 1-8 twist, 70 1/2 boards.

450 Ackley, 500 hornady fmj, 1-14 twist 69-70 boards.

375 h and h, 300 fmj, 1-8 twist, 65 boards.

458 win mag, 500 fmj, 1-10 twist, 62 boards.

375 h and h, 300 fmj, 1-12 twist, 61 boards.

458 win mag, 500 fmj, 1-14 twist, 58-59 boards.

Note that increasing rate of twist helps considerably. this is why the 460 Weatherby in Lagranges test with a 1-16 twist dod not beat the 460 A Square which had a 1-10.

Velocity of the 458 x 404 and 450 Ackley were about the same (+/- 2,360 fps). The Ackley actually a bit faster. Velocity of 375 imnproved 2825 fps. Did not have standard 1-14 416 to test, this was a 1-12.

458 win mag ammo was federal premium at over 2,100 fps and 20 year old remington that still did 2,021 fps in 25 inch barrel brno 602.

Andy