Interesting observation on game after the shot

30 September 2003, 08:37

I have been reading a few posts here the last few days and one in particular reminded me of a few events in my hunting career. I see where folks talk about the minimum caliber or bullet weight and cartridge for various animals. Lots of guys chime in with their experience and what they have seen happen to others. Thats a great addition the the data base when folks are trying to make decisions.

I think there is a lot of margin for cartridge choices when this kind of discussion comes up. For example in the Eastern Cape or Namibia where the majority of habitat has thin bush or is wide open a smaller cartridge can be used successfully because you can see the animal run for a long way after the shot. This makes tracking a less complicated problem. I have seen Eland, black wildebeast and blesbok run for a mile and never go out of sight. This area will allow easy follow up and recovery. Many times you can see the animal fall and it's 3/4 mile away!

In the more Northern habitat and the eastern Coast line in KZN the bush is so thick and nasty one or two strides and the animal is completely out of sight. This requires a much different choice of cartridge and even the scope choice.

There have been several episodes like this for me. Allow me to give some examples of what goes on when an animal is hit from the experience of seeing this happen many times.

I was hunting with a father and son. We were in the northern province but on a thinly forested section of the consession. The father shooting 300 win mag 180 grain failsafe bullets hits a Zebra. The zebra at the shot ran full speed with the herd of about 15. Around about 80-100 yards out we can still see the dust in the air and intermittantly see the zebras. Then we see the dust cloud moving off to the right but we still see a single zebra in and out of the bush curling around to the left. No way to get another shot with the speed he is going and the bush. The zebra falls, with us having a sigh of relief,..... but he is up as quick as he fell. He continues at a brisk walk now about 100 yards out parallel to us. He falls again and he bounces right back up. He is curling around right to us. Now about 50 yards away we are silent watching for a chance at a finishing shot. He still moves but is staggering and falls a third time. He is down on his front legs but the back end is up. Still no clear shot. We remain silent as he will end up right back where he started in front of us. He wobbles and walks finally falling down for good. No second shot needed.

This Stallion was hit trough the lungs and travelled a solid 300 plus yards in about 30 seconds or so. When We took the photo's and loaded the Zebra I took a walk back on the track looking for blood. Not a drop could be found. I typically do this backtrack just for the educational value it provides and the experience at how these animals function after being hit. I'm also fanatical about tracking and follow ups on game, I enjoy the skills needed to find wounded animals and appreiciate watching skilled people participate in this "trade".

Now imagine this in thick bush where you could not see the animal run. You would be off on the tracks and get to the point he seperated from the group. That is problem #1, which set of tracks to follow? Problem #2 Can you even distinguish that one has peeled off another direction? If you can your now following a set of tracks that have come full circle around with zero blood. Problem #3 Do you continue, or go back to the bigger group? When the track seems to be going exactly back to the starting point it would seem as though it must be an older set of tracks from when they arrived at that site because the Zebra would not have come back to the same place he was shot........ right?

So you turn around just short of seeing the dead zebra. I have seen this exact situation with Eland and Wildebeast as well as impala. Many animals when really sick peel away from the herd becasue they cannot keep up. For some reason they tend to make a circular travel pattern which makes them end up back near the area they were shot, or they bed down, or fall dead heading that way.

This is much more clear when the bush is thinner or even more open as in the eastern Cape and Free state. The advantage there is you can watch the whole thing. In the northen Province your unable to see where the animal went due to the thick bush and must rely on the tracks alone which are dust covered and among a bigger group of 100's of tracks from the herd of game.

I suppose it really does not matter where you hunt. Having too much gun is always better then not enough so long as you can handle it. I just thought I would point out some further differences in cartridge choice which will to a great extent depend upon the habitat your in.

30 September 2003, 09:05

Slingster

Good post! I've always favored closer shots and larger calibers so that it's more likely that the animal is DRT (dead right there) or close to it, and one can get on the track more surely and quickly, giving the animal less time to get away or for the track to become obscured.

30 September 2003, 11:01

MacD37

JJ Hack always has some good things to help those, who do not know, to understand that Africa is not just one place, or one type of terrain, but several countries, and many climates, and bush conditions! Some of the places you hunt in Africa are freezeing cold in early morning, and on the wind screenless bakki ride back to camp at night. Some places are 120 deg F and as dry as talcum powder! All these things must be taken into consideration, when choosing to make a shot with what ever rifle, and load you are useing! IOW, what works for one animal may absolutly not be right for that same animal under different conditions. These condition differences from one place to another in Africa, are the reason a rifle set up properly for hunting in "AFRICA" has to be very flexable. This is why the choice of scope or Irons should be easily changeable, (QD bases) the caliber should be at least more than simply adequate for the bag you intend hunting, and ENOUGH for what ever you might encounter, in certain places. It is my opinion, that any animal that runs 3/4 mile after a solid hit, anywhere near in the right place, was shot with a rifle and/or a load that was not ADEQUATE for that animal under any condition. Simply because you can see the animal travel that distance before it falls, doesn't make it ethical to shoot an animal with a cartridge that allows this kind of run, IMO, and is not what I would consider to be sucessful use of a smaller caliber, because of exceptional conditions! Not looseing the animal, is not the only obligation one has to the game he hunts,in my view. What about the responsibility for a quick, clean, humane kill? Ruark said it best, "USE ENOUGH GUN" [Roll Eyes]

30 September 2003, 22:24

1894

Calibre is not really the issue with blood trailing (assuming through and through penetration)- shot placement is. I can shoot a big fallow buck low heart with a 90gr 6mm and get a paint trail. A 9.3x62 high lung and I'll SEE none but there will be enough for my dog to trail.

I am surprised that more PHs don't use a dog for trailing wounded (non dangerous) game. They make it so ridiculously easy - mine has recovered deer in cover so thick it took me 20minutes to cover 40yards.

A good trailing dog is worth 30minutes of light, 2 calibres and about 50yards of range. Once you've got used to using one you won't want to go without.

30 September 2003, 23:24

Boghossian

I agree 100% 1894, as even the most unlikely of breeds can be trained to trail wounded game. In my experience most game farms have a jack russel or two which could easily be trained to follow up wounded game. The number of animals lost in Eastern Europe where these dogs are commonplace is exceedingly low, but then again they have the option of leaving the trail overnight and finding the animal nearly untouched in the morning....a risky endeavour in most of Africa!

01 October 2003, 01:24

Aspen Hill Adventures

One of my archery outfitters has a wonderful tracking hound worth her weight in gold! Was real cool hearing her open up on a warthog we thought was expired but turned out to be not. This animal was recovered due to the dog.

01 October 2003, 02:00

Slingster

quote:
Originally posted by 1894:
I am surprised that more PHs don't use a dog for trailing wounded (non dangerous) game.

It's true that the tradition is to rely on trackers to find the game. On the other hand, my PH had just acquired a Jack Russell pup when I was there in 2002 for the express purpose of using him on more difficult wounded game tracking situations, so perhaps things are changing.

01 October 2003, 02:10

jorge

Great thought-provoking post. It really makes you think about what is "adequate" and what is really the best choice of caliber. Regarding the "art" of tracking, I was truly amazed at the two trackers my PH employed. Simply amazing, particularly in the initial phases of tracking, that is before the shot. My PH also had a Fox Terrier ( similar to a Jack Russell but with longer legs) to track. It seems that the JR Terriers are the dog of choice over there. We have one at home and I have to tell you that ANYTHING that dares venture into our yard is a DEAD varmint. She only weighs 15lb, but she's killed 20 plus lb ground hogs, squirrels, snakes, possums. They have no apparent fear of death! jorge

01 October 2003, 03:37

JJHACK

I suppose it's fine to have a tracking dog when your hunting near the area it's kept or if your hunting from a vehicle where the dog can be kept. However the use of a dog is in many hunts non-functional. You won't see me with a dog when stalking or foot hunting remote areas, nor will you when hunting from a blind. If you have the luxury of driving around to hunt or back to your base camp to fetch a dog that's great idea.

We also have a tracking dog, he's just not with me on the hunts. Depending upon the time of the kill it does not make sense to drive the hour or more back to the camp to get the dog.

As far as Bullet diameter making a difference in blood tracking, I suppose you need some greater experience with the game in Africa. It certainly does make a huge difference to us! It was also a huge difference in Alaska with Brown bear, black bears, moose, and Elk in Wa. State. Maybe the fallow deer you speak of bleed greater or have thinner skin? They are without question a much more fragile animal then a Zerba, wildebeast, Kudu, Eland, etc etc.

[ 09-30-2003, 18:38: Message edited by: JJHACK ]

01 October 2003, 03:53

500grains

Thanks for the excellent recount of a perfect shot with a powerful caliber failing to provide good evidence of the hit. Personally I hope to achieve an exit hole no matter what the angle of the shot, although in the field most shots are probably broadside.

quote:
Originally posted by JJHACK:
I have been reading a few posts here the last few days and one in particular reminded me of a few events in my hunting career. I see where folks talk about the minimum caliber or bullet weight and cartridge for various animals. Lots of guys chime in with their experience and what they have seen happen to others. Thats a great addition the the data base when folks are trying to make decisions.

I think there is a lot of margin for cartridge choices when this kind of discussion comes up. For example in the Eastern Cape or Namibia where the majority of habitat has thin bush or is wide open a smaller cartridge can be used successfully because you can see the animal run for a long way after the shot. This makes tracking a less complicated problem. I have seen Eland, black wildebeast and blesbok run for a mile and never go out of sight. This area will allow easy follow up and recovery. Many times you can see the animal fall and it's 3/4 mile away!

In the more Northern habitat and the eastern Coast line in KZN the bush is so thick and nasty one or two strides and the animal is completely out of sight. This requires a much different choice of cartridge and even the scope choice.

There have been several episodes like this for me. Allow me to give some examples of what goes on when an animal is hit from the experience of seeing this happen many times.

I was hunting with a father and son. We were in the northern province but on a thinly forested section of the consession. The father shooting 300 win mag 180 grain failsafe bullets hits a Zebra. The zebra at the shot ran full speed with the herd of about 15. Around about 80-100 yards out we can still see the dust in the air and intermittantly see the zebras. Then we see the dust cloud moving off to the right but we still see a single zebra in and out of the bush curling around to the left. No way to get another shot with the speed he is going and the bush. The zebra falls, with us having a sigh of relief,..... but he is up as quick as he fell. He continues at a brisk walk now about 100 yards out parallel to us. He falls again and he bounces right back up. He is curling around right to us. Now about 50 yards away we are silent watching for a chance at a finishing shot. He still moves but is staggering and falls a third time. He is down on his front legs but the back end is up. Still no clear shot. We remain silent as he will end up right back where he started in front of us. He wobbles and walks finally falling down for good. No second shot needed.

This Stallion was hit trough the lungs and travelled a solid 300 plus yards in about 30 seconds or so. When We took the photo's and loaded the Zebra I took a walk back on the track looking for blood. Not a drop could be found. I typically do this backtrack just for the educational value it provides and the experience at how these animals function after being hit. I'm also fanatical about tracking and follow ups on game, I enjoy the skills needed to find wounded animals and appreiciate watching skilled people participate in this "trade".

Now imagine this in thick bush where you could not see the animal run. You would be off on the tracks and get to the point he seperated from the group. That is problem #1, which set of tracks to follow? Problem #2 Can you even distinguish that one has peeled off another direction? If you can your now following a set of tracks that have come full circle around with zero blood. Problem #3 Do you continue, or go back to the bigger group? When the track seems to be going exactly back to the starting point it would seem as though it must be an older set of tracks from when they arrived at that site because the Zebra would not have come back to the same place he was shot........ right?

So you turn around just short of seeing the dead zebra. I have seen this exact situation with Eland and Wildebeast as well as impala. Many animals when really sick peel away from the herd becasue they cannot keep up. For some reason they tend to make a circular travel pattern which makes them end up back near the area they were shot, or they bed down, or fall dead heading that way.

This is much more clear when the bush is thinner or even more open as in the eastern Cape and Free state. The advantage there is you can watch the whole thing. In the northen Province your unable to see where the animal went due to the thick bush and must rely on the tracks alone which are dust covered and among a bigger group of 100's of tracks from the herd of game.

I suppose it really does not matter where you hunt. Having too much gun is always better then not enough so long as you can handle it. I just thought I would point out some further differences in cartridge choice which will to a great extent depend upon the habitat your in.

01 October 2003, 07:33

N E 450 No2

JJHACK and MacD37
Excellent posts and right on the mark. My recent Bear hunt in Idaho is a perfect example. I was hunting in heavy forest, even seeing an animal at over 50 yards would be difficult. I shot my bear at 12 to 15 yards, and even with a double rifle could not get a second shot before he was out of sight. My bullet went all the way through him and left a 3"exit hole, still there was no blood on his trail until his final resting place. This is quite common with bears and pigs, even pigs shot through and through with 12ga. slugs.
Because I had a "big enough gun" [a 9,3x74R] and a suitable bullet for the animal being hunted [286 Woodleigh Soft] I did enough damage to his vitals that he did not run very far, only about 3 seconds. He actually covered more ground after he died [gravity assisted] rolling down the mountain.
In these "modern times" there is no excuse or reason not to use "enough gun" or the proper bullet for the job. It makes life much easier on the PH's, Trackers, Guides, Hunters, and the Animals deserve nothing less.
It goes without saying that if you cannot put the bullet in the proper place do not shoot.

01 October 2003, 07:43

jorge

Hack: I certainly learned my lesson when it comes to "use enough gun." I shot my eland with a 375 H&H and I'm convinced that had it not been for the 375's 300gr bullet, a long tracking job would have ensued. Fortunately, I was able to deliver a second shot while he was down on his haunches.

I have a similar observation regarding bears that validates your post. When I shot my black bear a couple of weeks ago, the first shot entered the juncture of the neck and shoulder, appears to have hit the spine and exited ( 225gr Swift A Frame, 35 Wheelen). Although he went right down, I gave him another shot between the shoulder blades that exited between his forelegs. Lots of plumbing in that area. When we lifted him to get him out, there was hardly ANY blood! it wasn't until we got him back to camp and dressed him out that the evidence of the damage and blood loss was evident. It was all pooled inside! I am certainly re-thinking my "light" gun for Zimbabwe. I'm using a 416 for buff, but thinking of a 300 H&H for waterbuck, zebra, sable, etc. Maybe my 340 Weatherby is a better choice. jorge

01 October 2003, 10:15

Canuck

Great post, JJ.

Your points hold true in Africa or anywhere else on this planet. Cartridge and bullet choices must be made with both the animal and the particular habitat you will be hunting in mind.

Two other factors that demand consideration are weather and the time of day that you will be hunting. As an example, I typically choose a heavier hitter if I will be hunting in rainy conditions or in the evening.

Cheers,
Canuck

[ 10-01-2003, 01:19: Message edited by: Canuck ]

02 October 2003, 03:37

1894

quote:
Originally posted by JJHACK:
However the use of a dog is in many hunts non-functional. You won't see me with a dog when stalking or foot hunting remote areas, nor will you when hunting from a blind. .

JJ - May I ask why? My dog walks at heel every hunt I do, I think it 's fair to say I have never lost an opportunity due to her but I have certainly gained some.

I appreciate you are operating in a totaly different environment (of which I have little knowledge) but unless it is heat or dangerous game I cannot see a reason why a well trained dog cannot accompany you on foot or sleep in a blind.

03 October 2003, 11:24

Atkinson

I see bullet failure as the culprit in most of these cases and the failsafe failed, probably didn't open up, although it killed the Zebra..that exposes the famous saying of "at what point did the bullet fail in the death of the animal" made by the Sierra rep, who apparantly has hunted little and his remark rates right up there with the dumbest of remarks every made in the hunting industry......

I have seen these failures with the BarnesX and with the Swift that always expands perfectly but into a very smooth round ball with no jagged edges that cut and saw. The Swifts and the BarnesX work best on large animals like Buffalo IMO.

Bears are another story they have a coat of hair that sucks up blood like a sponge..Even with an exit you mostly get very little blood...

Like JJ I have made a habit of studing animal reaction and can almost tell everytime where the bullet strikes by the reaction of the animal and some react differently according to species...I also have studied tracking for many years and the habits of wounded animals, but they don't always play by the rules and will toss you a curve now and then...

04 October 2003, 04:57

GMaxson

I heart shot a Kudu with the .416 this year that still sent 80 yds. I've had similar hits with a .300 and have had them drop in their track. Definetly a bigger calibre in most cases gives you more of a margin of error though. I've always gone with trying to put the shot right on the front let, not only does that get you in the vitals, but if there is no blood, tracking an animal dragging a broken leg can be even easy enough for me to do [Big Grin]

08 October 2003, 04:16

1894

quote:
Originally posted by 1894:

quote:
Originally posted by JJHACK:
However the use of a dog is in many hunts non-functional. You won't see me with a dog when stalking or foot hunting remote areas, nor will you when hunting from a blind. .
JJ - May I ask why? My dog walks at heel every hunt I do, I think it 's fair to say I have never lost an opportunity due to her but I have certainly gained some.

I appreciate you are operating in a totaly different environment (of which I have little knowledge) but unless it is heat or dangerous game I cannot see a reason why a well trained dog cannot accompany you on foot or sleep in a blind.

BTT for JJHack - I'd be interested in your reasoning why you wouldn't want the dog on foot or in a blind.

08 October 2003, 16:48

JJHACK

Just one more hassle and distraction to the hunt. I'm usually responsible for my hunters success and don't need any dog hanging around when it's not absolutely needed.

If they are for blood tracking that's fine I will use it then. But to have to worry that dog will move or make a sound when the game is about to be shot and blow the hunt, sorry not my cup of tea.

08 October 2003, 17:49

Hoot Murray

I read this thread and it got my interest up. One thing that has been touched on but really not discussed is the choice of bullet and what animal you are shooting it with. On previous safaris in Zimbabwe, I was after primarily large animals. I used the 300 gn Swift A-Frame 375 H&H with great success. However when shooting smaller animals, ie impala and bushbuck, the bullet simply went through without leaving much of a wound channel. This often resulted in a tracking job with little apparent blood trail at least to my eyes. For the trackers, it probable seemed like a paint job on the ground. I never lost an animal, but it was the skill of the trackers that got me the animal.

I went to South Africa this last month and the animal were primarily small. ie nyala, black wildebeast, springbucks and vaal rhebuck. I thought about it for a long while and I finally decided that the 180 gn Nosler Partition in my 300 H&H is the bullet I would use. I never liked them much for hunting here in the United States because there was a lot of bloodshot meat as a result of using them. However, on safari, you don't get any of the meat except what you eat in camp so that issue is null. I found that this choice was a good one as all animals I shot were DRT, even if not precisely shot in the heart. The Nosler front portion simply blows up causing massive hemorraging, the back portion does the penetration. Of 13 animals shot, I only recovered two bullets. Only one animal required a little follow up and that was a blesbuck that was facing me somewhat quartering and because of brush, I had to shoot a little higher on the shoulder than I would have preferred. The animal went about 100 yards and died.