I was wondering what ya'll think about Winchester's new Supreme Elite XP3 bullets in 180 gr. for my .300 WSM. I'm booked for Namibia in Summer of '07 for 14 days. I am planning on taking a dozen or so animals ranging from Klipspriger and Impala to Zebra, Kudu, and maybe another Eland bull. You can find out more about this new bullet design here. In a nutshell, it's supposed to have expansion like a ballistic tip with the penetration of a FailSafe or Barnes X, therefore performing just as well on smaller, light-skinned animals as it does on larger, thick-skinned animals. I am trying to compare it to the regular 180 gr. FailSafe in performance as an "all around" cartridge for my entire safari. Any thoughts would be GREATLY appreciated.

A news release is hardly an relible sorce so I
would wait till someone here uses them. You have
a year. Thanks for the post as I had not known
of them till now. If my trip works out, I will
take some for my 06 and recover a bullet or 2.

ES,

Do what I did..buy some of the bullets and cut them down the center or grind them to the center and see the make up of interior design...
This I did before I went to Zim for buf and ele...

Mike

ElandSlayer
If they shoot good in your rifle I would take some of them on a pig hunt and see how they do. What part of Texas are you in?

It shoots just great. I tested it on a writer's hunt in Namibia this year. I know at least 3 or 4 eland bulls were shot with it, in addition to several kudu, gemsbok, and assorted smaller game. I got great expansion on smaller game and deep pentration (as much as 39" on eland on a raking shot). I have taken 23 whitetails, 2 mulies and 6 head of African game with it and am pretty impressed. You can see the article on my African hunt with it in the March Gun World, which is probably on the newsstands by now.

The new XP3 certainly looks interesting. For what it is worth, I used trophy bonded bear claws in my 300 WSM in RSA in 2004 and they performed perfectly........

What I've seen in all the gun rags is the biggest crock of sh!t that these writers have spewed forth in a long, long time. Do they have a concept of pandering, grovelling, or pimping? No, they take whatever the ammo/gun companies roll out and then talk it up as the greatest thing since sliced bread. All to make an article and get a free hunt. I'd for once like to see someone write, "hey, this XYZ product really doesn't live up to the marketing and frankly sucks."

Winchester is trying to cast off Nosler as a partner and work in their own "home-made" bullet. Otherwise they would have just requested Nosler stick a plastic tip in the Fail-safe's hollow point. There is no way this new bullet performs as well as the Fail-safe; it simply isn't as stoutly constructed. Just look at the photos, the new bullet balls itself up, unlike a Fail-safe or Barnes X/TSX which keep a linear shape and seem to penetrate better.

Also, they claim this big "secondary expansion", where the base of the bullet bulges out - even to the point of rupturing the jacket. And, they are looking at getting a "patent" for the result. If you would only look at recovered samples of Swift A-frames, you will see the same bulge - only the lead doesn't seem to rupture out of the jacket.

I'm not saying the new bullet won't kill game, but to say it is a "better" bullet than the Fail-safe, Barnes X/TSX/MRX, Swift A-Frame, Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, or even the tried and true Nosler Partition is asking me to drink from the chamber pot. Is it in the same league as the Nolser Accubond, maybe? Hey, I got great expansion and penetration on an end-to shot on a mature white-tailed buck last year with a .260 Rem 140 gr. plain ol' Core-lock: that doesn't make it a premium bullet.

At least Federal/ATK has the guts to say their new Fusion is bullet designed for deer and is not in the premium category.

quote:

Also, they claim this big "secondary expansion", where the base of the bullet bulges out - even to the point of rupturing the jacket. And, they are looking at getting a "patent" for the result.

"Let's not call it a bug. Call it a feature". Must be learning from the electronics/software industry.

-Steve

quote:

Wow what a joke, what a slap in the face to all failsafe users that know what the steel support cup in the rear is for... Winchester even knew what the steel cup was for because when the early failsafes didnt have them, they were deemed failures when they expanded in a manner just like the new XP3. So winchester engineered the steel cup in the rear.

Do they really think the public is that dumb? Two stage expansion? So your bullet can expand in the front and rivit in the rear... all the while the rear expansion is being masked by the front OR vice versa. "Here is your bullet folks... may be as flat as a quarter but boy did does it give them a double whammy". Ohh the 5 percenters will buy them and those who stand for everything and thus stand for nothing will to.

I am back from a long Hiatus... or whatever.
Take care.
smallfry

My take when it came out... my take now.

Good points Redlander and Steve.

What we have here is a manufacturer looking to cut the cost to manufacture by changing from the FailSafe to the XP3 design (what is that name *for* anyway?).

Federal did the same thing with Jack Carter's design, and ended up reducing a premium bullet to an average. Check the Tom Turpin & Terry Wieland article in Gun Digest 2006 for details.

At least you have a year to gather information on results from users before your hunt.

jim

Eland Slayer-

I have used the 180gr Fail Safes in Browing A-Bolt and had no problem taking wildebeest, gemsbok, warthog, and impala. I took the wildebeest at 211 yds and he dropped where he stood. They were able to recover the bullet and it did what is was suppose to do.

The PH was wondering how the wsm. would work on afircan plains game and was impressed.

I am heading back to South Affica this may and I am planning on using the same set up for waterbuck, kudu, and bushbuck (hopefully).

I have read a test report in the NRA hunting magainze about the new XP3 bullets and of course they got a good reply with the writer taking an eland with them.

For me, if it ain't broke, don't fix it so I am staying with the fail safe.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanahile:
The new XP3 certainly looks interesting. For what it is worth, I used trophy bonded bear claws in my 300 WSM in RSA in 2004 and they performed perfectly........

I live in R.S.A and used TBBC 180gr in my .308win for 2 seasons with great results. Only time will tell if the XP3's work.....

I'm definitely seeing some good info from both ends of the spectrum here. Perhaps some of you can elaborate on my new question: If I stick to the 180 gr. FailSafe, will it perform ok on the smaller critters? If yes, I'm sure I will probably stick to them. I have great faith in them after using them to take my Eland.

N E 450 No2, I live just north of Houston in Tomball. Actually kind of between Tomball and The Woodlands.

No answers to my above question? Will FailSafes work well on the smaller critters? I may also be taking a Leopard and Dirk (the PH) says that he would prefer that I use the 180 gr. ballistic tips.

I've used 180gr Fail Safes for all of my plains game shooting on two safaris, never had a problem with anything running off. Animals ranged from Thompson's gazelle to eland and everything in between. If your gun likes them I'd go hunting and forget about the bullets not performing.

The XP3 works better on small animals than the Fail Safe.

Redlander,

I sincerely hope your comments were not directed at me. I shoot a lot of animals of various sizes from different ranges and angles before I decide if a bullet is good enough to use. In fact, I have killed 31 animals with the XP3. How many have you shot with it?

Would a magazine let me print it if I said it sucked? Probably not. But you can bet your ass I wouldn't say it was good if it wasn't. Your blanket indictement of my character and that of many of my friends is uncalled for and way off base.

Hey Greg,
Just let it roll off your back. Writer bashing is a sport around here.

Those of us pushing or pulling 50, 60 or 70 years old have seen a lot of products talked up in articles over the years that didn't pan out over time.

This bullet will do fine if properly placed, as will many others. If the front peels all the way back and the lead blows out the sides of the back section it starts to look like a sphere. I'll wait a year or two and see what happens over time. Until then, I'll stick with Failsafes, North Forks or A-Frames for bigger animals and partitions for all around work on medium and lighter animals. I'll also put down $10.00 and say I believe we will hear more about these bullets flattening out on shoulder and leg bones of larger animals. If that doesn't happen, send me a PM in one year and I'll mail you a sawbuck.

LD

I've had the same experience as John S. with 180 gr. Fail Safes in my .300 WSM on two separate plains game safaris. Everything from Eland to Steenbok were taken. Most were one shot kills. Yes it will work on the smaller stuff too.

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:
I was wondering what ya'll think about Winchester's new Supreme Elite XP3 bullets in 180 gr. for my .300 WSM. I'm booked for Namibia in Summer of '07 for 14 days. I am planning on taking a dozen or so animals ranging from Klipspriger and Impala to Zebra, Kudu, and maybe another Eland bull. You can find out more about this new bullet design here. In a nutshell, it's supposed to have expansion like a ballistic tip with the penetration of a FailSafe or Barnes X, therefore performing just as well on smaller, light-skinned animals as it does on larger, thick-skinned animals. I am trying to compare it to the regular 180 gr. FailSafe in performance as an "all around" cartridge for my entire safari. Any thoughts would be GREATLY appreciated.

The answer is easy! Saeed and all other rich people could you please take some XP3's on your next safari as an experiment? This will help out the rest of us (we the peasants) settle our differances.
Thank you in advance

The old adage is true;

New fishing lures are designed to catch fisherman not fish

And new bullets are designed for hunters not for deer.

Will the Xp3 be better than anything else on the market? will it be the end all, be all bullet? NO, but it does and will work if you don't like it don't read the articles about it and don't use it. This bullet won't do anything better than bullets already on the market, but if it kills animals and is accurate in your gun then it works. period end of story.

Marketing works if not we would still be using clubs, spears and lead bullets.

Eland Slayer,

With regard to small stuff like Steenbok, Klipspringer, etc. the Fail Safes, Barnes X's are probably preferable with smaller exit holes and less chance of blowing the animal up.
I would not advise this on Leopard and rather opt for Nosler's (partition or Accubonds) or trophy bonded bear claws.
When you refer to Ballistic tips are you talking about the predecessor of the Accubond? I would avaid this and go with the Accubond. JMO

When I refer to ballistic tips, I'm talking about the Winchester Supreme Ballistic Silvertips in 180 gr. I currently use the 150 gr. on Whitetail here in Texas. I believe they are made with Nosler Partition boattail bullets. I have always gotten great groups with both the Ballistic Silvertips (1 1/2 inch @ 200 yards) and the FailSafes (7/8 inch @ 200 yards) out of my Browning A-Bolt Composite Stalker. Not bad for a gun just under $600! I have it topped with a Leupold Vari-X III 3.5-10x50mm and I love the combination! It just simply works for me.

Eland Slayer: Nope, the Winchester Supreme Ballistic Tips are not Partitions, but similar to the normal std core/jacket/polymer tipped BT bullets made by Nosler. They don't have a partition, but do have that black Lubaloy coating and a "silver" polymer tip