So, here I am, still stuck in Limbo on a decision of which DGR to buy, and have been thinking about the .375 RUM...What do you guys think? Now, granted, I don't even have a hunt booked yet, (I'm still in college, and thus, strapped for cash) and I can get a .375 Ultra (St/Syn) for around $600 dollars or $560 if I want just wood/blued. The price alone appeals to me, and the ballistics are pretty impressive as well. But, you guys and gals are the seasoned vets, so what do you think?

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God Bless and Shoot Straight

Well Saeed's 375/404s are the same thing so I guess that is a strong vote for the 375 Ultra. Although I think the loads he uses are only slightly faster than what the 375 H&H will do.

Mike

I shot my only buffalo with a .375 using a 300gr Nosler at 2550 fps......from everything I've read, buffalo are not impressed with velocity but rather shot placement and as big and heavy a rifle as you can shoot. It I could take the recoil of one of the "big & fast" .375 Magnums shooting a 300gr bullet around 2700 fps (and more) I think I would just move up to a .416 Magnum and have a better rifle.

I think the "charm" of a fast .375 might be in it's versatility to reach out on other game....unfortunately most who buy them don't have the ability of someone like Saeed.

P.S. Kevin Robertson, in his book "The Perfect Shot", suggests loading the .375 H&H DOWN to 2450 fps rather than up past factory velocity.

We've discussed this before on this and other boards but it continues to come up and makes interesting conversation.

While the .375UM might be an excellent cartridge, are you really gaining anything over the old tried-and-true 375 H&H? The recoil is guaranteed to be hell for stout, which may or may not affect shot placement.
Also, Ray and many others on this board and other boards have convinced me that unless you are using solids or X bullets, speeds over 2600 fps or so can lead to bullet failure due to over expansion. I've experienced this also in lesser calibers.

It seems like the only place the .375UM would be an advantage is on very long shots, but with proper ballistics knowledge and practice, long shots don't seem to be a real problem for the original .375 either, so very little gain there also.
I've gone through this decision process at least 3 times in my mind over the .338UM, the .375UM, and other cartridges and keep coming back to the fact that my standard magnum calibers have worked yeoman's duty for me on everything I've shot with them for much less fuss, and are cheaper to shoot to boot, which aids in practice ammo. I hope to have my .375 H&H ready for spring practice so I can plan something in the next year or two for Africa again.
Like the other posters have said, for the additional fuss, I'd just go with a .416 and be done with it. Just my .02 cent's worth- let me get my Nomex underwear on before you all get started, OK? - Sheister

444 - Here are some ideas - Considering that most shots of buff are between 30 and 75 yards, and you will have PH backup, a .375 is quite suitable for buff. If you are looking for a one-gun-do-it-all sorta African gun, a .375 H&H is tough to beat. The .375 is very versatile, it shoots flat, and has plenty of reach without generating excessive recoil.

If you were a two gun kinda guy, I would recommend a .338 and a .416. This combination covers any hunting situation in Africa with plenty of punch. The .416 (.404 Jeffery for Ray) can very effectively address any buff, ele, or lion encounter that you may have.

However, if you are truly looking for a specialized buff stomper, then you need only to consider a .45 caliber - either a .458 Lott, or .450 Dakota, or even a .460 Weatherby. A 500gr pill at 2300 to 2400 fps tends to make a large impression on a buff or ele. It is a lot of gun to shoot, but then again you are playing with the big boys after all.

In any event, I would suggest that you stick with a .375 H&H. The ammo is plentiful in Africa and is well suited for a one gun hunt.

When velocity exceeds 2600 FPS then even solids will do funny things on ocassion, I seen this on several ocassions and have read about it in the recent Man Magnum magazine or was it Hatari times...and a number of other publications by writters whom I respect such as Brian Marsh and a few others, that have hunted Buffalo and Elephant extensively.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Not to mention the probablility that the H&H will still be knocking things down long after readers who run across the RUM's in old literature will have to look them up in the 15th ed of Cartridges of the World under Obsolete. The way I put it for the AR Africa book was:

How much gun is enough? The normal international hunter will find that a .375 H&H, Queen of Cartridges, will do everything he or she needs. Fran�ois Edmond-Blanc of Paris hunted the world and made over 20 African safaris usually armed with nothing but a pair of them. He never seems to have felt handicapped by using a "mere" Class I. Someone who feels a need for a bit more punch can go to any gun store and order a Winchester M70 in the Class II .416 Remington. Such a individual can feel secure in the knowledge that not only can he hunt anything on the planet but can back up his friends, too, if things go south. Personally, I am the sort who doesn't think it's a bad idea to wear both a belt and suspenders at times so I like the .450 Rigby. The effect on game of a Class III rifle has to be seen to be appreciated. Craig Boddington agrees allowing, "these things numb buffalo." Frankly, a Class IV rifle is for bragging and anyone who can effectively use one has a lot to brag about. However fearsome the effect on the shooter, make no mistake, these things work. So, how much gun is enough?

the444shooter,
Of course it would be an excellent choice. Get the factory rifle and become proficient with it, learn the loads and get accurate with it. Then build a CRF one on a Win. M-70, Dakota 76, or CZ 550 Magnum action.

The pushfeed can be your plains rifle and the CRF can be your DGR. You can bypass everything else and utilize the KISS principle with two rifles in the same chambering to cover all bases. Eliminate all the BS this way.

Saeed has refined this even further to two Dakota actioned rifles in 375/404. Common folk like me would go for two rifles based on the CZ 550 action, or the Winchester M-70, chambered in 375 RUM, or the factory Remington M-700 for varminting.

This is the ultimate in simplicity, redundancy, backup, one trajectory, one kind of ammo with a soft and solid that will work in either rifle, etc.

Beware the man that shoots only one cartridge, in two different rifles. He is as close to infallible as it gets, if that rifle is a fast 375, or a 416.

BTW, I find the recoil of any of the 375's and 416's tolerable, and I have shot one hole 3-shot groups at 100 yards with 378 Weatherby and 416 Rigby rifles, and the 577 Tyrannosaur, for that matter.

The beauty of the 375 RUM is that it can be made light and portable and no muzzlebrake is needed for comfort. It will reach out and kill reliably, as well as up close too, if you do your part in selecting the proper bullet and putting it where it needs to go. End of story.

I couldn't resist the factory M-700 in stainless (26" barrel) and laminate stock either, don't feel lonely. I have a CZ 550 getting a custom walnut stock and a 23" barrel chambered for 375 RUM with express sights and barrel bands. I hope to turn a Winchester M-70 stainless synthetic in 300 RUM into a 26" fluted stainless Krieger barreled KISS Princple 375 RUM also.

Then I can trade everything else in on a double rifle, if only I could find a greater fool than I.

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RAB

the444shooter,

Go ahead and buy the 375 RUM, you can hunt anything on this earth with it, and never feel your undergunned.

I've been using a wildcat very similar to it for years now, and hopefully will continue to do so as long as I am hunting.

One thing to bear in mind though. Please use only premium bullets. Forget all normal soft points and those called "lion loads". These are guaranteed top get you into trouble one day.

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saeed@ emirates.net.ae

www.accuratereloading.com

444,

I am mystyfied why anyone would claim a bullet going over 2,600 fps is prone to failure from over expansion???

I cannot even count the number of animals Ive killed at point blank range with noslers, bitterroots, TBBC, plus a few siwfts, Barnes X, Fail Safes and Woodleighs.

I have never had anything like an impact failure.

A FMJ, or reduced velocity SP (Kevin Robertson philosophy) may result in a perfect recovered bullet, but an animal that runs 75 yards after being hit.

I would rather have a ruined bullet and a dead animal at my feet!

I guess I vote for high velocity bullets and critters that dont run away from you after they are hit.

Any of the 375's are OK, and versatile enough that you can shoot a 250 gr on deer to familiarize yourself with the rifle.

The little 250 gr Swift expands to 60 caliber and retains as much weight as a 300 gr nosler.

I rather like the Remington because it has a serious barrel diameter.

Andy

444---Everything the gentlemen above said is true and is good advice. Buying and having a gun is not all function though...it must be fun! Like what Saeed and others said, get the 375RUM...it will do the job, but half the excitement of having a rifle is rapped up in simply wanting the rifle. Get the rifle you want! I would never disparage a .375H&H or any CRF action, but I want (and like) Weatherby actions and Wby calibers, so I shoot a .378 and, based on the want-factor, I brought Weatherby's DGR earlier this year in .416 Wby., and I love it. Beyond caliber and action and riflemanship, bullet construction is probably the single most important technical or functional part of killing an animal that cannot be easily left to personal preference. You must shoot a premium bullet. Get the gun you want and learn to use it!

Robert