Problems with Nosler Partitions?

19 December 2009, 20:51

Reading the “270 Win with 150g Noslers for PG Hunt?” thread posted by chuck375, I noticed that infinito expressed having unspecified problems with Nosler Partitions in the past. This is directly in contradiction with my own experiences. I’ve used (and have seen others use) Partitions extensively with not a single failure, but I’m interested to learn.

Could those with practical Partition experience, particularly of failures, please share their experiences here? Photos would be much appreciated.

19 December 2009, 21:34

MacD37

quote:
Originally posted by Riaan:
Reading the “270 Win with 150g Noslers for PG Hunt?” thread posted by chuck375, I noticed that infinito expressed having unspecified problems with Nosler Partitions in the past. This is directly in contradiction with my own experiences. I’ve used (an have seen others use) Partitions extensively with no a single failure, but I’m interested to learn.

Could those with practical Partition experience, particularly of failures, please share their experiences here? Photos would be much appreciated.

Riaan, I believe this all boils down to what different people consider failier. What many people seem to not be aware of to a large extent is, what the Nosler Partition was designed to do.

Like you I have had excellent results with Nosler Partitions in many calibers and on many animals from coyote to cape Buffalo. The only "ONE-SHOT" kills I have ever had on cape buffalo, where the brain or spine was not hit, have been with a 300 gr Nosler Partition from a 375H&H while all others have taken at least three shots regardless of caliber or bullet type.

The Nosler Partitions were designed to fragment violently, creating a shower of shrapnel inside the chest cavity to destroy a large part of the lungs and heart poking multiple tiny holes in the walls of the chest cavity, while maintaining some of the front half of the bullet's jacket, and core, along with a the partition, and all of the back half of the bullet to punch straight through the internal organs. The multiple "BLEEDERS" this causes, and the explosion of pressure inside the thorax is devistateing to the animal.

It seems some forget the real short time before death of the animal, and judge the bullet by what they percieve when holding what is left of the bullet in thier hand. The fact they they are holding this bullet, retrieved from the now dead animal is proof enough that the bullet did not fail. The pretty pictures of perfectly "MUSHROOMED" partitioned bullets like the A-Frame, make nice advertizing fodder, but that type bullet IMO doesn't do the tissue damage that the Nosler Partition does.

It make no difference what you ask about on the internet you will get as many opinions as the number of folks who reply. Some of them are talking from real experience with the subject and IMO, the largest portion of the respondants will be repeating what they have read on the internet, or heard around pot-bellied stove on the local deer hunter gun shop.

I say dead animals, that die quickly is the only truth you will find that you can depend on. SO, your experience with the Nosler Partition is a much better guide than what someone else tells you!

....................

19 December 2009, 21:52

465H&H

I have been using Nosler Partions in my 270 Win since 1963 and have never had a failure. I have always been more than happy with their performance and completely agree with MacD37s comments.

4665H&H

19 December 2009, 21:57

safari-lawyer

Never a complaint with NP.

I've shot them from 270 all the way up to 375 and lots out of 300 WM. Duikers to Buffalo.

It seems to me that a NP is just about perfect for the majority of game on the planet. I fell victim to the tipped, coated, colored, smothered, covered, diced, capped, and scattered bullet craze (FYI: that was a waffle house reference thrown in there), and after several less than favorable experiences with these new "state of the art" bullets, I've returned to the good old NP.

If it aint broke . . .

19 December 2009, 22:03

Stephen Goldfinch

I agree. Good results with partitions. I hate to hijack, but it relates. Switching this year's PG hunt to the Nosler Accubond in 180 gr. for my Remington .300 Short Action. They seem to work well at the range, and have some pretty decent reviews. Has anyone on here had any negative results with this bullet?

19 December 2009, 22:04

Antlers

I shoot lots-o-NPs and have absolutely no complaints.

19 December 2009, 23:13

Tim Herald

Stephen,

I have shot a lot of different animals with 180 gr AccuBonds, from Kudu, to elk, to gemsbok, to musch smaller stuff, and they have always shot and worked superbly for me.

Like everyone else here, I have had great luck with NP's. I plan to shoot them in Argentina in March for stag and water buffalo in .375.

19 December 2009, 23:14

MARK H. YOUNG

Personally if I had to pick one bullet for all thin skinned animals it would be the Nosler Partition. I would dare say of all the premium deep penetrating bullets that the NP destroys the most tissue and therefore causes a quicker death than any of the others. This notion that a bullet has to retain 90% plus of it's weight to be effective is complete BS. The NP retains 60%-70% and that is exactly what it is supposed to do. The lost bullet weight as others have stated is shrapnel that in effect has acted like a grenade inside the animal.

I'm a big fan or TSX these days but I honestly don't think they give the instant death that a NP will.

Mark

19 December 2009, 23:24

Will

If you have problems with Partitions you'd better look in the mirror for the problem source!

20 December 2009, 00:08

LJS

I don't want to disagree with Will because we all know where that goes but..... I took a 300 H&H to Africa specifically for plains game and a leopard. I experienced bullet breakup on the surface of impalas shot for bait and in one case a bullet fragment wounded a second animal perpendicular to the one I shot. My PH made me put it away and use the 375 I also had with me. I returned the remaining ammo to Federal and received 3 boxes of fresh stock. I didn't trust it so I traded it away. My experience has also been the partition is not quite as accurate as some other alternatives. I use the Accubond whenever possible. I do not think any manufacturer has zero defects but the failures I had were from three different boxes of ammo we tried.
If I were going to Africa for plains game with a 270, I would use Swifts or North Forks. Just my opinion!

20 December 2009, 00:51

Bo Rich

I used a .375 H&H Mag., 300 grain Nosler Partition for a one shot kill on my Cape Buffalo as well. I have used a Partition bullet on Pronghorns to Kodiak bear with outstanding results.

20 December 2009, 01:09

butchloc

for me they are the ferfect bullet, but i did have one failure. we had baited a big bushpig and the night was full moon. when he came in i shot (30:06) anat about 50 yds and low and behold, he ran away. unhit. looking around we was a mark on a small mopane tree. the bullet had gone under the pig and embeded itself in the tree. all there was was the jacket. somehow the lead was left out of the round. only a bit was left in the nose. i should have seen it when i loaded the ammo but didn't. still i believe i've shot over 200 head of big game with that bullet, (plus whatever i missed or had to shoot again) and ptats success enuf for me

20 December 2009, 02:40

ledvm

I don't think, in fact I am sure that I have never seen a post about any bullet that some one did not have a bad experience with. And usually you can even find a person of experience to say something bad about every type.

I take that to mean that there is no "perfect" bullet????

20 December 2009, 03:20

LHowell

Like LJS above, I had one "partition" upon touching the exterior hide on a Blesbuck leaving a softball sized entry wound. It did not kill the animal but did knock it down so the tracked could finish it with his knife.

That was the end of my limited experience with the NP. I switched to the other ammo I had with Barnes X bullets and have never gone back.

20 December 2009, 03:41

Michael Robinson

In my experience Nosler Partitions are excellent bullets.

They are mass-produced, and like everything mass-produced, it would not surprise me if a bad one got through every once in a while.

Still, I don't plan to stop using and relying on them!

20 December 2009, 03:54

Mike_Dettorre

I understand that everything that is shot by them has a problem

Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.

What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.

20 December 2009, 04:17

Mad Dog

Have used the partition in a .270, and .45-70. Also saw my son use the 180 gr. partitions, on a bear in Idaho, and in RSA. Never had an animal get away[with a good shot]. Until I have to, I'll stick with nosler partitions

That being said, I am disapointed that nosler dropped the 300 gr. part. for the .45-70. I have shot numerous hogs, a bear, and 7 head of african plains game, with that bullet.

Mad Dog

20 December 2009, 04:29

eezridr

I have used them from 243 to 375 Weatheby's and never a issue. They just kill animals fast if you do your part. Have shot very large Alaskan moose with 250 NP's out the barrel of my 340 wea @ 2930 fps at 40 yards. Pretty tough impact. You could stick your fist through the exit hole!
About all I use on whitetails and pigs in Texas is a 95 NP in a 243 @ 3100 fps.

20 December 2009, 04:42

Dr. Mike H.

The only problem I ever had was that the taxidermist said the exit holes were to big and made his job a little harder. He did manage to compensate and the mounts are awesome.

20 December 2009, 05:04

Andy

I would agree with Will.

I have been using Nosler Partitions since I started hand loading in the 1970's, and grew up watching my dad shoot a 270 (pre 64) with original lathe turned 150 grain partitions. He killed 22 elk with that rifle, then got up to about 50 head with a 300 weatherby and the old and new style 180 grain.

He then switched to Bitterroots for his last few head of elk.

I think there have been several design changes to the new style (imapct extruded) partition over the years, mostly to fine tune them for enhanced accuracy.

That was probably a mistake as the front end ended up having less copper in the ogive (I think).

A typical "failure" I have seen is in my father inlaws 30-06. I have several recoverd bullets that have blown off front end as you would expect from a magnum, not a 30-06, or no more than two thin propellors left. I tracked one of these elk w him and despite a good hit through both lungs (high shot too which lets them fill up w blood), the tiny entry and bullet path let him go up and down two canyons.

But that is probably a problem w a 30-06, not the partition.

A 300 at close range would have put him down (and ruined a quarter of meat).

Ive had no complaints from 100 and 115 grain 257 bullets which Ive used as all around ranch rifle for 30 years. Everything from putting down horses to ferral dogs.

Andy

20 December 2009, 07:50

dwight1947

I have used 115g Nosler Partitions in a 25-06 for years on whitetails with devastating effect. I hunt large fields so most were shot at around 200 yards. Deer usually just drop. Shot an Antelope in Colorado this year at 270 yards. He was standing on the side of a hill and the guide had me shot 4 times as he said I was shooting high. The Antelope went down after the 4th shot. When we got to it all 4 shots had hit behind the shoulder grouped within the size of a dinner plate. All had passed through and the exit wounds were the same size as the entrance ones. The guide was seeing the dirt kick up and thought the shots were high. I am no bullet expert but seems to me they should have expanded some. Took a new box on the trip, maybe a bad batch.

20 December 2009, 08:32

Indy

quote:
Originally posted by LJS:
I don't want to disagree with Will because we all know where that goes but..... I took a 300 H&H to Africa specifically for plains game and a leopard. I experienced bullet breakup on the surface of impalas shot for bait and in one case a bullet fragment wounded a second animal perpendicular to the one I shot. My PH made me put it away and use the 375 I also had with me. I returned the remaining ammo to Federal and received 3 boxes of fresh stock. I didn't trust it so I traded it away. My experience has also been the partition is not quite as accurate as some other alternatives. I use the Accubond whenever possible. I do not think any manufacturer has zero defects but the failures I had were from three different boxes of ammo we tried.
If I were going to Africa for plains game with a 270, I would use Swifts or North Forks. Just my opinion!

I find this hard to believe. I have shot 15 head of game in Africa with a 180 grain NP, including two Impala, and all were 1-shot kills. All shots exited except for an oblique shot on a Wildebeeste, which retained 108 grains.

20 December 2009, 09:11

Mike_Dettorre

LJS,

You are saying your Nosler Partition exploded on the skin of an impala and fragments wounded another impala?

That is very hard to believe.

Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.

20 December 2009, 09:16

infinito

quote:
Originally posted by Riaan:
Reading the “270 Win with 150g Noslers for PG Hunt?” thread posted by chuck375, I noticed that infinito expressed having unspecified problems with Nosler Partitions in the past. This is directly in contradiction with my own experiences. I’ve used (and have seen others use) Partitions extensively with not a single failure, but I’m interested to learn.

Could those with practical Partition experience, particularly of failures, please share their experiences here? Photos would be much appreciated.

Read also the whole of my reply, and see the story in context. You are making it out as if I think it is a bad bullet.....it is not Riaan....

"Your .270Win is fine, but I'm not a fan of the nosler partitions. 150gr or not. I know that they are very good, I just had too many bad experiences with hunters using them, and it is NOT about bad shot placement."

I could not qualify these problems, as I do not take pictures of all the failures when I'm hunting. If Frederik or the hunter does not do it, then it does not happen.

I also did not quantify the problems, as I again do not keep book of them.

But the problems I have encountered would all relate to hitting bone on angled shots, and resulting in bullet failure. You make it sound that all of them fail? I said I had bad experiences with them, and if you hunt the terrain we hunt in, one bad experience is one too many. This is not the Vrystaat vlaktes where you can drive around after wounded animals if the shot went wrong.

This year I ahd an English client that hunted with me with his .270 Win, and he pitched up with 130gr. Nosler Partitions, forgetting about my advise. He killed all his animals with one shot, including a big "poor mans Buffalo" at about 35 yards. Bullet went in on the sweet shot broadside on, and out the other side. It did not make 60yards.

So, as many other folks also remarked here. Is it a bad bullet. NO. Do I want my clients, hunting PG in the Bushveldt, shooting a 270Win use it? NOT REALY NO, if they have a choice of other bullets.

In the post you reffered to, I gave advise as I would if a guy ask me what to bring on his hunt. I still think it is good advise.

So by the way, I think Nosler Accubonds are great!

Charl van Rooyen
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20 December 2009, 10:26

larryshores

I experienced the same thing as LJS.

In 1991, I was on a 21 day hunt in Hippo Valley. One day while returning to camp, it was requested that I shoot an impala for rations. The shot was close, perhaps 35 yards. Given the angle of the animal, I shot midway through the body cavity with the hope that the bullet would exit behind the shoulder. I fired a 300 grain NP from my 375 H&H. I hit the impala. It reared up on its back legs and I could see all sorts of guts hanging out. I was floored as was the PH. I ran on it's trail finding various organs along the way. When we got to the ram, he had a large number of metal shards on him. We concluded that this bullet had shattered on impact.

By the way, there was absolutely nothing between me and the impala.

20 December 2009, 10:41

Mike_Dettorre

Larry,

I am confused the bullet "exploded" on impact but it blew organs out of the impala's body?

Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.

20 December 2009, 12:13

chuck375

My 270 has always been a bit fast ... I've shot 150g Nosler Partitions with a slightly compressed load of H4831 and Rem Large Magnum Rifle primers for just over 3000 fps chronographed many times out of a 22" barrel. It's done great on animals from antelope, deer, elk and bears (not the brown monsters of Alaska though). It's killed everything I've hit with it almost instantly. My only other load for it is 90g Sierra HPs at 3500 fps, incredible varmint load ...

Chuck

20 December 2009, 12:14

DLS

This thread reminds me of a classic 'failure' I once had with a 180 grain nosler partition I shot out of a 300 win mag. I shot a sable at about 40 yards, and everything forward of the partition was gone. Everything rearward was deformed as the bullet 'riveted' and was totally messed up.

Oh, by the way....the sable went about 10 yards before piling up. I'll take the kind of 'failure' every time!

20 December 2009, 15:37

Stephen Palos

This post again goes to ilustrate what the common enemy of good bullet performance is:

VELOCITY IN TOO LARGE A DOSE!

It seems all the "failures" described above were at 35 yards or therabout. Reliable straight line penetration 100% (ok 99%) of the time will come from moderate velocity. There is but one reason to chase velocity; to achieve LONG RANGE capability.
Clearly some calibres lend themselves to high (for calibre) velocity and this must be taken into account (in charge of load more than bullet choice) when applying these calibres at bushveld type range. I'd say the 270 is one of these. The similar, but not exactly the same 7x57 with its relatively long for calibre (heavy for calibre) bullets were superbly famous for reliable, straight line penetration. And this long before we had a plethora of premium bullets...

So if you are going to load NPs to Weatherby velocities and then shoot animals at sub 50 yards, expect some "failures"!

20 December 2009, 16:07

Will

If you are worried about NP's blowing up at short ranges then use a tougher bullet, like the Swift A-Frame. But when you start using more solid-like bullets you have to follow the critters because most of the time they don't drop like rocks.

20 December 2009, 17:41

larryshores

The bullet I referred to exploded ripping out part of the ribs, skin, etc. I left a big hole that organs hung out of. There was virtually no penetration.

That is the one and only time I have ever seen something like that. If you had been the shards, there would be no doubt that this bullet shattered.

My thought at the time was that I was lucky this didn't happen on a lion.

I don't think the 375 is a high velocity caliber. Hell, if 35 yards is too close shoot something with a 375 factory loads, a lot of us better be rethinking the guns we take to Africa.

20 December 2009, 17:41

infinito

quote:
Originally posted by Stephen Palos:
This post again goes to ilustrate what the common enemy of good bullet performance is:

VELOCITY IN TOO LARGE A DOSE!

It seems all the "failures" described above were at 35 yards or therabout. Reliable straight line penetration 100% (ok 99%) of the time will come from moderate velocity. There is but one reason to chase velocity; to achieve LONG RANGE capability.
Clearly some calibres lend themselves to high (for calibre) velocity and this must be taken into account (in charge of load more than bullet choice) when applying these calibres at bushveld type range. I'd say the 270 is one of these. The similar, but not exactly the same 7x57 with its relatively long for calibre (heavy for calibre) bullets were superbly famous for reliable, straight line penetration. And this long before we had a plethora of premium bullets...

So if you are going to load NPs to Weatherby velocities and then shoot animals at sub 50 yards, expect some "failures"!

Stephen, I cannot agree more.

20 December 2009, 18:00

M 98

If your noslers are exploding on the surface, go up a bullet weight
Last year in Zimbabwae i shot 2 sable 2 kudu, 4 impalas,zebra, leopard with the 06 with 200 gn noslers @2700, the year before i polished of a kempchatka Brown bear with the same load, in all cases the internal damage was more than adeqate
would do it all over again with the same combo with no hesitation

20 December 2009, 19:25

leopards valley safaris

quote:
You are saying your Nosler Partition exploded on the skin of an impala and fragments wounded another impala?

I had the same problem with a client using a 7mm 150gr NPrt on a springbuck at +- 50yrdspenetration was 2-3 inches broke the shoulder but nothing into the gearbox.
I tend to enjoy the barnes X mostly effective at all ranges

20 December 2009, 19:51

LJS

Mike: My shot at the Impala was about 40 yards and the bullet blew up on the surface and a second Impala a few feet away was hit by a piece of bullet. It cost me about a half day of hunting since the second animal led us on a merry chase. Perhaps the close range is the answer. I shot a couple more at close range (less than 50 yards) and had surface breakup. We did not lose any animals but I was not getting any exit wounds on any animals. Massive surface wounds with small fragments into the vitals.

20 December 2009, 21:35

Michael Robinson

That is some weird bullet behavior from a Nosler Partition. I wonder if it was a bad lot of brittle bullets?

I have posted these photos before, but I think they are relevant here.

I shot this steenbok at about 20 yards with a .25-06 loaded with a 115 grain NP. Must have been zipping along at close to 3,000 fps or so at that range.

What you are looking at is the exit wound, which we found after we rolled him over.

This is his heart, which we found a few feet away. It had been blown completely out of the off side of his chest!

Obviously, we did not recover the bullet. Nor did we find any bullet fragments whatsoever.

20 December 2009, 22:09

friarmeier

quote:
Originally posted by Stephen Palos:
This post again goes to ilustrate what the common enemy of good bullet performance is:

VELOCITY IN TOO LARGE A DOSE!

It seems all the "failures" described above were at 35 yards or therabout. Reliable straight line penetration 100% (ok 99%) of the time will come from moderate velocity. There is but one reason to chase velocity; to achieve LONG RANGE capability.

Again, this is right on the money!

In 2008 I shot a bull moose - maybe 800 lbs live weight - with 150 gr. .277 A-frames.

The first shot was lazered (afterwards) at 242 yards. That bullet broke both shoulders and the spine; it "lost" all of its front core (ala a partition), and the petals were smeared back against the rear core body.

The second shot (finisher) was at 15 yards into the neck. Impact velocity was around 3000 fps. That bullet was also recovered. It had smeared its front core and the back core had breeched the jacket and was ejected.

The second shot "failed" in the sense it did not retain its back core; but then, every bullet has its design limitations!

In short, the first A-frame bullet performed exactly as a partition would be expected to!

friar

21 December 2009, 00:04

Idaho Sharpshooter

the only problem, in thirty-one years of hunting big stuff in Idaho with Nosler Partitions; has been finding them in the caliber and weight I wanted.

Rich

21 December 2009, 17:21

mstarling

Like someone previously said ... NPs are just about perfect for thin skinned game! I have no complains whatever.

I do consider that they are relatively "soft" bullets and when I want penetration I use something else like Barnes Xs and TSXs.

Also had very good luck with the solid shank bonded core Rhino in the .458 AR last trip. Seems to be a good bullet for big but thin skinned animals like Wildebeast and Eland.

21 December 2009, 17:46

eezridr

If you section a Nosler partition bullet along it's axis, I believe you will find the 338 and larger bullets have a significantly heavier jacket than 30 caliber and below.
As it has been said time and again in this thread. It is common for the front section of the partition to loose its core. What will remain on the front section is a peeled back jacket but those fragments that are no longer there are shreading other things in the body cavity. It was designed to do this. It also allows for a little smaller front end for better penetration. I have never lost an animal to a NP and most are very quick kills. As also mentioned; there are exceptions to every scenario.
I is funny about these tall tales regarding the toughness of a boars shoulder plate. My little 243 with 95 NP's blow through them like a hot knife through butter. According to the story tellers they are about like armor (LOL).

EZ