Outpouring of disgust as trophy hunter shoots sleeping lion

20 March 2019, 01:56

Jefffive

quote:
Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Guys,

When I hunted lion if I had come across the lion we wanted, he was sleeping in a riverbed and we could get close enough for a shot I would have shot him. Once in awhile in hunting you are presented an obvious gift. I think it is bad luck to reject that gift.

Mark

Mark,
How would you know it was one you wanted if all you were presented with was a view of its belly? Can you evaluate a lion from that angle?

Tracking a lion off a kill and stalking into position for a shot is one thing, this looks canned.

20 March 2019, 02:26

MARK H. YOUNG

Jeff,

We don't know how long they had been watching the lion or from what angle. The video starts as they are walking out into the riverbed to shoot the lion. I'm not sure it was this lion but something like this was posted years back. I don't remember the whole story I just don't think we should condemn these folks without knowing what actually happened.

How many elephants do you think have been shot while they snoozed in the shade? A lot!

Mark

20 March 2019, 02:26

bluefish

Just not cricket.

20 March 2019, 02:29

Jefffive

quote:
Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Jeff,

We don't know how long they had been watching the lion or from what angle. The video starts as they are walking out into the riverbed to shoot the lion. I'm not sure it was this lion but something like this was posted years back. I don't remember the whole story I just don't think we should condemn these folks without knowing what actually happened.

How many elephants do you think have been shot while they snoozed in the shade? A lot!

Mark

I feel no obligation to wake an animal up to shoot it, but I still think that's a canned, probably drugged, lion.

20 March 2019, 09:09

Saeed

quote:
Originally posted by Jefffive:
quote:
Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Jeff,

We don't know how long they had been watching the lion or from what angle. The video starts as they are walking out into the riverbed to shoot the lion. I'm not sure it was this lion but something like this was posted years back. I don't remember the whole story I just don't think we should condemn these folks without knowing what actually happened.

How many elephants do you think have been shot while they snoozed in the shade? A lot!

Mark

I feel no obligation to wake an animal up to shoot it, but I still think that's a canned, probably drugged, lion.

You are probably right.

In Chete, Zimbabwe, we saw a lioness on our way back to camp for lunch.

She was a very large cat, and had half a warthog in its mouth.

She took off when she saw us.

We decided to go to camp, have lunch, then go and follow her.

We did, and as there was very little shade, we found her asleep under a boabab tree.

She was lying hidden from us, and only part of her was vissible.

WE had a discussion, do we wait until she wakes up, or do we wake her up.

There was a chance that as we woke her up she might disappear and we get no shot.

We decided to wake her up.

Roy threw a stone to the side, she jumped up, and I shot her.

20 March 2019, 10:38

Buzz Charlton

Everyone jumping to conclusions before knowing the full story-Who is to say that they had not been tracking it all day and had seen and evaluated the trophy already.

Who is to say they had not already had numerous trail cam pics of it from a bait and followed it out from a bait?

I recognise the river, the Ph and the client. What I can the tell you is this- It aint no canned lion hunt, the Ph is well respected and the client is an extremely ethical and hard hunting gentleman that I have had the pleasure of sharing camp with before and I hope again.

As to shooting the lion lying down my view on that is it is a personal decision. What I do know very well is that the Antis will and do take everything out of context but as fellow hunters please lets not help them with their agenda by back biting our fellow hunters!!!

20 March 2019, 11:17

jaegerfrank

The hunters personal decision. I still think that hunting videos in most cases are very damaging.

20 March 2019, 12:55

ijl

As an editor, I have to be selective about what material I publish. I have my personal bugbears, and I will bin any photos that show hunters sitting on carcasses or posing in any way that implies anything but respect for their quarry, text that can be misconstrued as referencing diesel stalking, &c. I have rejected a number of great trophy pics because the beaming hunter was cradling a rifle with a closed bolt pointed at his head.

Forums like YouTube mean that anyone can post anything, but I would encourage hunters to think photos and videos through before they post - perhaps the PH can offer advice as well. Not only is Buzz correct about the antis, but - also speaking as an editor - I can assure you that the media outlets will be all too complicit, because their bottom line is selling copy to sell advertising.

20 March 2019, 14:38

fairgame

It was this lady who wrote that drivel and apparently the mail is now conducting a search for the hunter to name and shame him.

https://www.facebook.com/TheStephanieHaney/

And this lady is initiating the search

jen.smith@mailonline.com

20 March 2019, 16:00

ChrisTroskie

To whom it may concern:

20 March 2019, 16:44

Bwana Bunduki

it's good to observe the enemy.

She is a millennial that gathers all of her information from a glowing box. Urbanite. Apparently devoid of deeper thought and prone to emotional responses if you look through her Facebbok page.

Case in Point: She still has a post up about the lying criminal race baiting fraudster Jussie Smollet apologizing for his horrible treatment.

Jeff

20 March 2019, 17:19

samir

quote:
Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Jeff,

We don't know how long they had been watching the lion or from what angle. The video starts as they are walking out into the riverbed to shoot the lion. I'm not sure it was this lion but something like this was posted years back. I don't remember the whole story I just don't think we should condemn these folks without knowing what actually happened.

How many elephants do you think have been shot while they snoozed in the shade? A lot!

Mark

20 March 2019, 18:11

DArcy_Echols_Co

Anyone ever shot a bedded deer, elk or pronghorn ? I have plenty of times

If I'm sneaky and silent enough to spot the deer it its bed and put the bullet where its suppose to go, end of story

I like my venison with mashed potatoes

20 March 2019, 18:41

Todd Williams

quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:
Everyone jumping to conclusions before knowing the full story-Who is to say that they had not been tracking it all day and had seen and evaluated the trophy already.

Who is to say they had not already had numerous trail cam pics of it from a bait and followed it out from a bait?

I recognise the river, the Ph and the client. What I can the tell you is this- It aint no canned lion hunt, the Ph is well respected and the client is an extremely ethical and hard hunting gentleman that I have had the pleasure of sharing camp with before and I hope again.

As to shooting the lion lying down my view on that is it is a personal decision. What I do know very well is that the Antis will and do take everything out of context but as fellow hunters please lets not help them with their agenda by back biting our fellow hunters!!!

Buzz is 100% correct on this guys. I also know who the client and PH are and know the source of this film clip. All involved are very well respected people and indeed, this cat was hunted for long and hard and was happened upon going into the blind for a sit.

This is the problem with the antis and we need to recognize it immediately. They will take whatever bit of info they can get their hands on and present it without context, or worse, in false context, in order to create the largest outcry possible. It's one thing for them to get the uninformed masses whipped up against us. Worse when they can pull the wool over our own eyes and get us to turn against each other. Take the recent bruha over Jines' hunt as an example.

20 March 2019, 19:07

Lhook7

quote:
Originally posted by DArcy_Echols_Co:
Anyone ever shot a bedded deer, elk or pronghorn ? I have plenty of times

If I'm sneaky and silent enough to spot the deer it its bed and put the bullet where its suppose to go, end of story

I like my venison with mashed potatoes

Same here, I’m surprised at the reaction of some of the people posting on this thread.

20 March 2019, 19:14

Kathi

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/ne...ed-Illinois-man.html

Article about the hunter in the video.

20 March 2019, 19:15

bcap

Some just feel the need to jump the gun and put anything down anymore. So sad how some hunters buy right in to the anti hunter bs.

They have no facts no details but throw words like canned hunt drugged lion and so on.

Why stuff keeps getting posted on hunting sites that is from the anti side is beyond me. Why help them spread the lies. We just keep help burying ourselves so a few can feel better about themselves.

20 March 2019, 19:36

shootaway

Unfortunately the way hunters view shooting a sleeping game animal depends on their self interest.Who shot it? Is he a friend? Does he give me money? If I don't like the fellow I will bash him and what he did...
This is classic AR attitude.Same for canned hunting, hunting collared animals, hunting near park boundaries etc...If you are against something there is nothing wrong with feeling that way and saying it but don't cry when your turn to be judged arrives.

20 March 2019, 19:40

DuggaBoye

quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:
Everyone jumping to conclusions before knowing the full story-Who is to say that they had not been tracking it all day and had seen and evaluated the trophy already.

Who is to say they had not already had numerous trail cam pics of it from a bait and followed it out from a bait?

I recognise the river, the Ph and the client. What I can the tell you is this- It aint no canned lion hunt, the Ph is well respected and the client is an extremely ethical and hard hunting gentleman that I have had the pleasure of sharing camp with before and I hope again.

As to shooting the lion lying down my view on that is it is a personal decision. What I do know very well is that the Antis will and do take everything out of context but as fellow hunters please lets not help them with their agenda by back biting our fellow hunters!!!

I know them both as well.
This was not canned , nor the lion drugged.

Shooting a "resting" lion after tracking the quarry is somehow not sporting to some of you here--really?

In my book,
On a stalk, you take the shot offered by the quarry.

As to not sporting, not cricket-

Perhaps he should have changed to a loin cloth on the spot and then approached only with spear and knife ?

20 March 2019, 19:59

David W

What Buzz said. Highly respected PH. Not canned, wild area. We don’t know how long they had been looking at that lion. Had it recently fed at one of their baits? They tracked it to the river and found it sleeping?

I agree that videos and photos are going to be the death of our sport...

20 March 2019, 22:03

Jefffive

It certainly appears I was completely wrong.

I stand corrected.

21 March 2019, 06:47

jjbull

quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:
the Antis will and do take everything out of context but as fellow hunters please lets not help them with their agenda by back biting our fellow hunters!!!

This^

21 March 2019, 16:59

KMG Hunting Safaris

quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:
Everyone jumping to conclusions before knowing the full story-Who is to say that they had not been tracking it all day and had seen and evaluated the trophy already.

Who is to say they had not already had numerous trail cam pics of it from a bait and followed it out from a bait?

I recognise the river, the Ph and the client. What I can the tell you is this- It aint no canned lion hunt, the Ph is well respected and the client is an extremely ethical and hard hunting gentleman that I have had the pleasure of sharing camp with before and I hope again.

As to shooting the lion lying down my view on that is it is a personal decision. What I do know very well is that the Antis will and do take everything out of context but as fellow hunters please lets not help them with their agenda by back biting our fellow hunters!!!

Thanks Buzz.

21 March 2019, 18:32

Bwana Bunduki

I will simply say this hunters do as good or better job of eating our own.

On here and other modes of communication.

We cannot win this and will not win this as we simply choose to mount our high horse at every opportunity and tear each other apart.

Frankly I am getting sick of it.

Jeff

21 March 2019, 20:31

MacD37

quote:
Originally posted by Buzz Charlton:
Everyone jumping to conclusions before knowing the full story-Who is to say that they had not been tracking it all day and had seen and evaluated the trophy already.

Who is to say they had not already had numerous trail cam pics of it from a bait and followed it out from a bait?

I recognise the river, the Ph and the client. What I can the tell you is this- It aint no canned lion hunt, the Ph is well respected and the client is an extremely ethical and hard hunting gentleman that I have had the pleasure of sharing camp with before and I hope again.

As to shooting the lion lying down my view on that is it is a personal decision. What I do know very well is that the Antis will and do take everything out of context but as fellow hunters please lets not help them with their agenda by back biting our fellow hunters!!!

Gentlemen Buzz is correct that this was not a doped up lion, and that they knew the quality of this lion before they shot it.

I have this film in my film library and Buzz is correct!

The lion had visited the bait earlier and was filmed with a game camera. They were waiting in the blind for him to come in, and when he didn't show, they got out of the blind a spotted him sleeping in the dry river below. They moved around to get a clean shot instead of trying for him through the bush and maybe wounding him and letting him run off, and die a a lingering death. When they got a clear shot they took him, and assured he would not run off and suffer.

About 80 % of the so-called "doping canned hunt allegations" are just that allegations with no proof!

In this case I know this was a justified kill!

……………………………………………………..

"OPINION"

…

21 March 2019, 21:32

eyeman

quote:
Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
I will simply say this hunters do as good or better job of eating our own.

On here and other modes of communication.

We cannot win this and will not win this as we simply choose to mount our high horse at every opportunity and tear each other apart.

Frankly I am getting sick of it.

Jeff

1+ It seems some people are addicted to fakebook and will suffer the consequences of posting their glory photos..If you drink the potion suffer the consequences.

21 March 2019, 21:47

Ongwe

The only outpouring of disgust I have is for Stephanie Haney and the DailyMail.

Someday I hope to skulk up on a sleeping lion and shoot him.

21 March 2019, 22:11

boarkiller

No amount of “ RIGHT” can be enough for anti hunters
There will always be “ WRONG ” in their hearts and minds
I tried many times to give them the benefit of the doubt and explain things and it always seems to backfire
I simply don’t give a quarter anymore if someone has beef with my activities and if they push it, well, they got another thing coming
Really no different then TDS people ( all the same )

" Until the day breaks and the nights shadows flee away " Big ivory for my pillow and 2.5% of Neanderthal DNA flowing thru my veins.
When I'm ready to go, pack a bag of gunpowder up my ass and strike a fire to my pecker, until I squeal like a boar.
Yours truly , Milan The Boarkiller - World according to Milan
PS I have big boar on my floor...but it ain't dead, just scared to move...

Man should be happy and in good humor until the day he dies...
Only fools hope to live forever
“ Hávamál”

21 March 2019, 22:33

Baker458

I remember an article about 30 years ago, by John Wooters, titled "Hunters, hang together... or hang separately."

To sit back, as I've seen many do, and say "Well, THIS type of hunting is BAD/UNETHICAL etc, but the type of hunting that I do is GOOD/ETHICAL"... you are kidding yourself. The antis hate YOU. They will ruin YOU if they get the chance. Today, it's 'iconic' species. Later it will be others.

Brothers and Sisters, we should be closing ranks.

22 March 2019, 01:33

Victor Watson

quote:
Originally posted by Baker458:
I remember an article about 30 years ago, by John Wooters, titled "Hunters, hang together... or hang separately."

To sit back, as I've seen many do, and say "Well, THIS type of hunting is BAD/UNETHICAL etc, but the type of hunting that I do is GOOD/ETHICAL"... you are kidding yourself. The antis hate YOU. They will ruin YOU if they get the chance. Today, it's 'iconic' species. Later it will be others.

Brothers and Sisters, we should be closing ranks.

You only have to read the last few years worth of posts to realize that a lot of people here on AR have chosen to hang separately. What was once a great source of information has turned into a site of bickering, fake news and sensationalism. If we can’t respect each other as hunters how can be expect non hunters to respect us.

22 March 2019, 02:43

376 steyr

A kill shot with a lot of agony should never be allowed for public viewing. Not in this day!

22 March 2019, 02:57

DuggaBoye

I remember posting a few years ago-
(edit: someone reminded me: Nearly 10 years
ago)
if we allow the concept of animal rights-
we had already lost-

so here we are a few years later- animal rights are escalated in force legislatively at an ever increasing rate around the globe as human rights are deescalated in force .

I took a great deal of critique then-
probably will now-

Non-human animals have no rights , other than those granted by governments/ people-

Any compromised position to that-- we lose-

truly is that simple, we are done here-

glad I am old and will not see the full effect-
loss of our freedoms/rights,
the right to free speech,
the right to self defense,
the right to life,liberty etc, etc--

IT is coming, all of it--

As it appears to me