A cape buffalo charge in Zimbabwe - Hunting with SSG Safaris

12 November 2013, 17:13

quote:
Originally posted by conditionone45:
So glad to hear you are alive and recovering. I was the hunter with Ishmael as the PH and Rabson as the tracker just before you.

Rabson is a fantastic tracker and I enjoyed Ishmael as well. Ishmael was carrying a Model 70 in .375 H&H with solids. I was using a .458 Win Mag with a soft up and solids down. Fortunately, one soft was enough for each of my buffalo. The apprentice game scout on his first mission had an old SKS 7.62X39. Rabson was not armed. Fortunately on the day of your incident there was an extra rifle present and I assume Rabson was using it. It may have made a huge difference for you.

I know the very area you describe and I have some photos of it I can send you if you wish. There is some nasty tangle in some of that area because of an earlier flood.

Grabbing the horns of a wounded buff and being shaken like a rat happened to another AR member somewhere in Sengwe not too long ago as I'm sure you know. I think he called Sengwe buffalo cheeky. Under the circumstances you describe, grabbing the horns was probably the best thing you could have done to keep him from hooking you.

I wish you the very best. If you want any of my photos please drop me a PM.

Thanks you. WOuld love to see your pictures. My email is ptperes@optonline.net.
Best, Paulo

12 November 2013, 17:44

daleW

Post pictures of your wounds too!

12 November 2013, 18:10

Todd Williams

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
quote:
Originally posted by ozhunter:
quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:

The PH carrying any other caliber would not have made any difference.

Perhaps a larger calibre would have made a difference with the shots the previous night. Had those shots been even poorly placed the night before, a larger calibre would have certainly made a difference by the next day.

Why would it make any difference a day later, when it had made no difference before?

If caliber makes NO difference Saeed, why do you use the 375/404 instead of a 243?

Please don't answer because the 375 is the minimum LEGAL caliber, to which I would ask, why is there a MINIMUM LEGAL caliber?

Yes, I understand shot placement is key. We've all heard the "a well placed 375 is better than a poorly placed 500" mantra and I agree, but what about the "a poorly placed 500 will do more damage than a poorly placed 375"? (Personally I prefer the "A well placed 500 is better than a poorly placed 375" but I digress.) For a myriad of reasons, not every shot taken is perfect, and it's in those cases that the larger weapon provides a bit of an edge by inflicting more damage due to a larger wound channel. The more damage inflicted, the better the chances of some of that damage being fatal. Shooting a 375 does not magically guarantee a perfect shot as so many here like to espouse!

For the most part, I'll agree with your statement that nothing short of a CNS hit on buffalo will stop him, but that doesn't always hold true. It certainly doesn't hold true with elephant, but even with buffalo, it's not 100%. Case in point, Aaron Neilson's Global hunter 5 or 6 DVD (sorry I forget which one but it's on the same DVD set). Aaron is using that 577NE that he and I previously owned where upon follow up of a wounded buff, he and PH Phillip Smythe were charged as the buff had been waiting for them. Phillip hit the buff as well as did Aaron, to no avail. As Phillip backed up attempting a second shot, he fell into the tree and was basically pinned there momentarily. Aaron's second shot was into the buffalo's boss but failed to hit the brain and stop the animal. However, the shot DID turn the buff away from pressing home the attack on Phillip.

12 November 2013, 18:20

ptperes

They're not pleasant, Man.:-)

12 November 2013, 18:39

Saeed

quote:
Originally posted by Todd Williams:
quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
quote:
Originally posted by ozhunter:
quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:

The PH carrying any other caliber would not have made any difference.

Perhaps a larger calibre would have made a difference with the shots the previous night. Had those shots been even poorly placed the night before, a larger calibre would have certainly made a difference by the next day.

Why would it make any difference a day later, when it had made no difference before?

If caliber makes NO difference Saeed, why do you use the 375/404 instead of a 243?

Please don't answer because the 375 is the minimum LEGAL caliber, to which I would ask, why is there a MINIMUM LEGAL caliber?

Yes, I understand shot placement is key. We've all heard the "a well placed 375 is better than a poorly placed 500" mantra and I agree, but what about the "a poorly placed 500 will do more damage than a poorly placed 375"? (Personally I prefer the "A well placed 500 is better than a poorly placed 375" but I digress.) For a myriad of reasons, not every shot taken is perfect, and it's in those cases that the larger weapon provides a bit of an edge by inflicting more damage due to a larger wound channel. The more damage inflicted, the better the chances of some of that damage being fatal. Shooting a 375 does not magically guarantee a perfect shot as so many here like to espouse!

For the most part, I'll agree with your statement that nothing short of a CNS hit on buffalo will stop him, but that doesn't always hold true. It certainly doesn't hold true with elephant, but even with buffalo, it's not 100%. Case in point, Aaron Neilson's Global hunter 5 or 6 DVD (sorry I forget which one but it's on the same DVD set). Aaron is using that 577NE that he and I previously owned where upon follow up of a wounded buff, he and PH Phillip Smythe were charged as the buff had been waiting for them. Phillip hit the buff as well as did Aaron, to no avail. As Phillip backed up attempting a second shot, he fell into the tree and was basically pinned there momentarily. Aaron's second shot was into the buffalo's boss but failed to hit the brain and stop the animal. However, the shot DID turn the buff away from pressing home the attack on Phillip.

Todd,

I have dropped a buffalo with the 375/404 into the head without hitting the brain.

12 November 2013, 19:55

ptperes

quote:
Originally posted by daleW:
Post pictures of your wounds too!

They're not pleasant, Man.:-)

12 November 2013, 21:54

EB

Hmm...a question about Global Rescue. I too have GR. The policy specifically says that if you are 160 miles or more from home they will transport you to the medical facility of your choice in your home country. Did you try to contact them and did they specifically say they would only transport you to the "nearest" hospital? If that's the case, they have a problem with their advertising and their policy language.

12 November 2013, 23:18

daleW

quote:
posted 12 November 2013 19:55Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by daleW:
Post pictures of your wounds too!

They're not pleasant, Man.:-)

I can take it, and so can every member of AR.

dale

12 November 2013, 23:23

LionHunter

We have different understandings of what Global Rescue will do. It is not simply the nearest medical facility but rather the nearest medical facility with the capability to provide the proper treatment, which will be determined not simply by the local Doc but by consultation with M.D.s at Johns Hopkins in Maryland, one of the finest medical facilities in the world. They are fully capable of diagnosing over the phone.

In most instances, while in any southern africa country, that will mean a GR transfer to the university hospital (a world class facility) in Johannesburg, RSA, for treatment and stabilization prior to GR transfer back to your hospital of choice in the USA. Depending upon the nature of the injuries, that may require a stay of some days in the RSA hospital, while continuous consultation with Johns Hopkins and stabilization occurs. If medical attendants are required during your transfers, GR will provide them.

You did what you thought best under the circumstances. However, had it been me, either I or my hunting companion would have contacted GR at the first opportunity and followed their advice. Every critical incident in the bush needs to be turned into a learning experience for others.

Also, I am confused by the extensive road travel to get you to a medical facility. Whenever I hunt Zim I am always charged a fee for initial medical air evacuation (MARS?). It is my understanding that this is mandatory and cannot be waived, even for holders of GR. Did SSG not require this?

I have hunted many countries in sub-Saharan africa over the past 20 years, averaging one safari per annum. I have given much thought to how to handle severe injury to myself or my hunting partner while on safari and have consulted with my personal physicians. Worst case is that I expect a 2 hour ride in the rear of a hunting vehicle to the nearest bush runway and perhaps a 10 hour wait for daylight - they don't fly at night. I always have a supply of antibiotics and pain medication, prescribed by my personal physician for worst case scenarios, as rural african clinics and even some hospitals do not have such medications available.

I am truly glad you survived and are on the road to recovery, but I encourage all those who venture into the african bush to spend sometime pre-planning/visualizing what course of action you will take if you or your partner suffer traumatic injury and how you will deal with the immediate aftermath/evacuation. It is not enough to simply buy a policy; you must understand how it works and what it can do for you.

I have started threads on AR previously about immediate first aid steps and the 3 items that should be carried by all hunters IMO - Quick-Clot, an Israeli pressure bandage and a G.I. tourniquet. The discussions were quite interesting and one thing that became clear was that most M.D.s really do not understand emergency medical techniques in current use by the U.S. military to save life in the field. It is quite different than emergency medicine as practiced in a completely equipped and staffed ER in the USA.

Your incident presents an opportunity for all safari hunters to consider the issue of taking a hit while in the bush and how to deal with immediate treatment and evacuation. I hope that your experience and my comments will cause at least some hunters to think about critical incident management. It could save someones life.

Oh, and I completely agree with my friend Todd Williams that a bigger bullet makes a bigger hole. Using a CEB non-con only increases the internal damage that even a poor shot inflicts.

13 November 2013, 00:03

fairgame

Every other client seems to get bashed up in this part of the world. And I have never heard of a PH having to put 7 bullets into a buff.

Reeks of inexperience.

13 November 2013, 00:06

SBT

Great post Mike.

13 November 2013, 01:49

Demonical

Wow! Amazing story!

I hope you recover fully from your ordeal.

13 November 2013, 02:37

D. Nelson

ptperes;

So glad your survived to tell the tale. A good reminder to us all!

Prayers sent for a speedy 100% recovery!

Best regards, D. Nelson

13 November 2013, 03:31

ptperes

As a newby to this forum I have to say that what strikes me most are the
incredibly kind responses I got from so many members around the world.

Thank you all again.

Paulo

13 November 2013, 04:03

ptperes

quote:
Originally posted by LionHunter:
We have different understandings of what Global Rescue will do. It is not simply the nearest medical facility but rather the nearest medical facility with the capability to provide the proper treatment, which will be determined not simply by the local Doc but by consultation with M.D.s at Johns Hopkins in Maryland, one of the finest medical facilities in the world. They are fully capable of diagnosing over the phone.

In most instances, while in any southern africa country, that will mean a GR transfer to the university hospital (a world class facility) in Johannesburg, RSA, for treatment and stabilization prior to GR transfer back to your hospital of choice in the USA. Depending upon the nature of the injuries, that may require a stay of some days in the RSA hospital, while continuous consultation with Johns Hopkins and stabilization occurs. If medical attendants are required during your transfers, GR will provide them.

You did what you thought best under the circumstances. However, had it been me, either I or my hunting companion would have contacted GR at the first opportunity and followed their advice. Every critical incident in the bush needs to be turned into a learning experience for others.

Also, I am confused by the extensive road travel to get you to a medical facility. Whenever I hunt Zim I am always charged a fee for initial medical air evacuation (MARS?). It is my understanding that this is mandatory and cannot be waived, even for holders of GR. Did SSG not require this?

I have hunted many countries in sub-Saharan africa over the past 20 years, averaging one safari per annum. I have given much thought to how to handle severe injury to myself or my hunting partner while on safari and have consulted with my personal physicians. Worst case is that I expect a 2 hour ride in the rear of a hunting vehicle to the nearest bush runway and perhaps a 10 hour wait for daylight - they don't fly at night. I always have a supply of antibiotics and pain medication, prescribed by my personal physician for worst case scenarios, as rural african clinics and even some hospitals do not have such medications available.

I am truly glad you survived and are on the road to recovery, but I encourage all those who venture into the african bush to spend sometime pre-planning/visualizing what course of action you will take if you or your partner suffer traumatic injury and how you will deal with the immediate aftermath/evacuation. It is not enough to simply buy a policy; you must understand how it works and what it can do for you.

I have started threads on AR previously about immediate first aid steps and the 3 items that should be carried by all hunters IMO - Quick-Clot, an Israeli pressure bandage and a G.I. tourniquet. The discussions were quite interesting and one thing that became clear was that most M.D.s really do not understand emergency medical techniques in current use by the U.S. military to save life in the field. It is quite different than emergency medicine as practiced in a completely equipped and staffed ER in the USA.

Your incident presents an opportunity for all safari hunters to consider the issue of taking a hit while in the bush and how to deal with immediate treatment and evacuation. I hope that your experience and my comments will cause at least some hunters to think about critical incident management. It could save someones life.

Oh, and I completely agree with my friend Todd Williams that a bigger bullet makes a bigger hole. Using a CEB non-con only increases the internal damage that even a poor shot inflicts.

Hey Mike,
Thanks for your thoughts and comments.
It's true, it was a risky call to have avoided GR evacuation; I knew then that if engaged they would take me some place in South Africa as nothing better existed in Zimbabwe, at least not that I was aware of.
My concern was to get stuck some place unable to get home and die there.
I did take some comfort in that I had not developed a fever in the 12 hours following the accident and that I had no signs of a clot as both my feet continued to have the same pulse, sensitivity and temperature.
If I had a chance to get home it would be then sooner rather than later.

While hospitalized here in the US the trauma team's concern was muscle compartment syndrome as well as infection. Like yourself I had a good stock of high grade antibiotics and pain killers and first aid stuff. I had a really good pharmacy with me which helped a lot after I got back to camp.

As for SSG requiring any kind of coverages, I don't really recall anything mandatory.
And, w/r/t traveling that long by road to a hospital for the X-ray, it was Nixon who organized the ride with his personal physician on the phone. He was with me all he way there and back. It was really the closest place we could get to.
You could not be more right in pointing out crisis management preparedness; while I thought I had covered the bases with GR, going into further detailed planning for such critical situations (however unlikely) is really a must and I learned my lesson.

I was lucky to have a good friend with me there that was on the satellite phone nonstop with GR, travel agent and a charter company to fly me out to Harare the next morning.

In all, though it was not the experience I had hoped for my first safari,
It ended well enough and I got to get home as soon as I could and hug my wife and kids standing on my own legs.

Thanks again for the comments.
Paulo

13 November 2013, 04:41

Bwana Bunduki

Why would you eschew Global Rescue to organize your own evacuation? Putting faith in someone's "personal" physician? I just can't wrap my head around this entire incident.

Jeff

13 November 2013, 05:06

CCMDoc

Holy crap!
That is one hell of an ordeal.
Glad your alive and recovering and thank you for sharing your experience.

And bigger holes equals more bleeding and more trauma which translates into quicker immobilization.

13 November 2013, 05:28

juanpozzi

As many of you know im an ex military surgeon and i teach tactical medicine to Spec Ops personnel and in my professional hunter courses.
In an emergency YOU NEED TO KNOW ONLY THIS LETTERS A,B,C,D,E
A IS AIRWAY MANTAIN IT FREE
B IS BREATHING YOU MUST HEAR THE LUNGS AND IF YOU SUSPECT A NEUMOTORAX INTRODUCE A GAUZE IN THE MEDIOCLAVCULAR LINE 2ND RIBS SPACE
C CIRCULATION BLLOD FLUID CONTROL HEMORRAGE TORNIQUETS AND PRESURE WITH QUICK CLOT ,HEM COM ,OR SIMILARS. RCP MAY BE NECESARY
D DISFUNCTION NEUROLOGICAL
E GENERAL EXAMINATION OF THE BODY .
To any hunters soldier or guide i recommend the military PHTLS MANUAL ,remember that almost 80 percent of the casualties in IRAK could be saved by two things a TROCAR or Gauze and a torniquet.
All the hunters must take in his jacket a quick clot combat gauze and a CAT torniquet .
If you really want to learn more assist to a tactical medicine course ,you can came here and train with spec ops personnel

Somebody said that civilians drs dont have the experience ,its true ,most of them dont deal with this kind of problems .
I can respond any question so you can ask .

13 November 2013, 05:32

Todd Williams

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:

In close quarters, any hit that misses the CNS is not going to stop the charge, regardless of how big it is.

Followed by:

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:

Todd,

I have dropped a buffalo with the 375/404 into the head without hitting the brain.

13 November 2013, 05:33

505G

yes, please explain some of the buzz words you used and / or the procedure.

TROCAR

NAUMTORAX - A NEUMOTORAX INTRODUCE A GAUZE IN THE MEDIOCLAVCULAR LINE 2ND RIBS SPACE

13 November 2013, 05:37

BEGNO

Glad you survived and doing well. Thanks for the reminder of how dangerous those big SOBs can be. I have been there and done that and know first hand how lucky you (and I)are.

13 November 2013, 05:38

juanpozzi

its a needle of 14 gauge placed in the second interscostal space medioclavicular line .

13 November 2013, 05:39

LionHunter

Hey Paulo,

Thanks for the additional information and defining your thought process during the incident.

I just want to point out to the readers some issues I feel are very important from your postings.

1. Satellite phone availability - You can rent one for the duration of your safari. Don't count on the PH having one in camp nor that it will work or be charged when needed. I or my partner have taken a sat phone on every safari since 2003.

2. Medication availability - Your personal physician should be willing to prescribe heavy duty antibiotics and pain killers for you to take along. If he hesitates, explain the evacuation scenario and what traumatic injuries are possible in the bush. If that doesn't convince him, you need a new M.D.

3. Hunt with a partner - Even on a 2x2 he will be available to advocate for you, stay with you and accompany you when your PH cannot. I have done solo safaris but from a safety standpoint, having a partner could be critical to your welfare.

4. What if? Do preplan critical incident management and understand from both your outfitter and PH what their procedures are, including their evacuation plan, should someone get hit in the bush. Discuss this with your hunting partner so that you both understand the others expectations. If it is your PH who gets hit it may be up to you to take control of the situation initially. You must be prepared to do so.

You did most of these things, and I'm sure they helped you survive. Again, I'm glad you are home and safe with your family. Africa can be hard on the prepared and brutal to those who are unprepared.

juanpozzi -

We would get along famously!

13 November 2013, 05:57

juanpozzi

DG game hunting is dangerous ,not only because of the game ,but you have to ride small planes ,drive 4x4s in bad routes,many insects transmit several mortal illneses -friend of mine Eduardo Gerlero died recently of sleeping illness after a TANZANIA safari-
etc etc.
While PALMER was hunting buffalos here ,he almost lost an eye when he hit a branch in the nigth ,with Sgraves375 i almost stepped n a yarara snake ,et etc But being prepared can make the difference.

13 November 2013, 06:36

Michael Robinson

Thanks, Paulo, for this cautionary tale. And best wishes for your full recovery.

13 November 2013, 16:44

ptperes

quote:
Originally posted by Bwana Bunduki:
Why would you eschew Global Rescue to organize your own evacuation? Putting faith in someone's "personal" physician? I just can't wrap my head around this entire incident.

Jeff

Hi Jeff,

I didn't really eschew anything or place undue faith on anyone's personal doc; the calculus was tricky but not difficult; once it was confirmed that I had no broken bones and the attending physician at the hospital where the x-ray was taken said that although he coudn't positively say that I had sustained no vascular damage, he didn't see any signs of it either. My blood pressure and temperature were normal, the level of pain was consistent with soft tissue injury - albeit extensive - I figured that instead of ending up at yet another hospital, in yet another country, a trip which itself would cost me a few more hours to complete, I might as well use to the time to go home and seek medical attention there. It was the attempt to not panic and make thinhs more complicated logistically. I had business class seats on every flight all the way home so it wasn't a bad option.

13 November 2013, 16:47

ptperes

quote:
Originally posted by juanpozzi:
As many of you know im an ex military surgeon and i teach tactical medicine to Spec Ops personnel and in my professional hunter courses.
In an emergency YOU NEED TO KNOW ONLY THIS LETTERS A,B,C,D,E
A IS AIRWAY MANTAIN IT FREE
B IS BREATHING YOU MUST HEAR THE LUNGS AND IF YOU SUSPECT A NEUMOTORAX INTRODUCE A GAUZE IN THE MEDIOCLAVCULAR LINE 2ND RIBS SPACE
C CIRCULATION BLLOD FLUID CONTROL HEMORRAGE TORNIQUETS AND PRESURE WITH QUICK CLOT ,HEM COM ,OR SIMILARS. RCP MAY BE NECESARY
D DISFUNCTION NEUROLOGICAL
E GENERAL EXAMINATION OF THE BODY .
To any hunters soldier or guide i recommend the military PHTLS MANUAL ,remember that almost 80 percent of the casualties in IRAK could be saved by two things a TROCAR or Gauze and a torniquet.
All the hunters must take in his jacket a quick clot combat gauze and a CAT torniquet .
If you really want to learn more assist to a tactical medicine course ,you can came here and train with spec ops personnel
Somebody said that civilians drs dont have the experience ,its true ,most of them dont deal with this kind of problems .
I can respond any question so you can ask .

Hi Juan,

I think i answered your questions on the details about the PH, the ammo and rifles used,etc... but feel free to write to me at ptperes@optonline.net if you have any other questions.
Paulo

13 November 2013, 16:58

ptperes

quote:
Originally posted by BEGNO:
Glad you survived and doing well. Thanks for the reminder of how dangerous those big SOBs can be. I have been there and done that and know first hand how lucky you (and I)are.

Hey Butch,
I learned from Jay Southam yesterday, who was also kind enough to send me some really good picttures of the Sengwe camps and his beautiful buffalos, that you too had the very same experience; only instead of you and Ishmail it was you and Nixon!
Wow, what a coincidence!

Nixon never told me that he had gone through the same; but he did say that doing what I did is what they teach aspiring PHs and children in general when faced with a chargin Buffalo. He said too that whether or not I knew that it was the only thing to do it didn't matter as knowing what to do and doing it, in this case, are very distant things because it's such an unatural response. Most people will attempt flight rather than fight. I just didn't think i had that option.

13 November 2013, 17:55

BEGNO

Yep, August 2011. My hunt report with pictures is posted. I went back in March of 2012, shot an even bigger buff and a very nice elephant. I am returning in July 2014 for a father/son Buffalo hunt.

13 November 2013, 23:00

Dogleg

I'm glad you made it and are recovering.

Question, was every hit on the buffalo with a solid of one type or other?

13 November 2013, 23:58

EB

Juanpozzi, It what area of Tanzania did your friend contract tryps?

14 November 2013, 07:45

txlonghorn

quote:
Originally posted by 505G:
yes, please explain some of the buzz words you used and / or the procedure.

TROCAR

NAUMTORAX - A NEUMOTORAX INTRODUCE A GAUZE IN THE MEDIOCLAVCULAR LINE 2ND RIBS SPACE

I am going to clarify some of Dr. Pozzi's word for the layman. A Pneumothorax is a collection of air in the chest cavity causing partial collapse of the lung thus difficulty in breathing. A trocar is just a large needle which can be inserted into the chest cavity between the ribs to relieve the trapped air thus reinflating the lungs allowing the patient to breath. I think they have developed a chest dart for Iraq and Afghanistan which is the same thing except that it may have a one way valve so air can escape and not reenter the chest cavity.

ptperes: I'm glad you came through ok. Compartment syndrome is a real risk with your injury and if not treated immediately with surgery, you could have lost a limb. It was risky move to travel with such an injury.

15 November 2013, 00:38

juanpozzi

I dont know exactly where he was hunting ,see EDUARDO GERLERO SCI ARGENTINA CHAPTER DEATH .
Remember two things a TROCAR needle and a torniquet ,thay can save your life .

15 November 2013, 03:21

Rule 303

Glad you survived and with what I feel could best be described as minimal injuries for the occassion. I am no expert but I believe you thinking and actions save you from far worse.

I would think that a biger hole lets more fluid out and more air in.

Where does one obtain Quick Clot and a CAT torniquet from?

15 November 2013, 03:31

ptperes

Indeed; it could have been far worse. I'm very lucky.
As for the medical supplies, I too would like to know when to find those in particular.
P.

15 November 2013, 03:36

ptperes

quote:
Originally posted by Dogleg:
I'm glad you made it and are recovering.

Question, was every hit on the buffalo with a solid of one type or other?

The bullet from my 416 was a Barnes TTSX (copper solid with blue plastic tips) and it was only one hit.
The hits from my .375hh which was used by my PH also had the same kind.
The bullets from my PH's 375hh, which was used by Rabo, had only brass solids.

15 November 2013, 06:24

juanpozzi

Just any tactical store have quick clot -its zeolite volcanic sand-and CATs tourniquets .Hemcom its another product similar than quick clot thats very usefull ,its made with the same substance -polisacaridos-of the crabs and camarons .

15 November 2013, 06:34

Sean Russell

camarons = shrimp

You do need to be aware of this -I have a friend that went into cardiac arrest from a shell fish allergy when the hemi-con was applied.

15 November 2013, 10:13

Rule 303

I use to be able to pick up a product that did the same thing called Styph Wool In Australia. have not been able to get it for years. Will have a look around and see what I can find.

15 November 2013, 10:24

Dogleg

quote:
Originally posted by ptperes:
quote:
Originally posted by Dogleg:
I'm glad you made it and are recovering.

Question, was every hit on the buffalo with a solid of one type or other?

The bullet from my 416 was a Barnes TTSX (copper solid with blue plastic tips) and it was only one hit.
The hits from my .375hh which was used by my PH also had the same kind.
The bullets from my PH's 375hh, which was used by Rabo, had only brass solids.

Gotcha, I misinterpreted this to mean solids.

quote:
In my 416Rigby I had 400 grain Barnes ballistic copper solids and so did my 375 (300 grains).