Re: 8X68s in standard Mauser action

01 July 2004, 13:07

Andrï¿½,

Your rifles looks very interesting. I am looking forward to shoot them as soon as possible

01 July 2004, 12:01

<JOHAN>

Andrï¿½

I think you will have two fantastic rifles when they have been customised

I recommend that you order a special bottom metal for the 8x68S and open the action soo the bullets can be seated out a bit. A competent gun smith can open the action quite easily.

Have you read Harald Wolf's article about the long rifle? Harald built a very nice 8X68S with a very long barrel. The article has lots of good information.

Any news about the CDP ammo? RUAG CDP bullets are avilable as reloading components if you prefer home rolled.

Cheers
/JOHAN

02 July 2004, 15:06

JefferyDenmark

Johan

WOW 28 or 29" I might have to try that

What about Diameter 17 mm ??
I e-mailed Recknagel yesterday for a catolog, I will need a tree position safety and a band swirl and some king of grip cap in steel like the one NECG have.
29" I am tempted

I think 28 " pretty god.
I like long barrels for of-hand shooting.

Cheers,

Andrï¿½

02 July 2004, 15:31

M1Tanker

How does the 8x68 compare ballistically to the 8x57 and 8x64? It certainly sounds like an impressive cartridge.

02 July 2004, 15:44

JefferyDenmark

I am telling you this... I am telling you this

It is a monster

0-300 meters within 8,6 inches

with a 200grn bullet in .323 (8mm) at Vo 3116. (factory ammo CDP)

You can get a lighter bullet but that is fast enough.

The cartridge does not have a belt like 300 winni and beats it with a bigger and heavier bullet.

Study it and you will end up with one

Cheers,

Andrï¿½

02 July 2004, 23:23

<JOHAN>

Andrï¿½

Didn't I send you the article?

If memory serves me correctly Harald took and old Argentinian mauser barrel that was drilled and rebored.

Cheers
/ JOHAN

03 July 2004, 03:09

500grains

What kind of pressure does the 8 x 68 generate? Is there any chance of setting the lugs back due to pressure? I am not trying to be negative, but the early 300 Weatherbys built on FN mausers trashed the actions with regularity because of the pressure that they generated.

03 July 2004, 10:31

JefferyDenmark

You might have a point 500G I do not know waht pressure. But the cartridge is pretty hot.
The action must be re-hardened.
Johan I know, for a fact, that Harald used the 29" barrel from one of the 7,65x53 Argentine rifle from where he also got the action ( a Mauser Modelo Argentino 1909 from DWM )
I am thinking about doing the same.
The idea of having a 29" rifle is growing on me

and I like the feeling

I played around the graden with my 7,65 argentine rifle today to try out the feeling of the long barrel and I must say it felt pretty god, for off-hand shooting.
However I do not know if it helpd the cartridge 8x68s with a longer barrel.

I will try to contact Harald Wolf and ask him what volocities he gets from his long rifle.
I like the word LONG rifle alot

it has a nice respectful and majestic kling to it

Cheers,

Andrï¿½

03 July 2004, 10:45

<JOHAN>

Andrï¿½

I think you shall ask Harald about the action. He has worked with the argentines and magnum cartridges to know what to do.

What barrel make will it be? Shultz&Larsen oor Border?

Cheers
/ JOHAN

03 July 2004, 11:24

JefferyDenmark

Johan

I might use the old 7,65 from one of my Argentine army rifles just like Harald did. Look I have a 29" barrel

Quote:

Johan I know, for a fact, that Harald used the 29" barrel from one of the 7,65x53 Argentine rifle from where he also got the action ( a Mauser Modelo Argentino 1909 from DWM )
I am thinking about doing the same.

If not I will have Shultz & Larsen make me one. 75 cm

Cheers,

Andrï¿½

04 July 2004, 03:42

Marterius

I just saw the dimensions of 10.75x68 mm Mauser, which fitted in a standard Mauser action. They must have produced a bit of pressure as well?

/Martin

04 July 2004, 07:35

JefferyDenmark

Martin

The 10,75x68 should be very pleasant to shot. The 8x68s, on the other hand, is a real kicker

I cleaned one of my DWM's yesterday and the other one is due today it takes about 3 hours

One of the later DWM a H production one is not made as well as the A production one I have

.
I will post pictures of this when I get the last one cleaned up.

Cheers,

Andrï¿½

04 July 2004, 23:16

dutchgus

According to my information the maximum pressure for the 8x68S is 3900 bar, the same as for 338Win, 375H&H etc.
For the 10,75x68 it's just 2900 bar which is even less than the 9,3x74R with 3000 bar.

05 July 2004, 21:00

JefferyDenmark

Thank you

I wunder what pressure a normal Bullet Vs. barnes would create.

Cheers,

Andrï¿½

05 July 2004, 21:14

Con

Hey guys,
Quit the 8x68S talk!

I've a ZG47 with shot out barrel that I really wanted to turn into a 9.3x62 but then thought... what about an 8x68S? No sooner had I thought that and I found 2 boxes of 8x68S cases, a second-hand set of RCBS dies and you guys started posting about it.

A higher power seems to be telling me that my ZG47 wants to become an 8x68S with a lovely 26" barrel shooting maybe a 250gr Woodleigh.

Cheers...
Con

05 July 2004, 22:53

kamaatu

Johan,
the 8x68 S is a wonderful calibre. Comparable with the 338 WSM. However, I would be careful using it in a standard system. The S stands for "stark" (german) meaning strong load. The pressure is similar to magnum calibres and I've seen a standard action beeing blown up by the pressure the 8x68 creates. However, it is a wonderful calibre and very well suited for african hunting. My old man built one himself with a 29" barrel and has been using it ever since.
One more thing, get yourself the reloading equipment as the ammunition is very expensive.
Regards Kamaatu

05 July 2004, 23:13

JefferyDenmark

kamaatu

How does the 29" barrel on yout "old mans" rifle work what is the increase inperformance.
In Europe the ammo cost the same as 300 win mag.
I thought the "S" was for Schï¿½ler as in August Schï¿½ler.
I am buliding a 8x68s rifle and would very much like a long rifle with a 29" barrel.

Cheers,

Andrï¿½

05 July 2004, 23:34

kamaatu

Andre,
the increase performance compared to a 26ï¿½ barrel is not all that much. For hunting purposes it shouldnï¿½t make any difference. Maybe a couple of fps more but not worth mentioning.
I will try to find an English article about the S, I read one in German a couple of years ago.
There should be some info in ï¿½cartridges of the worldï¿½ as well.
I am very astonished about the low prices you have to pay in Sweden. Try to find out what a pack of RWS (KS = Kegelspitz) will cost. In Namibia you pay about double as what you would pay for more commonly used calibres like the .300.
See ya
Kamaatu

05 July 2004, 23:45

JefferyDenmark

kamaatu

I can get RWS KS for 500 DKR that is about 520 Rand and about 510 Namibian Dollar

I might sound like a lot for you but that is the price of ammo in DENMARK (NOT SWEDEN) we have 25% wat on everything.

I can read German no problem, my dad is from Germany so just e-mail me the article you have in German.

Cheers,

Andrï¿½

05 July 2004, 23:55

kamaatu

Andre,
sorry about the Sweden part.

Anyway, here is a link to a website.
As soon as I've found the article I'll mail it.
Kamaatu

http://home.snafu.de/l.moeller/8x68S.html

05 July 2004, 23:59

Alchemist

Hello gentlemen, I'm just another Norwegian who's been lurking around here for a long time, but only recently registered.

I might be able to shed som light on the mysterious "S" in the 8x68S terminology. According to my sources, it dates all the way back to the introduction of the 8x57IS in 1905. The S stands for Spitzgeschoss, meaning spitzer bullet. Its predecessor, 8x57 I (Infanterie), introduced with the Gew. 1888, featured a round-nosed bullet. With the 8x57 IS the Germans chose, for reasons unknown to me, to alter not only the bullet geometry, but also the diameter, from .318" to .323". The groove diameter of new barrels was altered accordingly, whereas the land diameter remained unchanged at .312". The smaller diameter was kept alive in sporting rifles from various manufacturers, and the two calibres existed side by side until about WW2. Several other 8 mm chamberings appeared along the way, e.g. 8x60, 8x64 and 8x75 in both rimmed and rimless versions. And most notably, all of them existed in two bullet diameters, the larger .323" or so-called S-diameter being the more common. The two diameters were distinguished by addition of the suffix S to the larger diameter, i.e. 8x60S.

By the time of the introduction of the 8x68S shortly prior to WW2, the different diameter nonsense had come to an end, and the 8x68 calibre was made only with the .323" S-diameter bullet. But by force of habit and to avoid any confusion about its actual bullet diameter, the 8x68 was given the S suffix.

The misconception that the S stands for Stark is a common one, and it is possible that the implication S for Stark has been used in marketing schemes by RWS or other ammunition suppliers.

- John

06 July 2004, 00:09

JefferyDenmark

John

Welcome to the forum.

I think you are right it sounds like the s would explain the caliber. I know i is for Infanterie (IS=Infanterie spitzgeschoss) and J is for jagd (Jagd Spitzgeschoss)

I will try to learn more about the calibre

Cheers,

Andrï¿½

06 July 2004, 00:15

montero

Alchemist,
welcome to AR. your post has been very enlightning as I had always believed the reason with the change of diameter to 8,2mm had had to do with the prohibition to Germany, enforced after WWI and the Treaty of Versailles, of producing weapons and ammo in the previous military diameter (.318".
I alos thought the S in all 8mm S, came from the German word Schwer, meaning "larger" or "fatter" refering to the larger diameter of the new 8,2mm bullets.
Regards,
montero

06 July 2004, 00:46

Alchemist

Thanks guys for the warm welcome!

Andrï¿½, I belive that the JS or Jagd Spitzgeschoss term is just another misconception. Most pre-war German literature is written in Gothic script, and the Gothic "I" looks just like a normal "J" to us non-Germans. Hence, the 8x57IS has been often been given the erroneous designation 8x57JS outside of Germany.

At least this is what I was told by one of Norway's leading authorities on firearms history, the late Svein Solli. May he rest in peace.

- John

06 July 2004, 00:52

<JOHAN>

Gentlemen

If one uses a action in good condition, I doubt that shall be any problem with the 8X68S.

I think it will be a great round. No silly belt and 8mm is in the middle of 7,62 an 8,5. Is there anyone who has any experince about between 338 win and 8X68S on game?

kamaatu, the S is just like Montero wrote to point out the difference between 0.318 and 0.323 bore. I had a few rifles camberd in both I and S

Regards

JOHAN

06 July 2004, 00:55

Alchemist

Montero, the introduction of the S-diameter certainly predated WW1 and the Versailles treaty.

However, you do have a point, as the introduction of the 8x60 and 8x60S calibres was a direct result of the Versailles treaty, prohibiting manufacture of firearms in military calibres. The 8x57 I and IS had always enjoyed great popularity as sporting rounds, and with their prohibition, the cartridge case was simply lengthened 3 mm to create the 8x60 calibres. The 8x60 is only marginally more powerful than the 8x57, and feed without problem out of actions designed for the 8x57.

- John

06 July 2004, 05:09

JefferyDenmark

John

Thank you for the info once again

It is a real pleasure to have you on the forum.

Keep it up old chap.

Cheers,

Andrï¿½

06 July 2004, 21:27

montero

Muchas gracias, John.

I am an 8mm fan and I appreciate your highlights on the subject.

montero

08 July 2004, 23:33

<JOHAN>

Andrï¿½

Any news regarding the ammo?

What did you think about the recknagel products?

Cheers
/ JOHAN

08 July 2004, 23:51

JefferyDenmark

Johan

I got the Tecknagel catalog yesterday and I am very impressed, they have some very nice products for customs rifles. The catalog is a must have.

I did however not get a price list but I will talk to the distributor later today.
I will get a magnum magazin box for the action and enjoy the freedom of setting depth.