The Accurate Reloading Forums
Elephant Charge
21 May 2004, 00:56
patrkyhntrSaeed, remind me not to apply for the job as your photographer when the current one resigns (LOL). That looked exciting, to say the least.
I am afraid it was not be shooting.
I forgot who this gentleman is. I took the photos from an old hunting book. Cannot remember which one though.
I am in the process of making a list of the books I have read, and will post it on the Book Forum.
21 May 2004, 01:27
NickuduWhat Charge? He's standing at the shot.
21 May 2004, 01:55
Rich ElliottSaeed,
The distance he fell from the shooter is just about how close they would get before we could even SEE their outline in the Forests and Jungles of SW Ethiopia.
Rich Elliott
Bah...look at the size of the elephant compaired to the hunter. The bloody things only a baby.
21 May 2004, 02:33
nainitalVery impressive...do you know the gun�s caliber?. These seem rather big barrels.
The book is called "Cambaco" (SP?) which is portuguese for rogue or something. I have the boo translated into spanish. This gent is the Portugeuse version of Tony Sanchez Arino. The book is a great source of info on al aspects of African hunting, rifles, etc. It is dated however especially when he talks about bullets. He really eschews the old Kynoch ammo and speaks WONDERS about period american bullets, like Remington Core-Lockts, Power Points, Silvertips etc. jorge
21 May 2004, 03:07
smallfryThe Book is "Elephant Hunting In Portuguese East Africa" By Jose Pardal. I highly Recommend this book, the author was very advanced for his day. He used his own lathe turned flat point solids, and shot a gun he described as a "460/500" ... basicly a 500 A square. He lived in Mozambique from 1935-1975. The double rifle he is holding is not discribed in the text of the series of pictures, but he used several.
21 May 2004, 03:25
Outdoor WriterBakes,
The results of using a long telephoto lens! It foreshortens the distance between objects quite nicely. I'm sure you've see photos of telephone poles all in a line where they look like they're only a few feet apart. In reality, they are probably a hundred yards apart.
A WA lens has just the opposite effect. -TONY
saeed,
great pictures.
Can I put in the new big game hunting italian revue: Cacciare a palla ?
Thanks
21 May 2004, 03:27
Dago RedWhen I first saw the title of the post I thought maybe it was a Visa commercial.
Red
21 May 2004, 03:34
BwanamichI have this book and it is sure good reading. highly recommended....
What I find interesting is if you look at the sequence of pic 3,4 and 5, you can figure out how quickly the shooter returns to target after recoil! The elephant is brained and there must be hardly a second between pic 4 and 5 which shows the shooter basically "back on target". Quite impressive I would say.
21 May 2004, 04:40
BoghossianNo matter how far the bull, or how open the terrain it is still a damn good shot and the thrill of being charged must have been incredible!
Is it possible he urged the animal to charge as it was so popular to do back in the day?
Mario,
You are welcome to use them, but I suggest you credit them to the book they came from.
The Book is "Elephant Hunting In Portuguese East Africa" By Jose Pardal.
Cambaco is the name where it appears in Spanish and Portuguese. As a matter of fact, Danile M, who posts here and lives in Spain, kindly gave me the book. For the unenlightened, Portuguese East Africa is the original name for Mozambique. jorge
21 May 2004, 06:27
b.martinsSaeed,
These photos are indeed from �Cambaco� a book by Mr.Jos� Pardal, a great hunter and PH.
Mr.Pardal has published two really magnificent books (Cambaco I and II) giving a vivid and breathtaking account of his Mozambique years.
I have those two books (signed by Mr.Pardal) and I will try to translate the story behind those photos and post it on the forum.
By the way: Mr.Pardal, that is still alive and probably on his late 70�s now, went back to Mozambique about 4 years ago for a last safari.
B.Martins
Tony
Yeah I know.....I was just fishing for a bite by seeing who'd I get explaining it to me. Sorry mate you bit!
Just my Aussie humor comming through
21 May 2004, 10:38
MLindsayRich, That distance is much longer than 90% of the elephant encounters in the rain forest!
Mike
21 May 2004, 10:59
Nickudu
21 May 2004, 12:51
MLindsayRich,
The elephant is much closer than 90% of the elephant encounters in the rain forest!
Mike
Aww com-on Nick....thats a plastic elephant in a pot plant
You'll have to do better than that mate.
21 May 2004, 22:16
BoghossianThe look in that bugger's eye is a bit 'unsettling'...
21 May 2004, 23:26
b.martinsQuote:
Very impressive...do you know the gun�s caliber?. These seem rather big barrels.
Nainital,
The gun Jos� Pardal is using is a .475 n.2 Jefferys.
Quote:
The book is called "Cambaco" (SP?) which is portuguese for rogue or something.
Jorge
"Cambaco" is an african word (Changani dialect) for old and lone elephant.
This elephant was a problem elephant (wounded) that was attacking the villagers.
Those pictures came from a movie made with an old "Payard Bolex" 16mm using Kodakrome filme, and the cameraman was standing about 25 meters behind the hunter.
The hunter was at half way between the cameraman and the elephant.
The elephant dropped on the first shot but that can't be seen on the sequence as the cameraman stopped filming when the elephant was charging! (To much for him!)
The elephant got up and a second shot put it down (the cameraman had recovered by then!).
B.Martins
MR. Martins: Thanks for the insight into the history behind the photo. Tony Sanchez Arino knows Mr. Pardal and I had the opportunity to chat with Tony regarding him. I love the book, I constantly go back and re-read passages from it, especially his views on calibers and ballistics. jorge
22 May 2004, 02:50
Rich ElliottYeah, You can literally bump into a leg...looks like just another tree. That's why we always used the lung shot. After studying for 30 minutes you could usually figure out where they were in relation to the other pieces you ID'd.
Once my wife drilled one right through the open spread ear though. Never will figure that one out! P.O.'d elephant for sure but it took off instead of charging. You never know. SHe had seen the tusks earlier. Two ivory shafts poked out of a big
green screen < !--color--> and then went back in. Good bull but funny anatomy
Rich Elliott
Rich,
One time in Chete, we saw two young bulls standing in the shade of a tree near the Senkwe River.
There was a larg ant hill a few feet downwind from them, so we thought we will try to see if we can get to the ant hill without disturbing them.
We got the ant hill, and as we climb up slowly, we realized how close the bulls were!
One had his rear end less than 10 feet from us.
Walter called us a bunch of stupid idiots!
22 May 2004, 05:29
Rich ElliottSaeed,
That's what's called up close and personal!
Rich Elliott
22 May 2004, 15:31
AtkinsonAfter studing the photos, I seriously doubt that they are 100 yards apart, for several reasons, one being elephants tend to have a short bubble and don't normally charge from a 100 yards out..two the charge appears intense...three, off hand killing a charging elephant frontally at that range would be rather unusual and somewhat of a sideshow..If I had a double and only two shots I would let him close to at least 50 yards before I shot, and my next shot would be more like 15 where I could not miss...My guess is the charge began at about 50 yards or less and the hunter got off two shots and killed the elephant..but then I am not a camera person, soooooo???????
22 May 2004, 17:53
LV EricI would rather be in that spot than any place in the world. Wow what a feeling!!!!!!! That too me would feel better than the WHOLE Dallas Cowboy Cheerleader Squad. I'm not jokeing. Damn I'm jealous. I have only had one charge in 9 elephants and I didnt handle it that well. until I stop a charge myself it just wont sit right with me.
22 May 2004, 18:03
smallfryRay.... in my book "Elephant Hunting in Portuguese East Africa" which is in english by Jose Pardal, he says he "...fired at a distance of some 10 meters..." that is the text under pic 3 in this thread.
23 May 2004, 06:11
AtkinsonLVEric,
I agree, it is an exilerating experience..Some folks like to bungy jump, some drive race cars, some ride broncs and bulls ( I/ve done that a lot ) but to me the biggest rush in the world is a charge from a Lion, Buff or Elephant..This isn't everybodys "thang", but I live for it, I don't make it happen, but when it does I get pumped to the hilt and the after math is incredible...
I read a lot on the talk forums about how this is a terrible thing to deal with, and no one wants it to happen, but if that is so, then why in the world would one hunt "dangerous game"?? that approach does not make since to me...
Guess everyone swings different!
23 May 2004, 19:59
Dave JamesRay, Eric, or any others who have been charged by the Elephant, every thing over the years that i have read stated they flod their ears back while charging, Do you think thats true normally? Or didi the PH in the photos perchance just catch him as he decided to press the issue?
Quote:
I read a lot on the talk forums about how this is a terrible thing to deal with, and no one wants it to happen, but if that is so, then why in the world would one hunt "dangerous game"?? that approach does not make since to me...
Ray
Every hunter BOTH wants one and also doesn't!
Quote:
The results of using a long telephoto lens! It foreshortens the distance between objects quite nicely. I'm sure you've see photos of telephone poles all in a line where they look like they're only a few feet apart. In reality, they are probably a hundred yards apart.
A WA lens has just the opposite effect.
Everything Tony says here is true, except the claim that this series of pictures was taken with a telephoto lens. They may have been, but it looks to me more like they were taken with a normal lens.
24 May 2004, 11:26
Outdoor WriterLE270,
From another message in this thread:
>>...and the cameraman was standing about 25 meters behind the hunter.<<
I doubt a normal lens would provide the perspective in those photos with the camera more than 80 feet behind the hunter.
Most of those old Bolex Pailard cameras were set up with a turret that had three lenses, with a 16mm, 25mm AND 75mm as a common arrangement. Not sure what the focal length translation for the 75mm telephoto would be from the 16mm to 35mm equivalent, but my guess is that was the one used. Also, I believe other longer focal lenses were also available up to 150mm or so. -TONY
24 May 2004, 12:34
LV EricQuote:
Ray, Eric, or any others who have been charged by the Elephant, every thing over the years that i have read stated they flod their ears back while charging, Do you think thats true normally? Or didi the PH in the photos perchance just catch him as he decided to press the issue?
When I was charged it happened so fast that all I noticed was the head was down and that cow wasnt stopping for awnything. I wish I could relive that monent.
I have since been in a few more than several situations where I/we could have prevoked a charge, but that aint real and I would NEVER do it, we'll let MS do thaqt and sell a few more movies for the green peas.
Sure a charge is where the rush is but so is the moment before the first shot knowing damn good and well it better count. The better shot you are and better you control your nerves & adrenelan(SP?) the less likely you will have a problem because the initial shot "should" be a fatal shot.
Since I shoot well and have good control in tight spots it is less likely for me to be in a charge situation in the future. My PH and I have discussed this topic many times. We agree that it is something some hunters have and others dont, the ability to make that first shot count by controlling their nerves and not shooting the lion in the leg from the blind. I'm not judging anyone here just making an observation. On the flip side if a dog barks at me unexpectadly I jump 3 feet in the air and run, nothing scares me more. But put A 375 in my hands I dont care how pissed or fast that lion is.
