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Need help identifying this antelope
23 June 2004, 09:03
270Model70Need help identifying this antelope
I'm still learning the various antelope of Africa and need help with this guy. Was taken by my Grandfather back in the early 70's on one of his 2 trips. So I'm not sure exactly where he was hunting when he got this one. Thanks for any help.
BTW, I'm speaking of the spiral horned antelope in the center next to the Roan.
Brian
23 June 2004, 09:10
Aspen Hill AdventuresLooks like it could be a lesser kudu. Do you know what country he shot it in?
23 June 2004, 09:21
AtkinsonLooks like a Eastern Cape Kudu to me, but could be a small Great Southern Kudu I suppose...I think he is too large to be a Lesser Kudu, but the photo is pretty dark.
23 June 2004, 09:27
Rich ElliottB. Doerr,
Maybe it's the picture but it just doesn't look right to me. The markings are like a lesser kudu but the hair looks way too long and the body just isn't right. It also had the same markings as a bushbuck but those are kudu like horns.
I've seen a few lessers with thicker than usual horns like that but they look more like small greater kudu horns. It even resembles a mt. nyala in some respects but the throat marking should be more of a chest chevron and I've never seen a mt nyala with 2 1/2 turns. What two countries did he hunt?
Rich Elliott
23 June 2004, 09:31
270Model70Ray, the picture's not dark, your eyes are just getting old
With the dark paneling, it is kinda hard to make out the details. Sorry.
I'm not certain where this one was taken. His first trip was to Botswana and he took his greater Kudu there in the Kalihari Desert. Along with a lechewe and sitatunga in the Okovango. The second trip was to South Africa and I suspect that's where the antelope in question was taken. Since S. Africa has game ranches, it may not be an indigenous species. But it sure looks like some sort of Kudu to me.
23 June 2004, 09:38
Rich ElliottIt's a southern bushbudu!
Rich Elliott
23 June 2004, 09:41
GeorgeSHmmm, it has ears like a kudu, coloration like a bushbuck, horn conformation of a lesser.
Could it have been something the taxidermist concocted? Do you know for a fact that your grandfather shot this animal? Are there any photos of it in the field?
George
23 June 2004, 09:43
Aspen Hill AdventuresI think Rich got it right.
23 June 2004, 09:53
Bill CNote to self:
Get brass plaques listing animal, location hunted and date shot, and/or write same on back of trophy.23 June 2004, 10:11
270Model70Bill,
I feel the same way. When I finally go to Africa and have the trophies mounted, I'll have a way for visitors to identify them. My Grandfather used to alway tell me about them when I was a kid, but I guess I wasn't really too interested back then and didn't pay attention. He's been dead for 9 years now, and I've done a lot of forgetting since then. I can identify the Cape Buffalo, Wildebeast, Greater Kudu, Hartebeast, Sable, Oryx, even Sitatunga and Lechewe, but the lesser known ones really have me stumped.
He has a bunch of slides from his hunts. I'll have to track down a viewer and try to find a picture of this one from the field to verify that he actually took this mixed up critter. If it's got all you experts stumped, it's a strange one indeed. Thanks to all who've chimed in.
23 June 2004, 10:15
BFaucettThe image was dark on my computer too, so I lightened it up a little.
-Bob F.
23 June 2004, 10:34
Nickudu
Aren't the two white throat patches and the lack of a "beard" characteristics of lessers? or do other kudu derivatives sport them also.
23 June 2004, 10:52
Rich ElliottOdie,
That is not a lesser kudu. This is a lesser kudu. Note the short hair and narrow face and body. This is the new SCI # one by the way.
Rich Elliott
23 June 2004, 11:03
AtkinsonThe color and marking are those of a Eastern Cape Kudu during the cooler seasons when the cape is very pretty, and the horns match those of a an Eastern Cape Kudu..I am 4relitively sure its a Eastern Cape Kudu or a small Great Southern Kudu.
23 June 2004, 11:20
Rich ElliottRay,
What about the absence of a throat mane? Does it disappear during the cooler seasons? Also, Is there a white throat and white chest patch on that sub species of greater kudu?
I agree it's greater kudu horns but the rest just doesn't correlate.
Rich Elliott
23 June 2004, 11:29
NickuduLesser Kudu
Is that not an eastern roan mounted next to him? As Odie mentioned, no throat beard is the giveaway.(?)
23 June 2004, 11:31
Bill CThe animal to the left of the kudu-in-question in the picture (right on the wall) looks like a nice southern Roan. It might have been shot on a game farm in SA. Below is a picture of one I shot last year in the Caprivi Strip, which is not far from the Okavango, and perhaps back in the early 70's they could be hunted there (?).
Out of curiosity, what is the general condition of the trophies, now that it's been 25-30 years since they were mounted. I've often wondered what mine will look like in time. Thanks!
In any event - I'm sure your grandfather would be pleased with the attention his trophies are receiving!!!
23 June 2004, 11:42
NickuduBill, This may all be the taxidermists doing!
This fella has no sign of a mane, anywhere.
23 June 2004, 15:14
eric 98Whatever it is, it looks kind of angry.
23 June 2004, 15:30
NickuduI think it must be a big sitatunga. The horn configuration is a bit unusual but it would explain all the other discrepancies such as the shaggyish coat, the frontal markings, the lack of any mane or chevron and would fit in with the stated hunting locales.
If that's a sitatunga, it's gotta be the all time #1. I'm with the general concensus of an eastern. Then again it could be a jackalope sorta thing. A buddy of mine in Texas has a deer with 22" per side brahman bull horns on it his grandfather had done in the 50's. You would swear it was real...
23 June 2004, 16:15
NickuduB. Doerr did say a sitatunga was taken. I'll stay with it.
It's just too darn big and vaguely marked for a lesser and I have never seen or heard of a kudu lacking mane or chevrons.
23 June 2004, 16:29
270Model70Nick,
I'm still not sure what this fella is, but it's definitely not the sitatunga. The sitatunga is mounted over on the other wall (I have a picture somewhere on another computer) and is much shaggier than this one in question.
Unfortunately, after about 35 years, the general condition of the trophies is not very good. The hair is slipping on most of the ears. I"m not sure if better care could have been taken and if that would have made a difference over the years. Do you sometimes need to spray them with an insecticide to keep little buggies from munching on the capes?
23 June 2004, 16:32
Nickudu
I'd sure like to see that other picture!
The mount is half the size of the adjacent roan and an adult kudu would be at least as large. Sitatunga!
23 June 2004, 22:54
Rich ElliottSitakudu
I'm outa here.
Rich Elliott
23 June 2004, 23:39
NickuduI'm disappointed Rich. When I saw you had posted again, I thought you were going to agree with me!
I emailed the photo for expert opinion (tough from a photo) and will post any response. What fun!
B. Doerr, Any chance the animal on the other wall looks llke this?
24 June 2004, 01:51
Aspen Hill AdventuresWith it being next to the waterbuck, it looks too small to be either a SG Kudu or a EC Kudu. The markings and lack of mane are not consistant either for kudu.
24 June 2004, 03:43
NickuduGlad someone is finally coming around to my way of thinking!
Sitatunga!
24 June 2004, 03:57
NickuduHup! This in from Brent Huffman, the boss at ultimateungulate.com.
Quote:
Hi Nick,
Thanks for your question - and the mysterious photograph! You are definitely headed in the right direction, and there is little doubt in my mind that the head belongs/belonged to a sitatunga. This was my gut instinct, based primarily on the NECK - from the photo, the boundaries of the throat patches are not very distinct, and the coat appears quite shaggy overall. Definitely more sitatunga-like than that of the very fine, short coat of the lesser kudu (with razor-sharp edges to their markings). The horns are a little confusing, since their spiral doesn't really fit the pattern for a SPECIFIC tragelaphid. They DO have a heavy spiral similar - like those seen in lesser and greater kudu - but they twist very close to the axis rather than "looping". While sitatunga USUALLY have looser curves with one twist, anything from (almost) no turns to two spirals, with and extreme variations in between are known.
That's my assessment - I hope it satisfies your inquiring mind.
Brent
Brent Huffman
Manager, UUP
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
THE ULTIMATE UNGULATE PAGE
Your Guide to the World's Hoofed Mammals
www.ultimateungulate.com
24 June 2004, 05:40
270Model70Nick,
As promised, here's the picture of the Sitatunga. (Unfortunately you can see how the mount is starting to deteriorate around his ears.) I'm pretty sure he only hunted one sitatunga, so I'm still not sure what the original, mystery fellow is.
Thanks for your help in trying to clear up this mysterious antelope. When I'm back in Texas in the fall, I'm going to go thru the old photos and try to determine if there's a field picture of this critter.
Brian
24 June 2004, 05:57
AtkinsonAfter inspection of the second picture I notice some very different peculiarities one being the missing white spot on the jowls, the white markings on the throat...I don't know what it is, but I have a hunch that Nick hit the nail on the head when he said someone substituted a cape and I think maybe a form also....the larger close up really got my attention..It could be a lesser Kudu, a very large one with a greater Kudu form, thats my best guess, and if so it is a really big boy.
24 June 2004, 05:58
b.martinsBrian,
To me this last mount is a bushbuck, not a sitatunga!
I will go with Nickudu: the first mount has to be a sitatunga (at least the cape is!)
B.Martins
24 June 2004, 06:11
NickuduB. Doerr - I think that is a typical Nyala, a bit worse for wear, over the years.
No way is it a sitatunga.
My only question now is, where is the kudu?
24 June 2004, 06:23
270Model70Nick,
I'm bowing to your superior knowledge. What I thought was a sitatunga all these years has to be a Nyala. I compared my photo to several Nyala on various sites on the internet and it's a very good match.
I also agree that the cape on the mystery antelope is that of a Sitatunga. But the horns just don't look right. As Ray pointed out, they look more like Kudu horns. But the only Kudu he took is a typical Greater Kudu and I definitely haven't been misidentifying it all these years. I have the Kudu photo on the other computer and will try to post it soon.
This is starting to clear things up and I appreciate everyone's help.
24 June 2004, 06:31
NickuduB. Doerr, I have no great knowledge, merely a wagonload of photos!
I suggest you read again, the posting with the email from Brent Huffman. He is a true expert. Note he states the potential for great variation in sitatunga horn configuration. I see no mystery now, especially if you have a another mount you now think is the kudu. (?) This was a heck of a lot of fun. Thanks for that! I look forward to seeing all the pictures!
P.S. - I can only hope that Rich Elliot fella runs into an escaped sitatunga in the Sonora. After 40 years in Africa, it's time he learned what they look like!
...
24 June 2004, 06:32
Aspen Hill AdventuresQuote:
Nick,
As promised, here's the picture of the Sitatunga. (Unfortunately you can see how the mount is starting to deteriorate around his ears.) I'm pretty sure he only hunted one sitatunga, so I'm still not sure what the original, mystery fellow is.
That is definitly a nyala.
You have one of my trophies pictured above and here is the other nyala I killed:
24 June 2004, 06:43
BergerI suppose this has already been settled (I think) by the posts, but I'm never quite sure. The first animal is a greater kudu and the second is a nyala - no doubt.
24 June 2004, 13:01
270Model70Here's the Kudu he took in the Kalihari. Next to it should be a Red Lechwe from the Okovango.
I'll have to post the rest another time. I downloaded them on my parent's computer and then accidentally deleted them from the camera. So I have to have them emailed to me which is quite a chore for my technologically challenged parents.
24 June 2004, 13:36
NickuduB. Doerr - That, my friend, is an eland!
Just Kidding!