Is a Savage Model 116 in .458 a good rifle?

04 April 2002, 13:36

<trafgip>

I know there have been some discussions about this gun in the Forum. I have been searching for a reasonably priced DGR and was wondering about the Savage. I saw one at the gun store and liked its looks. I have never owned a savage product because my perception of its reputation of being a low end type product. The gun I was looking at seemed to have good fit and finish and cost over $900. I have heard some bad things as well as good, Ruger, Remington,Winchester and CZ. Would I be making a mistake by choosing the Savage?

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[This message has been edited by trafgip (edited 04-04-2002).]

04 April 2002, 14:40

<allen day>

I have a hard time envisioning someone with the financial wherewithal to hunt Africa's "Big-Five" plus hippo (legitimate .458 territory) with a Savage bolt rifle. It just doesn't make sense - sort of like wearing rubber bottomed packboots to a fancy cocktail party.

I get the feeling that most of the guys buying that combo want a .458 Win. Mag. to play with at the range or do some stateside hunting with. When experienced dangerous game hunters insist on well-tuned, controlled-feed bolt actions, they ain't just a woofin'........

[This message has been edited by allen day (edited 04-04-2002).]

04 April 2002, 15:47

Atkinson

I have to agree with Allen...

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

04 April 2002, 19:15

Rusty Gunn

The Savage Safari rifles have a CRF action, but of different design then a Mauser (I believe a European maker is doing basically the same thing now).
This one uses their extractor as is, with a ball detent near the bottom of the bolt face to act as a "holder" for the rim as it's being held, with a cut-out at the bottom of the bolt face. It also has a Mauser type ejector.
Does this count?

I too like these rifles, and wouldn't mind one in 375 H&H (I'm already having a 376 Stery made, so this one will wait, if I finalize my decision to buy) ~~~Suluuq

05 April 2002, 01:23

Die Ou Jagter

I guess I am all wet as I just ordered a Savage in 375. I only know my Savage rifles in 300 win mag and 22-250 shoot like a dream. This may not be the prettiest gun around but they shoot great. My Mod 70 I use for Africa in 338 has been restocked with a composite thumb hole stock and has a break on it and painted in camo. My G*d I must look like a fool on Safari. The only thing I know is every time I go on Safari, Mark (PH) says is "you are bringing that 338", eh. Oh yea I am going to take the stock off and replace it with a Fiberglass thumb hole stock from MPI.
[This message has been edited by The Old Hunter (edited 04-04-2002).]

[This message has been edited by The Old Hunter (edited 04-04-2002).]

05 April 2002, 03:16

MacD37

The Savage is only a starting point to build a DGR, and with a little tweeking by a REAL gun smith it could be made into a decent rifle. I find that Savage rifles do shoot very well out of the box, but that isn't what you need for a DGR. I have to agree with Allen, if you have a $900 ass, then protect it with a $900 rifle. The fact is though, you can buy a better place to start from to build a DGR for less money. If my total budgit for a DGR was $1000 I would start with a good used BRNO 602 458 or a new CZ 550, and then do the bedding myself, and make sure the thing feeds properly. Either of these would be a good platform for a re-chamber to 458LOTT at some later date.

Like Allen says, however, if all you want is something to play with out at the range, which is where most 458s are used, then do your thing with the Savage! It will kick, throw big heavy bullets at a target, and generally impress the local ak 47 boys at the local shoot-um-up range!

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..Mac >>>===(x)===>
also DUGABOY1
DUGABOY DESIGNS
Collector/trader of fine double rifles, and African wildlife art

05 April 2002, 03:34

sdgunslinger

If you care to spend $900 on a rifle , why the hell would you even think of a Savage ? There are many more refined designs selling for the same money or less ......

[This message has been edited by sdgunslinger (edited 04-04-2002).]

05 April 2002, 04:33

500grains

Savage makes an accurate rifle for a low price. $900 for a savage is way out of line when the CZ550 sells for $650 and is an inherently more reliable design.

Savage also missed the boat by making a 458 win rather than a 458 lott.

05 April 2002, 05:57

<trafgip>

quote:
Originally posted by 500grains:
Savage makes an accurate rifle for a low price. $900 for a savage is way out of line when the CZ550 sells for $650 and is an inherently more reliable design.
Savage also missed the boat by making a 458 win rather than a 458 lott.

Thanks for everyone's responses. It's helpful. I did speak with a big game hunting guide and he said his favorite rifle is the 602 Brno in .458 which, I think, is similar or the same as the CZ 550. He has had 3 stocks from that rifle break in three years or so. He finally had to custom reinforce the stock and has had no problems since. He does recommend it highly.
Unfortunately, I would like a rifle that has as few problems, like stocks breaking, out of of the box as possible. Maybe that's not possible in that all non-custom guns may have inherent weaknesses from fit and finish to overall design.
Also, I don't want to spend several thousand dollars for a rifle if I don't need to.
Savage has a "trailor park" image based on my ignorant perception. I have never owned one. Should I avoid a gun because of this image?
I guess my question is does the the Savage have enough quality to shoot the 458 round as well as the other manufacturers. It sure looks well made to me. Maybe if I was more concerned about impressing someone with a real fancy shooter I could cough up several thousand dollars for a custom type.
Will the Savage kill a big game animal reliably as well as the other guns chambered for this caliber is what I'm trying to say. I could get the Winchester or Remington but have heard negative things here also.

05 April 2002, 06:28

GeorgeS

pigfart,
Based on simple economics, it would cost you less to buy a CZ 550 .458 and have the stock re-bedded and reinforced than it would to buy the Savage 116SE at $900.
You'd have a Mauser-style CRF rifle that holds 5+1, instead of 3+1 just in case you run into some Capstick-esque "mano a mano" battle with a buff.

Don't base your DGR decisions on price or snob appeal. Base it on what works. Few mass-production "DGR" rifles are ready-to-hunt; with some judicious investment in time, money, and labor, most can be turned into a reliable hammer.
A $5000 rifle that won't feed is worthless in the hunting fields. A $600 rifle that is 100% reliable is worth staking your life on.
George

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Shoot straight, shoot often, but by all means, use enough gun!

05 April 2002, 07:46

Die Ou Jagter

I don't know where you are being quoted the price, but the price form my new in the box 375 Savage 116 SE is (hold on to your hat) $440. With that price I can restock and glass bed and still be well under the $900, eh.

05 April 2002, 08:06

<trafgip>

quote:
Originally posted by The Old Hunter:
I don't know where you are being quoted the price, but the price form my new in the box 375 Savage 116 SE is (hold on to your hat) $440. With that price I can restock and glass bed and still be well under the $900, eh.

unfortunately, I shop in Los Angeles County. The price for "common" guns is somewhat competitive.
However,the dealers look at this caliber as "special" compared to other guns they commonly carry. The gun retails for around $1000 so they do not cut much of a break on this seldom carried item.
Also, finding a releaible gunsmith here in Los Angeles might be hard to do and I'm not too interested in shipping one off to someone I don't know without a referral.
Who could I send this gun to, if I bought it, to do some refinements bringing it to the next level of quality?

05 April 2002, 08:15

<trafgip>

quote:
Originally posted by GeorgeS:
pigfart,
Based on simple economics, it would cost you less to buy a CZ 550 .458 and have the stock re-bedded and reinforced than it would to buy the Savage 116SE at $900.
You'd have a Mauser-style CRF rifle that holds 5+1, instead of 3+1 just in case you run into some Capstick-esque "mano a mano" battle with a buff.

Don't base your DGR decisions on price or snob appeal. Base it on what works. Few mass-production "DGR" rifles are ready-to-hunt; with some judicious investment in time, money, and labor, most can be turned into a reliable hammer.
A $5000 rifle that won't feed is worthless in the hunting fields. A $600 rifle that is 100% reliable is worth staking your life on.
George

George, your the only one to pick up on my user name. Now I'm a little embarrased.
I really like the looks and feel of the Savage. I think I'll get it and take your advice on getting this out-of-the-box gun worked on a little eventhough I could do the same thing with the CZ at a lesser cost.
Looks probably should not matter but I guess it does to me.

05 April 2002, 08:18

<trafgip>

quote:
Originally posted by sdgunslinger:
If you care to spend $900 on a rifle , why the hell would you even think of a Savage ? There are many more refined designs selling for the same money or less ......
[This message has been edited by sdgunslinger (edited 04-04-2002).]

I know about the CZ, thanks to this Forum. What other rifles are there that you would recommend for less $ that woulbe adequate?

05 April 2002, 08:24

<trafgip>

quote:
Originally posted by allen day:
I have a hard time envisioning someone with the financial wherewithal to hunt Africa's "Big-Five" plus hippo (legitimate .458 territory) with a Savage bolt rifle. It just doesn't make sense - sort of like wearing rubber bottomed packboots to a fancy cocktail party.
I get the feeling that most of the guys buying that combo want a .458 Win. Mag. to play with at the range or do some stateside hunting with. When experienced dangerous game hunters insist on well-tuned, controlled-feed bolt actions, they ain't just a woofin'........
AD
[This message has been edited by allen day (edited 04-04-2002).]

I appreciate your response, thanks. I don't want to look like a buffoon.

05 April 2002, 08:30

<Phil R>

Just so you don't feel taken advantage of by your dealer, the wholesale price on the 116SE in .458 mag is a few dollars under $700. The previous post must be thinking of one of the other 116 models.

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Phil- Life Member NRA & SCI

05 April 2002, 09:41

<trafgip>

quote:
Originally posted by allen day:
I have a hard time envisioning someone with the financial wherewithal to hunt Africa's "Big-Five" plus hippo (legitimate .458 territory) with a Savage bolt rifle. It just doesn't make sense - sort of like wearing rubber bottomed packboots to a fancy cocktail party.
I get the feeling that most of the guys buying that combo want a .458 Win. Mag. to play with at the range or do some stateside hunting with. When experienced dangerous game hunters insist on well-tuned, controlled-feed bolt actions, they ain't just a woofin'........
AD
[This message has been edited by allen day (edited 04-04-2002).]

Allen, it sounds as though a 458 cartridge fired out of a Savage will not do what a 458 will do out of another maker's gun. Will I be laughed at or something if I show up at a hunt with the Savage?

05 April 2002, 09:54

GeorgeS

quote:
Originally posted by trafgip:
Also, finding a releaible gunsmith here in Los Angeles might be hard to do and I'm not too interested in shipping one off to someone I don't know without a referral.
Who could I send this gun to, if I bought it, to do some refinements bringing it to the next level of quality?

You could try Ray Riganian over in Glendale.
If he doesn't do the sort of work you need, he may be able to refer you to someone capable.

George

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Shoot straight, shoot often, but by all means, use enough gun!

05 April 2002, 10:23

<allen day>

When I was twenty years old, I made friends with a fellow who had done a lot of hunting, including all of Africa's dangerous game, and he knew a thing of two about fine & reliable rifles as well.

He had several .375s, .416s, doubles, etc., and most (all of the doubles were) were highly refined custom jobs. Stupidly, I asked him why he bothered to spend such important money on that kind of armament. His answer was simple and straight to the point: "It's a matter of your money or your life........ Your money or your life...... Just what's your life worth to you, anyway?"

It's like Mac said, if your ass is worth at least $900, then you'd better insure it with at least a $900 rifle!

Let's face it, it's not hard to spend $40K on quality elephant hunts these days, not to mention mixed bag hunts that include members of the other Big Five.

Now what sort of logic is there in ensuring the security of that kind of investment, not to mention your precious backside, with a gun that was design fundamentally as a bargain basement cookie cutter rifle in the first place?

Is that the very best mechanical insurance policy that you can come up with, or has the illusion of false economy clouded all other logic?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Truly great rifles do more than shoot tight groups on a piece of paper off the bench, and there's more to sensible economics than the act of saving mere money.

05 April 2002, 10:31

sdgunslinger

I would think $900 would get you a Winchester , maybe quite a bit less if your dealer is kind to you . The CZ as mentioned is way under $900 . The new Mark X will likely be available shortly and it should be way , way under $900 . Then there are a number of used options such as Whiteworths , old Mark X s ,push feed Rugers or Winchesters , all of which are better buys than a $900 Savage .

The Savage is a good action designed to be reasonable to manufacture and it makes sense in a ulitarian rifle at around $350 to $450 . A $900 Savage is kind of like gold plating a corn cob ........

05 April 2002, 11:05

<trafgip>

quote:
Originally posted by trafgip:
[b][/b]

Thanks everyone for your help!

[This message has been edited by trafgip (edited 04-05-2002).]

05 April 2002, 18:53

Rusty Gunn

According to my Dealer catalog, the cost of a Savage Safari SE is a touch under $700, where as the 116 Weather Warriors go for around $400.
Perhaps The Old Hunter got a deal on his.
Or someone placed the price on the wrong box. Just guessing.
With this price, one gets a rifle with all the African rifle goodies (express sights, barrel band swivel, etc), but with an adjustable muzzle brake. I would think this may compensate for the higher price when compared to other rifles. ~~~Suluuq

[This message has been edited by Rusty Gunn (edited 04-05-2002).]

06 April 2002, 01:58

Die Ou Jagter

I was suprised myslf by the price. A friend who does alot of gun dealing touted me on to this place. I walked in and saw few guns. They had a few CZ and some other brands. I ask about the Savage and that is the price he quoted. The guy has little inventory and orders 90+% of guns he sells. We are in a depressed area. As to the reliability of Savage it sure dosen't give me any sleepless nights. As I posted before if looks count then I am Sh*t out of luck starting with my person. I am not the dashing young man with a pencil mustache an a sharp cut jaw, eh, so I guess my butt ugly guns do just fine. I know the old boat oar 338 does the killing just fine. Nuff said.

06 April 2002, 10:39

JudgeG

I just sold an unfired .458 Win Mag Savage through this forum's classifieds for $500 if I remember correctly. I think it was well worth the little money the buyer spent. I had never shot it, but I worked dozens of rounds of different bullet types through it, and it fed flawlessly. I do agree that due to the reputation of Savage for inexpensive (not cheap) rifles, that paying more that five to six hundred bucks for one is like buying a Ford with all the add-ons, boosting the price to what a BMW cost with the same features standard. It's a choice, but not one that I'd make, especially if I planned to sell the rifle some day.

[This message has been edited by judgeg (edited 04-06-2002).]

06 April 2002, 13:38

<trafgip>

quote:
Originally posted by judgeg:
I just sold an unfired .458 Win Mag Savage through this forum's classifieds for $500 if I remember correctly. I think it was well worth the little money the buyer spent. I had never shot it, but I worked dozens of rounds of different bullet types through it, and it fed flawlessly. I do agree that due to the reputation of Savage for inexpensive (not cheap) rifles, that paying more that five to six hundred bucks for one is like buying a Ford with all the add-ons, boosting the price to what a BMW cost with the same features standard. It's a choice, but not one that I'd make, especially if I planned to sell the rifle some day.
[This message has been edited by judgeg (edited 04-06-2002).]

Thanks, Judgeg. Maybe It's best that I go a different route with this purchase.
I have some homework to do before I decide.

06 April 2002, 15:25

<700Nitro>

i have a savage before and it was one of the best guns i have ever shot, but it was in 243 ( savage 1-10) but if you were to purchase a savage your going to make a great purchase.

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Hunt Smart, Hunt Safe

06 April 2002, 18:27

<Dan in Wa>

A good freind bought a M70 Classic as new in .458 in this one horse town for $780 last year. It was supposedly used but looked new in the box to me. I doubt the bolt was cycled 10 times. Think this was a better buy than a $1000 Savage.
I don't have anything against Savage rifles kinda looking for one in .22/250.

06 April 2002, 23:29

Rusty Gunn

Wow. Its a $1000 Savage now! Up from $900. With this price hike, I'd buy a few for $700 and make a bundle. Who'll declare it $1100

~~~Suluuq

07 April 2002, 05:30

Die Ou Jagter

Guys sometimes you just have to step up to the plate and fess up when you make a mistake or misstatement. Following this thread I called the dealer and ask if we were on the same page re the Savage 116. I told him what he quoted and I wanted the 116 SE. He said he had quoted the 116 WW. I was worng on the quote, he gave me a new price of $740. I think I will still take the SE. The big difference between the two is first and foremost the SE has CRF and the WW dosen't also the SE has the express sights, stainless cross bolts and the barrel swivels. I guess the wood is nicer than the fiberglass stock but this dosen't bother me because I think I will have it restocked with a thumb hole stock. Sorry for the confussion.