PH Shot and Killed by Careless Client

21 January 2010, 00:54

Dark Continent

In "Any Shot You Want" Art Alphin relates the story of Keith Poppleton, a PH in Botswana, who was shot and killed by a careless client. I have searched for information on this incident and have come up empty-handed. Does anyone know anything about the incident?

I have always thought that if I were a guide here in the North America or a PH in Africa that getting shot by a client would be one of my greatest fears. Having someone that you may have just met and barely know following behind you with a loaded rifle has to be a bit unnerving.

21 January 2010, 02:19

Shack

I don't know if this is it or not, but it was related to me by a hunter friend in the states who has been in Africa and knows people who've hunted there. I trust the source, but it's about third hand or so, anyway -

The story is, there was a client, a PH and a charging cape buff. The client totally lost his head and missed the buff and hit and killed the PH, then the buff killed the client.

It's been 2 or 3 years since I heard this, but I got the impression it happened not long before. He named the country. It was not SA.

21 January 2010, 22:12

gwindrider1

Dangerous profession! I don't believe I could be a guide/PH. I'm far too picky about who I'm around that is handling a firearm. We've all seen too many idiots over the years! Just hang out at your local range for a day! Whew! What a show!

21 January 2010, 22:23

Acer

Can't answer your question, but can provide confirmation on hazards of clients with guns.

I worked at a hunting club for 4 years - guiding clients on quail and pheasant and dove hunts. During that time I was almost shot 9 times (none of them by a former Vice President

.

Definition of "almost shot" - shot charge passed me by less than a foot at lethal ranges...

Yes, I wore blaze orange. And my Ranger patrol cover.

Lots of Corporate clients who weren't regular hunters and had no clue. When dogs went on point, I got right in behind the biggest hunter in hopes that he would screen me - and if I couldn't, I regularly hit the dirt when shots were fired.

One would hope that someone investing the time and money to hunt big game would at least be familiar with guns - but maybe not. BTW, at close range, getting shot by a 12 gauge is no better than a .458..

21 January 2010, 22:39

Charles_Helm

I know of one whitetail guide accidentally shot by a client. He did not make it.

I had been on the ranch not too many days before. Very sad deal.

Keep reinforcing those firearms safety rules.

21 January 2010, 23:10

Chisana

A few years back an assistant guide in Alaska killed a brown bear hunter in a rule 2 and rule 4 violation. It's not always the guide being shot by the client.

22 January 2010, 00:17

Saeed

He is mentioned in this book

22 January 2010, 00:51

RREESE

quote:
I worked at a hunting club for 4 years - guiding clients on quail and pheasant and dove hunts. During that time I was almost shot 9 times (none of them by a former Vice President .

Yes, and I almost slept with Scarlett Johansson.

22 January 2010, 01:34

Duckear

I guided duck hunters for two years.

Scary.

I 'offended' more than one guest than never learned firearm safety.

22 January 2010, 01:43

CaneCorso

Yes, indeed sad.

Better to go that way than stroke out or heart attack behind the desk at the office, though.

22 January 2010, 01:44

shakari

quote:
Originally posted by Duckear:
I guided duck hunters for two years.

Scary.

I 'offended' more than one guest than never learned firearm safety.

I guess it's enough to drive you 'quackers'..... in fact, almost enough to make you want to give them an additional 'bill'.

More seriously, it can be a problem, esp if the client is taking Larium, which seems to sometimes cloud the mind.

22 January 2010, 02:34

Dark Continent

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
He is mentioned in this book

That account is markedly different than what was reported by Art Alphin in his book.

"No one will ever really know why events unfolded as they did. What is known is that the bullet exited the muzzle of the client's rifle and entered Keith Poppleton's body in the back at the left shoulder/arm junction. The bullet traveled through Keith's body virtually severing his left arm from his body save for a small flap of skin. The bullet exited the front of Keith's body and entered the tracker's body in the back killing him instantly. Keith fell to the ground bleeding to death from a wound that might not have been mortal had it occurred on the front steps of Johns Hopkins but which, in that part of the world, would unquestionably prove fatal. The lion slowed his charge, came close to the bodies and, apparently satisfied with the outcome, turned and loped away.

That afternoon the client was put on an airplane leaving Botswana, one step ahead of the police who, understandably, wanted to question him about the incident. The fellow shall remain nameless, but I can tell you that the swine asked for a refund as he was being put on the plane and to this day he has yet to apologize for his actions or to say the first word to Keith Poppleton's widow . Keith's widow soldiered on and she now runs the game viewing and rest camp operation that the two of them had run in the off hunting season."

- "Any Shot You Want" page 31

22 January 2010, 05:30

Rick R

FWIW, Hearne's book on White Hunters lists almost as many PHs hospitalized by friendly fire as by angry animals and some by a combination of both.

PH-ing is apparently not a job with a great retirement plan.

22 January 2010, 08:02

Saeed

quote:
That account is markedly different than what was reported by Art Alphin in his book.

Not surprising at all.

Lots of what Art Alpin wrote has to be taken with a very largte doze of salt.

22 January 2010, 12:06

Settlers Safaris

Had a hunter from Czech Rep. put a shot through my toyota's roof last season, almost hitting my trackers on the back of the pick-up. Got no apology from the hunter and he did'nt want to re-imburse for the damages. It was'nt unlucky that this incident happend, This particular client just did'nt have any regard for safety or my authority to ensure saftey so I made sure he got an early flight home! This was my first close call in 9 years of guiding, but unfortunately i'm pretty sure not my last! "Complaicincy killed the cat" as they say!

22 January 2010, 12:56

Code4

Unfortunately in some class conscious cultures the PH is considered as little more than 'hired help'.

22 January 2010, 16:26

juanpozzi

We have had several incidents of this type here in Argentina ,i know 2cases, where the clients fall in the mud hunting ducks and shot the guide,one of the guides lost his arm.
I was nearly shot in the head by a client while i was searching an injured puma with my remington 870,he saw the pumas eyes and put a shot between them but almost hit me too.....

22 January 2010, 16:50

David Hulme

I know of a case where the PH was shot in the head! Whilst the client was retrieving his rifle from the rifle rack. Fortunately the PH concerned is a short guy and was wearing sandals not boots - the bullet creased his skull. Even a centimeter lower would have been a terrible tragedy.
Another PH friend of mine had his hat blown off by the muzzle blast. That was the third AD on that hunt and the hunter was subsequently disarmed. My brother also nearly received one in the back once....

Having said all this about others, about twenty years ago I had an AD with a .22 hornet and very nearly shot a guy...I have been super cautious ever since.

Cheers, David

22 January 2010, 17:09

Manyathelo

Unfortunately it happens all too often, in the last 5 years Darren Baker from CVS was shot in the shoulder with a 300 weatherby after a succesful leopard hunt and Howard Hunter from HHK was shot in the arm whilst caught under a buffalo that was goring him, many years ago Dave Aardnesgard was shot in the back of the head and it is a miracle that he is still alive and guiding clients albeit with pieces of the bullet still in his brain

22 January 2010, 17:15

Bwana Bunduki

Hunting the Luangwa Valley in 2000; I learned of a tragic incident that occurred before I arrived. I will leave PH and Company names out. The scenario scemes that the bakkie came around the corner close to some nice buff. The Ph bailed off the truck as well as trackers. The client was a female from France.

She clambered off the Land Cruiser and sllipped up to the PH and trackers who were busy glassing the buff looking for a good bull. As she crouched down behind the tracker, her gun went off and apparently blew the trackers head off. She was spirited out of the country on a private flight by my understanding. Possibly to avoid prosecution.

The second day I was there, the trackers brothere came to the camp seeking restitution for his late brother. Pretty surreal situation

I never heard another thing about it.

Jeff

22 January 2010, 17:31

retreever

This is right out of our AR site. Read this.

http://www.accuratereloading.com/henryp.html

Mike

22 January 2010, 17:56

David Hulme

That is a really bleak tale Mike, but illustrates well what can happen in a tight situation. What a brave man.

Dave

22 January 2010, 20:33

Duckear

quote:
Originally posted by shakari:
quote:
Originally posted by Duckear:
I guided duck hunters for two years.

Scary.

I 'offended' more than one guest than never learned firearm safety.

I guess it's enough to drive you 'quackers'..... in fact, almost enough to make you want to give them an additional 'bill'.

More seriously, it can be a problem, esp if the client is taking Larium, which seems to sometimes cloud the mind.

After two years, I had my 'limit' of them.

22 January 2010, 22:12

butchloc

while not accidental i would imagine that steve has been threatened many times for poor humor

22 January 2010, 23:15

shakari

quote:
Originally posted by butchloc:
while not accidental i would imagine that steve has been threatened many times for poor humor

Many times my friend...... I'm also a great practical joker with things like rubber snakes etc.... which is often good for a laugh.

One of my regular clients/hunting buddies is the same and our hunts are the funniest thing you'll ever see.

One regular trick we do to each other or anyone else who's around, is to catch a tsetse fly, pull a wing off and drop it down someone's neck, arse crack or into a pocket.

23 January 2010, 00:14

PhilR

I have noticed that on most of the African hunting shows on TV, sometimes the PHs, and more often the clients, are not very attentive to the rules of safe gun handling. Rifles carried on the shoulder seem to be pointing at someone much of the time, and the clients, when walking, crawling, etc. behind the PHs often carry their rifles pointing forward....at the PH. I noticed on a PH web page, John Sharp I think, hunters were told to bring a sling for the protection of the PH. That makes lots of sense to me.

23 January 2010, 00:17

butchloc

humor makes the hunting go around. feel sorry for those that have to take everything seriously. they've probably never even brought squirt guns or water baloons on a hunt before

23 January 2010, 00:55

Gerrypeters375

I have read this thread -and was appalled. I was only in Africa once - but it was for buff -successfully -and he landed in the SCI Record book also. I am struggling to understand how anybody who could call himself a "hunter" could end up shooting his own PH in a buff situation. ( And I shot my buff at less than 35 yards as he turned to face me - and never knew my PH was there in that moment )

23 January 2010, 01:34

Bwana Bunduki

quote:
Originally posted by Gerrypeters375:
I have read this thread -and was appalled. I was only in Africa once - but it was for buff -successfully -and he landed in the SCI Record book also. I am struggling to understand how anybody who could call himself a "hunter" could end up shooting his own PH in a buff situation. ( And I shot my buff at less than 35 yards as he turned to face me - and never knew my PH was there in that moment )

Enough time on the ground and anything can happen my friend. You might want to remember that.

Jeff

23 January 2010, 01:40

shakari

quote:
Originally posted by butchloc:
humor makes the hunting go around. feel sorry for those that have to take everything seriously. they've probably never even brought squirt guns or water baloons on a hunt before

Here's a couple of good ones for you if you have monkeys in camp.

1) Take a doughnut or similar, pinch a small hole in it and trickle some liquor into it until it's almost soggy. Put it on a plate and walk outside with it. Then sit for a minute or two with it beside you and then walk away from it and watch what happens. A drunken monkey is one of the funniest things you'll ever see!

2) take a rubber snake and tie a 1-2 metre piece of fishing line to it and put the rubber snake in a plastic bag. Tie a doughnut or similar to the other end of the fishing line. Take it outside, weigh the corner of the bag down with a rock and leave the doughnut in view..... Then walk away and watch what happens.

The only thing funnier than a drunken monkey is one that thinks he's being chased by a snake!

23 January 2010, 01:47

dinsdale

quote:
Originally posted by Chisana:
A few years back an assistant guide in Alaska killed a brown bear hunter in a rule 2 and rule 4 violation. It's not always the guide being shot by the client.

I shared a table at lunch with the hunter that was killed in Harrisburg at the outdoor show there.I had also talked with the same outfitter,we excharged phone numbers and when he got back he was going to call me.

About 4 months after the hunt read about him in a magazine and his tragic death.

23 January 2010, 01:48

Equinsu Ocha

Steve,
I like those!! What could be funnier than a drunk monkey to amuse me?!! I'm going to have to try that this season for sure.

23 January 2010, 02:05

shakari

quote:
Originally posted by Scottyboy:
Steve,
I like those!! What could be funnier than a drunk monkey to amuse me?!! I'm going to have to try that this season for sure.

Mate, the only thing funnier is when they turn the tables on you.

Many years ago, I was hunting with a very proper (divorced) English lady client at a time the monkeys were in breeding trim. They were right at the peak of their season and the males were all walking around with bright blue bollocks that were damn nearly the size of rugby balls and dragging on the floor.

We went back to camp one day for lunch and I had the staff set the table outside because it was such a nice day. I sat opposite her and soon after, a big male monkey came and sat in the vee branches of the tree that was a few yards immediatly behind her...... and as soon as he made himself comfortable, he looked me bang in the eye, sat back and started jacking off!

I slowly started cracking up and the client kept saying, "what's up, what are you laughing at?" Of course, there was no way on God's earth I could tell her and in the end, I literally slid under the table howling with laughter!

That was many years and many hunts ago and believe it or not, she's now Mrs Shakari but I still cry with laughter whenever I think of it!

23 January 2010, 02:56

ddrhook

your a sick sick man. I Like that in people

23 January 2010, 03:22

Dark Continent

quote:
Originally posted by dinsdale:
quote:
Originally posted by Chisana:
A few years back an assistant guide in Alaska killed a brown bear hunter in a rule 2 and rule 4 violation. It's not always the guide being shot by the client.

I shared a table at lunch with the hunter that was killed in Harrisburg at the outdoor show there.I had also talked with the same outfitter,we excharged phone numbers and when he got back he was going to call me.

About 4 months after the hunt read about him in a magazine and his tragic death.

Was that this incident?

I remember reading about it when it happened. What a tragedy.

http://www.wolfsongnews.org/ne...rent_events_1367.htm

23 January 2010, 04:18

Bwana Bunduki

quote:
Originally posted by shakari:
quote:
Originally posted by Scottyboy:
Steve,
I like those!! What could be funnier than a drunk monkey to amuse me?!! I'm going to have to try that this season for sure.

Mate, the only thing funnier is when they turn the tables on you.

Many years ago, I was hunting with a very proper (divorced) English lady client at a time the monkeys were in breeding trim. They were right at the peak of their season and the males were all walking around with bright blue bollocks that were damn nearly the size of rugby balls and dragging on the floor.

We went back to camp one day for lunch and I had the staff set the table outside because it was such a nice day. I sat opposite her and soon after, a big male monkey came and sat in the vee branches of the tree that was a few yards immediatly behind her...... and as soon as he made himself comfortable, he looked me bang in the eye, sat back and started jacking off!

I slowly started cracking up and the client kept saying, "what's up, what are you laughing at?" Of course, there was no way on God's earth I could tell her and in the end, I literally slid under the table howling with laughter!

That was many years and many hunts ago and believe it or not, she's now Mrs Shakari but I still cry with laughter whenever I think of it!

Do you think if you spoke up she still would have married you???

Her name wasn't SHIRLEY by chance?

Sorry again...

Jeff

23 January 2010, 04:41

dinsdale

quote:
Originally posted by Dark Continent:
I shared a table at lunch with the hunter that was killed in Harrisburg at the outdoor show there.I had also talked with the same outfitter,we excharged phone numbers and when he got back he was going to call me.

About 4 months after the hunt read about him in a magazine and his tragic death.

Was that this incident?

I remember reading about it when it happened. What a tragedy.

http://www.wolfsongnews.org/ne...rent_events_1367.htm[/QUOTE]

Yes,same one.He booked at the show when I met him...

23 January 2010, 05:08

surestrike

I know a very prominent PH from Zimbabwe who now works in Tanzania who shot one of his staff through the leg with a .416 Rigby.

The staff member was OK as the bullet simply passed through the fleshy under part was a solid and did very little damage. I don't care who you are or how conscientious you are accident can happen to you.

I had a client blow a hole through the roof of my truck about ten years ago. It was a Model 700 Remington that went off when she took the safety from safe to fire. I'd asked her to please make sure that her rifle was unloaded and she was in process of showing me that it was. WHOOPS! And people wonder why I won't have anything to do with M-700's!

I just about blew my own head off years ago with a Ruger Single action .357 that fell out of a holster hit the ground and went off. I don't know how it didn't get me I remember watching the thing fall and was looking right down the muzzle when it went off. I was riding a horse lion hunting at the time and the pistol got snagged in some brush which tore it out of my holster.

As they say things happen.

23 January 2010, 07:26

404WJJeffery

It seems one occupational hazard for a PH is not really knowing who you are getting involved with when a client shows up.

One well known PH told me he had a hunt earlier in the season where the client had an "accidental discharge" that whizzed by the PH's head during a stalk.

After the client was dropped off in Windhoek for a few days rest before leaving, he apparently told anyone who would listen that the PH's wife was in love with him, that they were going to marry and he was going to run the hunting operation.....true story.....hence the quotes around "accidental discharge".