There has never been a better time to hunt Africa...

28 January 2011, 20:44

500nitro

Folks,

We have a new hunting area about 2.5 hours north of Johannesburg.

It is over 4000 ha of great bushveld, excellent accommodation, and more interesting, is home to some awesome trophy hunting. The photos tell the story.

This ranch has been 12 years in the developing, and we will be able to hunt it for the first time this season with a limited quota of animals.

There has never been a better time to hunt Africa.

Cheers -

28 January 2011, 21:26

Eland Slayer

WHOA!!! That Zebra is something else!!

28 January 2011, 21:32

Allout

Excellent opportunity.

Cheers,

Brian

28 January 2011, 21:41

Aspen Hill Adventures

I hope that melanistic zebra is a mare and she gets to produce some foals for a long time, very cool.

A lot of nice trophies, that wildebeest really has a great spread.

29 January 2011, 00:16

505 gibbs

allright, I'll get this started...high fence or low fence?

29 January 2011, 00:24

retreever

It is over 5 square miles. That is a lot of walking.

Mike

29 January 2011, 01:57

Jorge400

I hunted with John (500nitro) last September and he's a stand up guy who I would hunt with again in a heartbeat. If he says this is a good area, my bet is that it is jam up!

John, I haven't forgotten about you and will pass your email on.

George

29 January 2011, 02:54

Ej

Great pics ! Love that Zebra and the Gnu , that is a big one.

29 January 2011, 04:57

retreever

Good hunters you guys are... NOT. None of you noticed that the kudu bull is actively taking a dump. You were all looking at those big horns.

Mike

29 January 2011, 05:34

Vanderhoef

The sable ain't too shabby either!!

01 February 2011, 00:10

Allout

quote:
Originally posted by Vanderhoef:
The sable ain't too shabby either!!

There sure are worse things...

I can't believe someone hasn't jumped all over this asking for pricing and available dates...

Cheers,

Brian

01 February 2011, 01:04

drwes

You got me Retreever,, you are correct and I missed it [ Kudu pooping] the first time, sort of like my wife asking me if I saw the shoes that "woman" was wearing,,,,worth a second look, wes

01 February 2011, 10:48

Andrew McLaren

Does anyone care to take a guess on the spread of the blue wildebesst horns? Fantastic I would say! But please post your guess in inches!

John, my best wishes for getting the hunts on this area filled with eventually very satisfied clients.

In good hunting.

Andrew McLaren

01 February 2011, 23:21

Max Trauma

nice photos

02 February 2011, 05:44

AfricanHunter

quote:
Originally posted by retreever:
Good hunters you guys are... NOT. None of you noticed that the kudu bull is actively taking a dump. You were all looking at those big horns.

Mike

Hey, Mike hold on there, I saw that right away

02 February 2011, 06:16

Use Enough Gun

You'd be taken' a dump too if you knew that someone was taking your picture to later have you assassinated!

02 February 2011, 08:31

fujotupu

quote:
Originally posted by retreever:
It is over 5 square miles. That is a lot of walking.

Mike

5 sq. miles?....sounds more like a pen than a concession

02 February 2011, 08:37

Eland Slayer

Actually.....4000 ha. is 15 sq. miles

02 February 2011, 09:18

fujotupu

quote:
Originally posted by Eland Slayer:
Actually.....4000 ha. is 15 sq. miles

or 2 miles x 2.5 miles - nice plot of land to plant wheat on.

Just tracking a buffalo can take you that distance but hell, man, if you think 4,000 HA is a lot of hunting land in Africa, good for you.

In Tanzania the SMALLEST concession is 800 sq,kms or approx. 300 sq miles - figure that one out.

02 February 2011, 09:48

fairgame

quote:
Originally posted by fujotupu:
quote:
Originally posted by Eland Slayer:
Actually.....4000 ha. is 15 sq. miles

or 2 miles x 2.5 miles - nice plot of land to plant wheat on.

Just tracking a buffalo can take you that distance but hell, man, if you think 4,000 HA is a lot of hunting land in Africa, good for you.

In Tanzania the SMALLEST concession is 800 sq,kms or approx. 300 sq miles - figure that one out.

That is a bit harsh. Looking at the species he is offering 10,000 acres is a sizable patch of bush. The game has been nurtured and intensively managed and therefor the trophy quality speaks for its self. More importantly it is private and there is pride in the ownership of the land and the game.

Game farms like these will offer old fashioned hospitality and some very fine hunting and are ideally suited for those who cannot endure the rigors of hunting the wild. Often they are a comfortable introduction to Africa and as we have seen on AR many will progress north to see the endless horizons you speak of.

02 February 2011, 10:37

fujotupu

quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
quote:
Originally posted by fujotupu:
quote:
Originally posted by Eland Slayer:
Actually.....4000 ha. is 15 sq. miles

or 2 miles x 2.5 miles - nice plot of land to plant wheat on.

Just tracking a buffalo can take you that distance but hell, man, if you think 4,000 HA is a lot of hunting land in Africa, good for you.

In Tanzania the SMALLEST concession is 800 sq,kms or approx. 300 sq miles - figure that one out.

That is a bit harsh. Looking at the species he is offering 10,000 acres is a sizable patch of bush. The game has been nurtured and intensively managed and therefor the trophy quality speaks for its self. More importantly it is private and there is pride in the ownership of the land and the game.

Game farms like these will offer old fashioned hospitality and some very fine hunting and are ideally suited for those who cannot endure the rigors of hunting the wild. Often they are a comfortable introduction to Africa and as we have seen on AR many will progress north to see the endless horizons you speak of.

Quite correctly said Fairgame.
Great bit of difference between ranched game which has been nurtured, groomed, managed, fed with boosters (maybe) to that which is naturally wild, game that doesn't stand in the middle of the road taking a crap on candid camera.
Unfortunately some (note some) of these "game farms" are more like private zoos or sanctuaries where the game is almost as tame as pets.

Concessions in managed areas like the Selous, Rungwa, etc, (Reserves and not reservations) can also be considered as private and managed by the outfitter or concession holder - some do so with pride, others don't.

And for sure farms such as these would be ideal for a family affair where one can take the wife and kids and enjoy the luxuries of home without being at home though it all defeats the ideals of hunting the "old fashioned way".

Different strokes for different folks.

02 February 2011, 11:54

fairgame

fujotupu,

I understand where you are coming from and I would class myself as traditional or old fashioned as you say. However there are many that cannot afford untamed Africa and are attracted by the comforts of this style of hunting.

Not sure it is our right to knock it though? You and I are vastly privileged to be able to hunt old Africa and all that goes with it.

02 February 2011, 12:19

fujotupu

quote:
Originally posted by fairgame:
fujotupu,

I understand where you are coming from and I would class myself as traditional or old fashioned as you say. However there are many that cannot afford untamed Africa and are attracted by the comforts of this style of hunting.

Not sure it is our right to knock it though? You and I are vastly privileged to be able to hunt old Africa and all that goes with it.

Fairgame:

Hardly 'knocking it' as you say - merely an observation on the original comment which came from someone who knows a bit more on walking and size of a hunting concession, claiming the 5 sq. miles as a 'lot of walking'.

I did also say "different strokes for different folks" - confirming that not all are as privileged as we and many others and solutions to cater for the under privileged can come in the form of "game ranches" where overall costs are greatly reduced thus making it more affordable and more 'comfortable'.

02 February 2011, 18:17

505 gibbs

quote:
Actually.....4000 ha. is 15 sq. miles

---Liberal (noun): A person so open-minded their brains have fallen out---

Maybe I'm fried, but I believe you need to check your math, 4000ha = 9,884 acres = 15.44375 sections (sq miles) = a perimeter of 3.93miles x 3.93 miles which means you could walk the entire width x length of this ranch quite easily in around 4 hours. A beautiful place I am sure, and by the looks of it some very healthy game, so healthy in fact that I would have to guess on a contained area this size they are fed in a supplemental fashion. Cool place to go see, probably, hunting Africa, not really.

03 February 2011, 01:29

Eland Slayer

quote:
Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
quote:
Actually.....4000 ha. is 15 sq. miles

---Liberal (noun): A person so open-minded their brains have fallen out---

Maybe I'm fried, but I believe you need to check your math, 4000ha = 9,884 acres = 15.44375 sections (sq miles) = a perimeter of 3.93miles x 3.93 miles which means you could walk the entire width x length of this ranch quite easily in around 4 hours. A beautiful place I am sure, and by the looks of it some very healthy game, so healthy in fact that I would have to guess on a contained area this size they are fed in a supplemental fashion. Cool place to go see, probably, hunting Africa, not really.

So.....what part of my math am I supposed to be checking? You did it yourself and came up with the same thing I did. 4,000 hectares is about the same as 15 square miles. There are 640 acres in each square mile. So, 15 square miles would add up to exactly 9,600 acres.....which is right about the same as 4,000 hectares. Is it not?

I was simply helping out retreever with his math....

An area this size is far from being a "pen". There are ranches much smaller than this in the states that offer quality, fair-chase hunts. If this property has lots of bushveld (which it apparently does).....then I believe it would offer great hunting opportunities for all the species pictured. It all depends on the species you are chasing. Obviously hunting an Elephant, Lion, or Buffalo would not be the same on an area of this size. But I see nothing wrong with hunting Sable, Blue Wildebeest, Zebra, Kudu, and Nyala on the property. Anyone who thinks a Kudu could not escape from you in 10,000 acres of thick bush must have their head in the clouds.

03 February 2011, 04:14

jeff h

Dang some of you guys need to get out of the house.

03 February 2011, 04:21

505 gibbs

quote:
So.....what part of my math am I supposed to be checking? You did it yourself and came up with the same thing I did. 4,000 hectares is about the same as 15 square miles. There are 640 acres in each square mile. So, 15 square miles would add up to exactly 9,600 acres.....which is right about the same as 4,000 hectares. Is it not?
It is, as I stated, I was fried & missed the "sq" part of your post, my apologies
I was simply helping out retreever with his math....

An area this size is far from being a "pen". to you maybe There are ranches much smaller than this in the states that offer quality, fair-chase hunts. if they are fenced, they are not "fair chase" no matter what the owner has told you.If this property has lots of bushveld (which it apparently does).....then I believe it would offer great hunting opportunities for all the species pictured. apparently, "hunting" is a very subjective term. It all depends on the species you are chasing. what does it matter what species you are hunting? shooting behind a fence is shooting behind a fence. Obviously hunting an Elephant, Lion, or Buffalo would not be the same on an area of this size. are you speaking from experience? But I see nothing wrong with hunting Sable, Blue Wildebeest, Zebra, Kudu, and Nyala on the property. it sounds like you are the client this guy is looking for. Anyone who thinks a Kudu could not escape from you in 10,000 acres of thick bush must have their head in the clouds. a kudu could escape from you in 100 acres of thick bush, that doesn't make it fair chase.

---Liberal (noun): A person so open-minded their brains have fallen out---

I still have not heard if this farm is fenced or not, so the above is speculation about this place.

03 February 2011, 04:27

Fallow Buck

That wildbeeste looks like someone has trimmed his ears a bit....

K

03 February 2011, 05:20

Eland Slayer

quote:
Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
quote:
So.....what part of my math am I supposed to be checking? You did it yourself and came up with the same thing I did. 4,000 hectares is about the same as 15 square miles. There are 640 acres in each square mile. So, 15 square miles would add up to exactly 9,600 acres.....which is right about the same as 4,000 hectares. Is it not?
It is, as I stated, I was fried & missed the "sq" part of your post, my apologies
I was simply helping out retreever with his math....

An area this size is far from being a "pen". to you maybe There are ranches much smaller than this in the states that offer quality, fair-chase hunts. if they are fenced, they are not "fair chase" no matter what the owner has told you.If this property has lots of bushveld (which it apparently does).....then I believe it would offer great hunting opportunities for all the species pictured. apparently, "hunting" is a very subjective term. It all depends on the species you are chasing. what does it matter what species you are hunting? shooting behind a fence is shooting behind a fence. Obviously hunting an Elephant, Lion, or Buffalo would not be the same on an area of this size. are you speaking from experience? But I see nothing wrong with hunting Sable, Blue Wildebeest, Zebra, Kudu, and Nyala on the property. it sounds like you are the client this guy is looking for. Anyone who thinks a Kudu could not escape from you in 10,000 acres of thick bush must have their head in the clouds. a kudu could escape from you in 100 acres of thick bush, that doesn't make it fair chase.

---Liberal (noun): A person so open-minded their brains have fallen out---

I still have not heard if this farm is fenced or not, so the above is speculation about this place.

Well, considering the vast majority of RSA is fenced, then I think this property probably is.

03 February 2011, 07:00

Cross L

lets define "fenced"

Does it mean just high game fence or anything down to electric wire or 4 strands of twisted smooth?

SSR

03 February 2011, 07:32

505 gibbs

my question referred to game fenced, or as some refer to it, high fenced.

03 February 2011, 07:38

<generalwar>

If it is fenced, no thanks.

03 February 2011, 17:45

JCHB

500 Nitro, great pics and sounds like a fine concession. It's a moot point if some of the general peanut gallery here could actually drag themselves around 4000ha of bushveid on foot after a kudu or sable without needing new pacemaker batteries.
Fujotupu, so your definition of wild game is that which doesn't hang around to be photographed???? What??? That sure excludes a lot of beasts in Kruger/Serengeti/masai mara,etc doesn't it? Or maybe those arn't wild either??
4000ha on foot stalking game can be more difficult that cruising your 800 sq kms in your truck, only hopping off for a short walk to put up the sticks and "collect" your trophy...
Just saying....
JCHB

03 February 2011, 18:49

fujotupu

quote:
Fujotupu, so your definition of wild game is that which doesn't hang around to be photographed???? What??? That sure excludes a lot of beasts in Kruger/Serengeti/masai mara,etc doesn't it? Or maybe those arn't wild either??

Wild because they are free but also protected and constantly in touch with humans, therefore quite content in posing for the camera - reason being why you hardly ever find a photographic safari in an open area (unless someone conned them).
Your comment confirms that this 4000ha parcel of land is similar to those national parks and could therefore qualify as a canned hunt.

Am reconfirming: different strokes for different folks - I sure don't have a problem with that.

03 February 2011, 22:45

Allout

Guys, I am not trying to offend anyone or in any way piss in any one’s Post –toasties…but…
I use to be one of the “It’s not really hunting if there is a fence” crowd. Then I spent over two months in very open country (no fence) in Zimbabwe and a comparable amount of time in South Africa’s Natal Province going from Game Ranch to Game Ranch (all high fence). I learned a lot about game management, conservation and overall “ethics” where hunting is concerned. And both experiences, really opened my eyes to Africa.
My time in Zimbabwe was spent in a communal area (part of the CAMPFIRE program) where the majority of available game is either elephant or buffalo. The “plainsgame” was minimal at best. But the important part is there were no fences, at least none you could see. Though I could find game (at least what meager game was living in the area) any time I wanted, because of the lack of available water and food sources. I don’t think it would be a big leap to say 90% of the game all lived in select little patches of the huge area (I was told it was just under a million acres) and they don’t move off because there is nothing available to them outside these patchy little areas. Basically, Mother Nature had them inside an invisible fence.
I believe the smallest ranch I was on in Natal was 2,000 hectares and it was of course, high fence. 2,000 hectares…not a large place by any stretch, especially when you consider the vast expanse that is Africa, but I promise you, I could take you there and on foot we could spend 5 days hunting (on foot) and you would never see a fence. We could drive the whole thing in a cruiser and over the course of a couple of weeks; you wouldn’t even see half of the game living on the ranch (even if you did see the fence every couple of days).
At one point in particular while I was in South Africa, I spent three weeks (walking) around a game ranch in Natal. I worked my ass into the ground trying to cover every inch of the place. I didn’t make it. I saw maybe 75% of the place. I saw a ton of game, more than I would have though possible, but I didn’t see all of it. Some of the time I had a tracker with me. He and I spent two whole days trying to track a kudu (rumor was he only had one horn). I saw him a total of about ten seconds in that 48 hour period (to be fair we will say actual time spent looking for the kudu was a little over 20 hours). It wasn’t even enough time to get a photo (but he did only have one horn). But sure, to make any armchair bwanas out there happy we will say that it wouldn’t have been “fair” of me to be hunting him or that he was “trapped” because of the fence he couldn’t go over or under. I mean geez we only covered two mountains (really damn big hills) and walked a total of about 20 miles (crisscrossing, switch-backing and generally pounding our feet off trying to glimpse this one-horned ghost. (by the by…I wasn’t hunting him as in wanting to shoot him, I just wanted to see if he had broken the horn off or if it just hadn’t grown – it was broken off of course…).
So hunting fenced areas isn’t really hunting eh? Like I stated earlier, I use to believe that way, but after spending more than a few days on the ground not being cared for by a PH and full compliment of staff, not anymore. Any size fenced game ranch might not be your cup of tea. That is ok. But don’t tell me it isn’t hunting. Not unless you are willing to pay for my plane ride across the pond so you and I can go to one of these “posh lodges” and we can try to prove each other wrong.
Are you going to get the same experience in RSA that you are in the Selous? No. If you can take a trip to Zambia with Fairgame are you going to be in a new environment, playing by a different set of rules, than if you were in say the Limpopo? Yes, you are. Should any of that that lessen the experience? If it does, it is your own fault. It is all Africa. It is all different than anything most of us grew up around or have ever had the chance to fully participate in.
***Side note – Mr. Baldry, I have kicked myself in the arse a thousands times for not taking you up on your offer to come to Zambia and spend some time helping get things set up in the areas you hold. If I had it to do over again…I would have gotten on the plane in Durban headed your direction. Thank you for all the emails back then and the opportunity you offered me. Ignorance on my part was the only thing holding me back. Maybe one day in the very near future I will be in position to take you up on it, if the offer still stands that is. ***
It is important also to note that in the wild area were I was in Zimbabwe; there was talk of buying a Sable for a client who was coming in later in the year. They were buying one because they had the quota number, just no actual sable in the place. Now how do you suppose they were going to keep that sable around without a fence? And if they did manage to buy one, is that something you would consider wrong? Is the hunter who was coming in less of a hunter because of the circumstances, even if he didn’t know the sable he was hunting had been bought and transferred into the area only a few weeks before his arrival? Just a few things for you all to think about…
Back on track…Where in the above post did anyone (with authority) offer to sell a hunt for any of the actual animals pictured? Never happened. We were shown photos of a few of the animals seen on the place. Given to us as a “hey look at the quality of animals on the place” not as a “You can shoot this exact Nyala or Kudu or…” It is just a fair representation of what a coming hunter can expect to see.
Good grief guys. I mean really. I am not trying to make it sound like I am an expert, trust me I KNOW beyond a shadow of a doubt, I am far from it…But because you don’t want to hunt an area you can’t cover on foot in a week of hunting, just because it has a fence around the perimeter (I don’t know if this place where the animals are shown is fenced or not), don’t trash it for everyone. And don’t call it “not true hunting” until you have put feet on the ground and seen it with your own eyes…
There is way more than my two cents on the matter.
Cheers,
Brian

03 February 2011, 23:50

Allout

Also...here with some photos of the lodge I dug up. Really who would want to fly halfway around the world and then have to stay in a dump like this while they chased trophies of a lifetime...

Horrid...Just horrid...

Cheers,
Brian

04 February 2011, 00:57

465H&H

Now that is what I call roughing it. I didn't see any 56" flat screen TVs. How can one cope with such squaler?

465H&H

04 February 2011, 01:04

Allout

04 February 2011, 01:17

rcamuglia

quote:
Originally posted by 505 gibbs:
quote:
So.....what part of my math am I supposed to be checking? You did it yourself and came up with the same thing I did. 4,000 hectares is about the same as 15 square miles. There are 640 acres in each square mile. So, 15 square miles would add up to exactly 9,600 acres.....which is right about the same as 4,000 hectares. Is it not?
It is, as I stated, I was fried & missed the "sq" part of your post, my apologies
I was simply helping out retreever with his math....

An area this size is far from being a "pen". to you maybe There are ranches much smaller than this in the states that offer quality, fair-chase hunts. if they are fenced, they are not "fair chase" no matter what the owner has told you.If this property has lots of bushveld (which it apparently does).....then I believe it would offer great hunting opportunities for all the species pictured. apparently, "hunting" is a very subjective term. It all depends on the species you are chasing. what does it matter what species you are hunting? shooting behind a fence is shooting behind a fence. Obviously hunting an Elephant, Lion, or Buffalo would not be the same on an area of this size. are you speaking from experience? But I see nothing wrong with hunting Sable, Blue Wildebeest, Zebra, Kudu, and Nyala on the property. it sounds like you are the client this guy is looking for. Anyone who thinks a Kudu could not escape from you in 10,000 acres of thick bush must have their head in the clouds. a kudu could escape from you in 100 acres of thick bush, that doesn't make it fair chase.

--

I still have not heard if this farm is fenced or not, so the above is speculation about this place.

Good Post 505

04 February 2011, 09:55

Russ Gould

Nothing posted by anyone here has much bearing on the statement: "There has never been a better time to hunt Africa". I expected some discussion of affordability, or discounts due to the recession, or some change in the law, or some new country opening up. Instead, a pissing match over fenced vs. unfenced and an "Infomercial", as in "there has never been a better time to hunt my new concession".

Is this really the heyday of hunting in Africa? Maybe yes, for the easy transatlantic travel, easy access to hunting, affordable plains game hunting, multitude of species available etc. Maybe no, for it's all gotten a little "Disneyesque"; the "put and take" practices that are now accepted; and the big bucks one has to pay for DG hunts.

How about some discussion of the original topic?