quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

Another interesting read in my opinion and it is just my opinion, is that people who expect near perfection in the age determination of wild lions for hunting expect people to assume massive randomness is near everything else in life. If life in itself can be so random and best insurance is often self-insurance why can't hunting lions or more correctly any other scared objective be subject to policy that assumes non-randomness.

Mike

Wow Mike!!!

Dam...that is so simple. One is an accident which is a random act and the other (pulling the trigger on a lion) is a conscious decision in which objective data can be processed prior! IE: A totally NON-random event!

Lane:

My point is there is always randomness. Maybe I have worked in very random field for too damn long - financial markets.

Unless one is shooting home grown pen raised correctly aged lions - like I assume maybe 70%-80% of current lions at US taxidermist are. There is always randomness in hunting anything wild. Its only degrees (subjective) of randomness or unknown elements around which we can determine rules.

The arguments I have read on this board focus at its core about adopting wild lions hunting rules either acknowledge this randomness element (fairgame) or don't and have a very strict liability structure.

We can always have the same strict liability structure for accidental shooting. If you shoot someone you are liable and everything else is irrelevant.

I don't think we should have strict blackline rules for either gun accidents or wild lion hunting or some other events that occurs occasionally.

Side note we are discussing about doing legal and policy issues in Africa were very little government policy is based on rational policy making. Just ask anyone with hunting concessions in the save Conservancy.

Mike

Mike,
To me...the correlation of the 2 events makes little sense...but that is just me.

As afar as lion goes...the science shows we need some selectivity. You can either choose to embrace or ignore your choice...but it is still there.

Anyone who cares to spend the time learning the phenotypic criteria to make sure one shoots a 6 or greater lion can learn...but it takes the want to.

The companies like Tanzania Game Tracker Safaris and Wengert Winrose Safaris have proven long ago that it can be accomplished and it does increase lion populations in wild.

Sorry...I see nothing random about making a conscious decision on pulling the trigger on a lion while watching it through a scope from a blind.

quote:

Side note we are discussing about doing legal and policy issues in Africa were very little government policy is based on rational policy making. Just ask anyone with hunting concessions in the save Conservancy.

Precisely sir and exactly why the average hunter should educate his or herslf...so they can be part of the solution sir...NOT part of the problem.

Lane:

There is no correlation on the 2 events. The point is on the choice of liability rules for random events.

I am going to be hunting wild lion on foot in Burkina Faso in 2014. So there will be no luxury of bait (legally not allowed) or blinds.

I will fully follow the legal rules of Burkina Faso and leave aging to the PH as I know little about aging lions.

Mike

quote:

The point is on the choice of liability rules for random events.

When you pull the trigger on your lion sir...it is not a random event...unless you wear a blindfold.

quote:

There is no correlation on the 2 events.

And...if there is NO correlation...why clutter the other thread with the jab???

quote:

I will fully follow the legal rules of Burkina Faso and leave aging to the PH as I know little about aging lions.

Your choice sir...hope you have a good hunt!

Lane:

You are confusing - choice of a wild lion on which the trigger is pulled - an event subject to a larger degree of randomness to pulling of the trigger.

The proposed lion hunting rules are focused on choice of lion by PH by criteria - age, pride, sex ect . Unless I have missed something.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
Lane:

You are confusing - choice of a wild lion on which the trigger is pulled - an event subject to a larger degree of randomness to pulling of the trigger.

The proposed lion hunting rules are focused on choice of lion by PH by criteria - age, pride, sex ect . Unless I have missed something.

Mike

Is the PH going to be holding a .45 in your left ear while telling you to shoot? If so...it adds credence to your theory of randomness. Otherwise...nothing random about making the conscious decision to pull the trigger on something you are aiming at.

And sincerely Sir...I hope you have a great hunt.

Thanks Lane

We may disagree on some policy aspects of lion hunting.

But i think without hunting (trophy/economic )large lions populations in Africa will never exist. American hunters and their ability to hunt lion is and will be critical.

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:
Thanks Lane

We may disagree on some policy aspects of lion hunting.

But i think without hunting (trophy/economic )large lions populations in Africa will never exist. American hunters and their ability to hunt lion is and will be critical.

Yessir...you are 100% correct. The precise reason Aaron and I have tried so hard to ensure its (American's ability to hunt wild lion) continued existence.