Double rifles 450/400s plus

21 April 2002, 19:37

I was woondering what people think of these rifles and what the prices are like?

a. 450/400 - DBBL Rifle Hammerness ejector - 3" case. By - A. Hollis having
24" barells. Box Lock. in MINT Condition USD 6500.00

b. 450/400 - DBBL Rifle - hammerless ejector - 3" case By Westley Richards 24"
barrels Box Lock. Mint Condition USD 7500.00

c. 470 DBBL I Hollis Box Lock, hammerless, Excellent condition, barrel 24"
USD 13,000.00

d. 405 DBBL Hammerless, non ejector box lock, belgium make. in average
condition USD 1000.00

e. 577 A. Hartman box lock, non ejector, low pressure cordite, 3" case, in
all original condition USD5500.00
[Is this the normal .577 NE 3" ie the low pressure cordite tag?]

Thanks

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John
alias Nitro

NitroExpress.com
communities.msn.com/NitroExpressCom

21 April 2002, 19:43

500grains

450/400's always seem to be a bargin, but catching one in nice shape for under $7K is unusual.

Is the 405 a 405 Win? If so, I would stay away from it unless you just want a gun for wild hogs.

My bet is that the 577 is a 577 BPE (black powder express) which shoots a 650 grain bullet at 1850 fps rather than a 750 grain at 2050 fps (which would be 577 NE). Penetration is questionable on a 577 BPE, but it is still a fine cartridge. The price is very attractive.

22 April 2002, 02:27

<500 AHR>

Who has these rifles for sale?

22 April 2002, 03:09

<Rusty>

I can only speak for the A. Hollis 450/400 3 inch. I have one. My friend Mark Cash has one. We are most satisfied with our rifles! Ray Atkinson's "Sweet Thang" is a Jeffery 450/400 3 inch. Mac also own a 450/400 3 inch. I can't remember names, but I think at least 4 other members of this board and HA own 450/400s.

I n my opine. . .
The 450/400 3 inch is THE ALL AROUND DOUBLE RIFLE CHAMBERING! The barreled action was made by Leonard. He made action for several trade houses including, Jeffery and others. So you are buying a very good action just like a Jeffery and not paying the Jeffery price.

You get a .408, 400 grain bullet, usually a 55 cord rifle. There are some .411 450/400 out there. The bullet is long and penetrates well! You need to make sure which one you are getting. Slug the bore. Brass (Mast Technology's-B.E.L.L.the best, Bertram, HDS) and bullets (Woodleighs the best, Hawk & I think GS?) are readily available. Woodleighs shoot great in my rifle! RL-15 with a poly filler should be your powder of choice.

At my age 55, recoil is becoming a factor in my shooting and the 450/400 won't beat you up!

The 450/400 is not a biggest badest stopper round, but you can stand your ground with it!
I like the round because you carry the rifle nicely usually 10 lb.. You can hunt plains game with it and still be well armed for a big buff if one should turn up.

I don't advocate that you shoot everything with a 450/400 3 inch, I just like to shoot mine every chance I can.

If I could find a double rifle maker today who would make me a rifle chambered in 450/400 3 inch with 26" barrels, that would be my next double rifle!

Most important thing in buying a used double is the condition of the bores and how tight the action is. If you can't tell then someone like JJ Parodeau at Champlin's needs to look it over. In fact every double any one buys ought to be bought with the caveat that the rifle pass inspection by a gunsmith who knows what he is doing, before you buy it!

The double rifle trial is pockmarked with snares and traps. It is best to have someone who knows where to step guide you!

Rusty
We band of brothers!

22 April 2002, 03:43

Atkinson

Your best "deals" there are the Westley Richards then the Hollis as I see it..

The Hollis is just as good a gun, but the WR will sell for more down the road..However, I'd pick the one that shot the best groups at 50 yards.

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

22 April 2002, 03:46

Atkinson

I'd add to the above, Listen to Rusty thats sound advise for sure.

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

22 April 2002, 20:02

Saad

Is I. Hollis different from A. Hollis?

I have seen a few shotguns by I.Hollis. Read soemwhere that he was a retailer not a maker.

Heard of A. Hollis on this board by some members. Was he a maker? London or Birmingham?

Saad

22 April 2002, 20:44

<Rusty>

They are not the same. I. Hollis is not the same quality as A. Hollis and Sons. I Hollis made a lesser quality shotgun and the couple of rifles I have seen have not been great.

A. Hollis' operation was formerly of Mincing Lane, London. My friend Mark Cash has a letter from Boothroyd confirming that the I. Hollis and A. Hollis were not the same operation.

Rusty
We band of brothers

23 April 2002, 03:54

<Husky>

Why doesn't any of the bigger double rifles companies today like Merkel, Krieghoff, Antonio Zoli etc build a 450/400 double???

/Husky

23 April 2002, 04:31

<Kalle Stolt>

Perhaps because they (at least Krieghoff) got the 500/416.

BTW, I saw (on their website) that Blaser says that they are going to build their new sbs double in heavy safari calibres.

------------------
Kalle Stolt

23 April 2002, 07:33

<Husky>

The 500/416 is not in my opinion a substitue for an 450/400. Compare it with a .416 Remington with a .416 Rigby...

/Husky

23 April 2002, 08:08

<Kalle Stolt>

Husky,
I didn't say that it was a substitute, but they are in many ways quite similar(.408/.416 caliber, 400/410 gr bullet at 2100-2400 fps), or so it seems to me.
It's just one of many possible answers to your question.

23 April 2002, 10:11

<Rusty>

Probably, the reason they don't make new doubles in 450/400 3 inch is lack of factory ammo for several years. There are a few making them now, but far from production line product. More like specail order.

I know Butch said he wouldn't make one. I'll check with some of the houses and see if a new 450/400 is possible? I'll let ya know. If anyone finds a rifle maker who will build a 450/400 please let us know.

Rusty
We band of brothers!