I heard from a reliable source that Madikwe recently shot 45 Lions in the reserve, the Lion population had reached 100 animals and was having an adverse effect on the other predators, namely cheetah. Apparently they tried to find a reserve in South Africa to move the Lions to but were unsuccesful so the only option was to remove entire family groups i.e. whole prides.

A significant portion of the initial funding in establishing Madikwe was hunters dollars. A few years back they stopped all hunting and now they are 100% photographic. The job of shooting an entire pride is something that nobody would enjoy and is certainly not hunting. But i am willing to hazard a guess that at least 2 magnificent males were shot during the cull and what a waste of potential money which could have been funneled straight back into conserving and funding Madikwe - a true conservation story of land that was in recent history overgrazed cattle farms and now has been restored to Big 5 country.

And the big question is if the likes of Lion Aid, the Jouberts etc are so respected and effective where were they when 45 Lions "needed" them?

I'll bet you Gorongosa would have liked to have had them.

I spent a few days at Madikwe four years ago and am not surpised to hear about the lions. When I was their the young ranger we rode with was very open about the fact that they had to bring in game for the predators to eat as the natural breeding would not sustain them. She was also open about the fact that they had more elephants than the gound could support and that they were having no luck finding places that would take them. She said that in the end a cull may be the only thing that they would be able to do. A sort of side note to this is that the first elephants in the reserve had been from a herd in Zim that had been culled and they are much more aggresive than those in many parks in RSA. I know that they have had atleast one visitor hurt. Sad to hear about the big cats but if you ever get a chance to see Madikwe take it, great lodges, wonderful land and game viewing.

Manyathelo
The two biggest lions I have ever seen were in Madikwe. They were 13 2 years back but still holding the dominant pride.

Very tall at the shoulder with sparse black manes.

Got a few pics here somewhere, friend of mind was a ranger there and spent a lot of time around the lions.

That is sad to hear about the lions.

Are they going to allow the elephants to decimate the whole reserve before culling them or will we be able to hunt a few and not only help solve the problem but also pay for solving their problem?

This is a very common practice in south Africa with a lot of reserves.but they frown on hunting

quote:

Originally posted by jimmara:
This is a very common practice in south Africa with a lot of reserves.but they frown on hunting

Like they sometimes say in Australia - no, they must be culled by Professionals - not Amateur hunters!!

Just a few million dollars in lost revenue. A million here, a million there...and pretty soon you are talking about serious money.

Again

I can see where it would be difficult to find homes for the lions in SA but I am sure Gorongosa would have been interested...I may be wrong and/or there may be legalities that come into play sending them to Moz.

I know there was atleast one big lion sport hunted in Pilanesberg NP which is not too far from Madikwe (Actually there is a plan to connect the 2 areas). Would have been FOOLISH not to let a sport hunter take any mature males that were shot by the reserve and capture that $ 50K ? that would have been generated per lion.

More and more influence from IFAW, SCAR, ARA and other assorted twats and wankers.
And I would not be surprised is there is not more than a few dollars passed under the counter to influence those who need to be influenced.
Of course there are the likes of Prof Rudi van Aardt who spins horse wallop on behalf of IFAW as scientific fact.

Such a total waste.

quote:

Originally posted by Safari2:
Would have been FOOLISH not to let a sport hunter take any mature males that were shot by the reserve and capture that $ 50K ? that would have been generated per lion.

There is a market for lioness too. Price those at 10K all in and the big males at 40K and you will sell them all day long.

I fully agree, What a waste.

the problem is that Madikwe falls under the provicial parks board. Legislation prohibits hunting in any national or provincial park. I do not agree with this. With proper planning limited hunting can take place in national parks, which can create a lot of much needed cash for managing our wildlife areas. Getting in hunters that are in any way supervised by proffesionals can be a viable option instead of just culling the whole family group.

Jaco, I cannot disagree more strongly. Provincial parks do put out hunting quota's from time to time, and Pilansberg, as a National Park sell hunts for Rhino and Elephant periodicaly, ussualy for specific animals.

It is, however, national policy NOT to allow hunting in the Kruger, Addo and some other parks, to protect the genepool of the species (which is not realy a good idea if you look at the inbreeding in the Kruger amongst a lot of species).

quote:

Originally posted by infinito:
Jaco, I cannot disagree more strongly. Provincial parks do put out hunting quota's from time to time, and Pilansberg, as a National Park sell hunts for Rhino and Elephant periodicaly, ussualy for specific animals.

It is, however, national policy NOT to allow hunting in the Kruger, Addo and some other parks, to protect the genepool of the species (which is not realy a good idea if you look at the inbreeding in the Kruger amongst a lot of species).

Very limited, and why do they cull themselves when they can sell it to hunters?

quote:

Originally posted by Jaco Human:

quote:

Originally posted by infinito:
Jaco, I cannot disagree more strongly. Provincial parks do put out hunting quota's from time to time, and Pilansberg, as a National Park sell hunts for Rhino and Elephant periodicaly, ussualy for specific animals.

It is, however, national policy NOT to allow hunting in the Kruger, Addo and some other parks, to protect the genepool of the species (which is not realy a good idea if you look at the inbreeding in the Kruger amongst a lot of species).

Very limited, and why do they cull themselves when they can sell it to hunters?

'cause they run on a 6 volt battery with one buggered cell.