The Accurate Reloading Forums
Hunter's gunshots signal doom to tourism in Tarangire

This topic can be found at:
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1411043/m/1861047121

04 December 2009, 18:54
Kathi
Hunter's gunshots signal doom to tourism in Tarangire
Local News

Hunters’ gunshots signal doom to tourism in Tarangire

By Arusha Times Reporter


What currently ails Loliondo Game Controlled Area could easily be replicated at Tarangire National Park; the line separating hunting activities and conservation in the area is rapidly fading.

Park authority foresees imminent problems, including conflicts unless something is done to save the situation.

Mr Erasto Lufungulo the Chief Warden at Tarangire revealed that gunshots from nearby hunting blocks have started to scare tourists and things continue getting worse because visitors on game drives have been encountering gory incidences of killed animals and their hunters busy chopping off heads and limbs from their games.

“There are some hunting blocks that border the park and regular gunshots can be heard by tourists taking game drives or those staying at hotels or lodges here, these scare them and most get even more frightened upon witnessing hunters slaughtering animals nearby,” Mr Lufungulo pointed out.

The Warden did not rule out the possibility of firearms accidents should bullets miss their wildlife targets and hit human beings.

Apart from licensed commercial hunters, Tarangire Park also suffers poaching activities and between January and November this year a total of 145 illegal hunters were arrested which has almost tripled the number of poachers who were arrested last year (51).

According to Mr Lufungulo, poachers have hatched new schemes including planting poisoned watermelons along routes used by elephants thus killing the jumbos. A total of seven elephants were killed this year.

“Tarangire poachers mainly target elephant tusks and the problem here is that our animals sometimes venture outside the park and once outside our territory illegal hunters can kill them at will because our wardens have no mandate to make any arrests outside the park and whenever the situation call for it we are forced to seek assistance from the local police force,” he explained.


Kathi

kathi@wildtravel.net
708-425-3552

"The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page."
04 December 2009, 19:35
bwanamrm
Roll Eyes

I like the way they seamlessly roll hunters in with poachers in this article. Plain to see this author is not biased.

And if you think about it, what activity, hunting or game viewing brings in the most revenue to their country?


On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died.

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch...
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
- Rudyard Kipling

Life grows grim without senseless indulgence.
04 December 2009, 20:19
Dave Fulson
Ditto . Bye the way GREAT ELE bull my friend!


Dave Fulson
04 December 2009, 21:07
bwanamrm
Thanks Dave!


On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died.

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch...
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
- Rudyard Kipling

Life grows grim without senseless indulgence.
04 December 2009, 21:24
BrettAKSCI
Are tourists on Adam and Luke's trophy fee list?

Brett


DRSS
Life Member SCI
Life Member NRA
Life Member WSF

Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter
May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick.
And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too.
May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep.
May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip.
-Seth Peterson
04 December 2009, 21:58
jetdrvr
quote:
Originally posted by Brett Adam Barringer:
Are tourists on Adam and Luke's trophy fee list?

Brett


That'a a novel idea...
04 December 2009, 22:02
Blacktailer
Sounds like an excellent teaching opportunity. Maybe SCI should print up a brochure to be distributed to the tourists explaining the benefits of hunting. "Viewer Discretion is Advised". Big Grin


Have gun- Will travel
The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark
04 December 2009, 22:11
crbutler
Typical anti hunting press statement. I wouldn't be surprised if the guy has family involved in phototourism.

As to the "upset about hunting in photo areas" crowd, I remember being in Zambia on the Luangwa where we were hunting Lion. The phototourists were driving on to the hunting concession to observe the lions at night with lights, off the hunting baits. I'm sure they were complaining the whole time about the "mean nasty hunters slaughtering animals" while taking their photos on the baits. I'm sure they were complaining about the hunting in the national park as well, even though they were several miles out of it at that point. I really don't understand their complaints- wouldn't the animal viewing be even better deep in the park, as opposed to on the borders??? After all, the hunters are driving them in to it with their "senseless killing"

Maybe it has to do with the hunting companies putting in roads, doing anti poaching patrols, hiring local people to work so they don't poach, etc. which allows the hunting area to have enough animals that these folks are willing to view them, just don't ask them to pay for it.
04 December 2009, 23:54
cable68
quote:
Originally posted by Kathi:

“Tarangire poachers mainly target elephant tusks and the problem here is that our animals sometimes venture outside the park and once outside our territory illegal hunters can kill them at will because our wardens have no mandate to make any arrests outside the park and whenever the situation call for it we are forced to seek assistance from the local police force,” he explained.


Once outside the park legal hunters can take them as well can't they?


Caleb
05 December 2009, 04:43
MARK H. YOUNG
This is basically BS as there is a 2K buffer between the hunting area and Tarangire. If photo tourists are seeing dead animals and running into hunters its because the photo tour guide is telling them its the park when actually they are in the hunting block. Some of these photo outfits are actually in the buffer zone and do not take their clients actually into the park at all.

Mark


MARK H. YOUNG
MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES
7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110
Office 702-848-1693
Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED
E-mail markttc@msn.com
Website: myexclusiveadventures.com
Skype: markhyhunter
Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716
05 December 2009, 08:19
bwanamrm
I wondered when you or Adam would weigh in on this one Mark. Lolkisale borders Tarangire.... as do other concessions.


On the plains of hesitation lie the bleached bones of ten thousand, who on the dawn of victory lay down their weary heads resting, and there resting, died.

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch...
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!
- Rudyard Kipling

Life grows grim without senseless indulgence.
05 December 2009, 10:17
N E 450 No2
Well.. seeing as how many "Camera" Safari people seem to get stomped... chewed... gored... bit... or clawed.... hearing a few gunshots would be reassuring... Big Grin


DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY
05 December 2009, 12:17
Bwanamich
quote:
Originally posted by bwanamrm:

And if you think about it, what activity, hunting or game viewing brings in the most revenue to their country?


Actually, non-consumptive tourism brings in much more revenue to the Government then consumptive. Consumptive revenue generated per client is much higher than non-consumptive.

The problem around Tarangire (and elsewhere) really highlights the confusion that reigns where overlapping wildlife and tourism legislation does not conform. There has been a proliferation of photo tourism development on the outskirts of Tarangire, all of which falls within the designated hunting blocks. Now Gov doesn't know what to do without being exposed to the threat of legal action by an aggrieved party!

Ultimately, I believe non-consumptive will win and those blocks in OA that have a high demand from photo operators will eventually be converted. a shame really.


"...Them, they were Giants!"
J.A. Hunter describing the early explorers and settlers of East Africa

hunting is not about the killing but about the chase of the hunt.... Ortega Y Gasset
05 December 2009, 15:47
Bryan Chick
Well, I never considered myself "geographically challenged", but where is tarangire?
05 December 2009, 18:42
ozhunter
South east of the Serengeti Nat Park and a little south of Arusha in Masailand, Tanzania.
05 December 2009, 19:40
BrettAKSCI
Here's an interactive map of Tanzania with Tarangire NP on it. Adam Clemente's 2 blocks are on the east boundary with Luke Samaras' block touching right between the two.

http://www.safaripatrol.com/map_tanzania.shtml

Brett


DRSS
Life Member SCI
Life Member NRA
Life Member WSF

Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter
May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick.
And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too.
May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep.
May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip.
-Seth Peterson
05 December 2009, 20:00
BrettAKSCI
Don't worry guys it actually wasn't us hunters they heard shooting after all!! I figured it out:
http://forums.accuratereloadin...1411043/m/2631017121

Brett


DRSS
Life Member SCI
Life Member NRA
Life Member WSF

Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter
May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick.
And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too.
May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep.
May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip.
-Seth Peterson
05 December 2009, 23:39
Gerrypeters375
This story reminds me of something that I always have wondered about. Has any African government (or anyone else) ever done a study about who spends more money in the country -the tourists or the hunters? Can any African government do without hunter revenue? Why can't it be made clear by hunter groups to travel tourists that what they are being sold is nothing more than a glorified visit to a zoo? If they really want an "African experience" then hire an outfitter and PHs (yeah, they carry loaded rifles,sorry)Smiler and go on a "camera" safari. But, no, those tourists want every luxury of "civilization" -including meals in dining rooms eating off linen tables. It's called "having your cake and eating it too".
06 December 2009, 00:13
BrettAKSCI
quote:
Originally posted by Gerrypeters375:
This story reminds me of something that I always have wondered about. Has any African government (or anyone else) ever done a study about who spends more money in the country -the tourists or the hunters? Can any African government do without hunter revenue? Why can't it be made clear by hunter groups to travel tourists that what they are being sold is nothing more than a glorified visit to a zoo? If they really want an "African experience" then hire an outfitter and PHs (yeah, they carry loaded rifles,sorry)Smiler and go on a "camera" safari. But, no, those tourists want every luxury of "civilization" -including meals in dining rooms eating off linen tables. It's called "having your cake and eating it too".


If you refernce BwanaMich's post above and studies that are out there you will find that photo tourism is more profitable over all than hunting. Hunters spend FAR more money per person, but there are FAR more photo tourists. The immediate problems with this are two fold:

1. Becuase photo tourism needs so many more people to be profitable it is VERY high impact. Habituation of wildlife, degredation of roads due to motor vehicle travel, litering, increased resource consumption, increased staffing needs, ect, ect, ect. This is as aposed to hunting which is relatively low impact.

2. Photo tourists won't go everywhere hunters will and quite frankly shouldn't. Hunters will gladly pay $10,000s of dollars to hunt areas with a fraction of the game, tons of brush, mosquitoes, tse flies, and diseases! Your average photo tourist won't plain and simple! That's one of the reasons why hunting is so important. We have a vested interest in protecting the wildlife of places there no one else wants to be. We can make sure the timber isn't cleared and the animals aren't poached.

Brett


DRSS
Life Member SCI
Life Member NRA
Life Member WSF

Rhyme of the Sheep Hunter
May fordings never be too deep, And alders not too thick; May rock slides never be too steep And ridges not too slick.
And may your bullets shoot as swell As Fred Bear's arrow's flew; And may your nose work just as well As Jack O'Connor's too.
May winds be never at your tail When stalking down the steep; May bears be never on your trail When packing out your sheep.
May the hundred pounds upon you Not make you break or trip; And may the plane in which you flew Await you at the strip.
-Seth Peterson
06 December 2009, 00:36
Gerrypeters375
Brett:

Wev are arguing at cross purposes. I didn't mean that "photo tourists" should not live under the same conditions as hunters in the bush. I'm saying that hunter groups should try to get a younger crowd (already anti-hunting perhaps -but maybe open to conversion after a night in the real bush) Smilerto want to go into the bush and see real wild animals "close up". Who knows? Hearing the territorial roar of a male lion at night from inside a flimsy tent might give them a new perspective! Smiler
06 December 2009, 00:40
Cazador humilde
quote:
Originally posted by Gerrypeters375:
Brett:

Wev are arguing at cross purposes. I didn't mean that "photo tourists" should not live under the same conditions as hunters in the bush. I'm saying that hunter groups should try to get a younger crowd (already anti-hunting perhaps -but maybe open to conversion after a night in the real bush) Smilerto want to go into the bush and see real wild animals "close up". Who knows? Hearing the territorial roar of a male lion at night from inside a flimsy tent might give them a new perspective! Smiler



Just tell the younger "greener" crowd that their ever-so-important "carbon footprint" would be less if they were hunting!

And, it's always been my main reason for going to Africa to..."chop off heads and limbs from my games." Raping and pillaging is only if I have time left over before my flight.
06 December 2009, 01:51
ozhunter
I have been fortunate enough to spend a bit of time in some of East and southern Africa's best known Parks and I can tell you that very few Tourists would be remotely interested in going to 80% of the reserves that sustain Africa's game.
A prime example is Nyassa Game reserve. This place has little for the average Photo Tourist, but boy its a hunters paradise.
So who is paying to keep these wild areas from becoming farmland?