Going forward someone in the hunting party should be bring a sturdy flip up saw that cut a buffalo horn.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

quote:

Originally posted by Brec:
I hunted buffalo there with CVS last year. Had a good hunt, but the brush is very thick. Easy to see how this could happen.

Not sure I agree with you. You track Buffalo, and you are downwind. Any thick bush you avoid and evaluate. Use your sense of smell. In such scenarios, the PH should be killed and not the client. During my time, I have encountered some questionable PHs, and I hope this was not the case.

I have buffalo hunted with Andrew - he's got his stuff together on buffalo. We were never in a hurry, grass was almost head high most of the way. When we got to them under a set of trees, downwind, we shot our buff with one good shot, Andrew did request an insurance shot just in case. He was very protective of his client, ME!

Had no issues with this either. Definitely enjoyed that hunt.

Doesn’t matter how good the PH is.

Things go south regardless.

We have been situations where nothing happened, not due to how good we were, but due good luck.

quote:

The area was too thick for a helicopter to land. He was fully impaled. My friend is a former trauma surgeon. He said they unfortunately pulled the body off the horn without the proper first aid kit for such a massive wound, nor did they have the means to saw the horn off the buffalo.

quote:

Mistake pulling him off the horn but i guess not too many choices

quote:

Going forward someone in the hunting party should be bring a sturdy flip up saw that cut a buffalo horn.

Sometimes, you're just fucked.

quote:

Originally posted by GunsCore:
Going forward someone in the hunting party should be bring a sturdy flip up saw that cut a buffalo horn.

. . . or just some QuikClot combat gauze packs. Sort of amazed that would not be in a PH's backpack on a dangerous game hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:

quote:

Originally posted by GunsCore:
Going forward someone in the hunting party should be bring a sturdy flip up saw that cut a buffalo horn.

. . . or just some QuikClot combat gauze packs. Sort of amazed that would not be in a PH's backpack on a dangerous game hunt.

Thank you for suggesting this.

Just ordered some to take with me next month.

I normally have a complete first aid for small wounds.

I will add this to it.

quote:

. . or just some QuikClot combat gauze packs. Sort of amazed that would not be in a PH's backpack on a dangerous game hunt.

I doubt it would perform its functions on lacerated organs within the abdominal cavity as the internal bleeding would continue; if for example the liver has been ruptured its "goodbye cruel world".

It would however be very useful/effective on injuries to the lower limbs/groin in particular, where an irate buffalo usually finds his mark and an uncontrolled bleeding of the femoral artery has sent a number of good people prematurely to their graves.

Not sure if the product is readily available to the public at the local chemists in darkest Africa but will look into it.

Not sure about Africa but available on Amazon

Something simple like this for under $30 would be far better to me than trying to saw off a horn. The military no longer uses the QuikClot granules. They do use the QuikClot gauze packs. I think they use Celox granules.

Bleeding Control Trauma Kit

I like to think I'm pretty well prepared for the unexpected

Most first aid kits are better suited for homeowner duty, with children in mind. Heavy on bandaids, salves and ointments. Anybody that has one of those in the field, is living a false sense of security.

Years ago, I put together a trauma kit that stays in my truck. It's tailored toward jobsite or outdoor related injuries/trauma. Think chainsaws, firearm accidents, knife accidents, jobsite tool injuries etc. It contains clot stop bandages, sucking chest wound kit, splints, eyewash, tourniquet, forceps etc. A trauma kit is a whole different animal from a first aid kit.

It's hard to be prepared for everything though.

I always carry some gauze and shorter ropes besides three ways to start fire just in case
Wandering in wilderness areas for days, anything can happen
In Africa I have not thought about it but like Saeed said, I will get some of that stuff just in case

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Something simple like this for under $30 would be far better to me than trying to saw off a horn. The military no longer uses the QuikClot granules. They do use the QuikClot gauze packs. I think they use Celox granules.

Bleeding Control Trauma Kit

thank you for the reminder and the celox as well.

I’ve gotten crap for this before here, but here goes again…

Quickclot powder was stopped due to it being exothermic. In essence it can burn tissue.

The military trains its folks in basic combat medicine.

The society recommendations are not to use hemostatic agents like quickclot or celox in wounds you can’t compress.

I would rather have a trained paramedic with a dirty handkerchief than a totally untrained person with all the trauma kits in the world. Yes, hemostatic agents can be very useful… if you have some basics.

Get some training. Most local school systems offer Red Cross first aid classes.

From what has been said here, the guy undoubtedly had a deep artery injury and they could not apply adequate pressure to the area. The foreign object often is compressing a injured blood vessel, and as soon as you pull it out you have a brief opportunity to clamp that vessel (and identify it as such) which is why you try and leave penetrating objects in if you can.

Hemostatic treated gauze/granules tightly packed in with gauze and applying pressure can sometimes be lifesaving. So can clamping the vessel ASAP. Cutdown and clamping in this situation might well cause amputation, but save their life… if you know what you are doing.

All this “I’m bringing quickclot” is a knee jerk response. Get a basic first aid class, a basic trauma course, THEN decide what kind of equipment you feel you want.

What I take would be very different from what a layman takes.

Training is wayyyyyy more important than a single piece of equipment. There are a ton of programs out there, but Stop The Bleed is one of the more readily available right now. DOD and ACS developed program to bring basic trauma casualty care to the lay person.
I started teaching courses locally through our SCI chapter this year. I'm going to be teaching a course in Zambia on the tail end of our hunt this fall to a group of Zambian PH's, through Muchinga Adventures. Our chapter will be providing basic trauma kits (tourniquet, wound packing, pressure bandage, chest seal, gloves) to the PH's who complete the course. We're hoping to bring this to other southern African professional hunters' associations to follow.

quote:

Originally posted by Brandon.Gleason:
Training is wayyyyyy more important than a single piece of equipment. There are a ton of programs out there, but Stop The Bleed is one of the more readily available right now. DOD and ACS developed program to bring basic trauma casualty care to the lay person.
I started teaching courses locally through our SCI chapter this year. I'm going to be teaching a course in Zambia on the tail end of our hunt this fall to a group of Zambian PH's, through Muchinga Adventures. Our chapter will be providing basic trauma kits (tourniquet, wound packing, pressure bandage, chest seal, gloves) to the PH's who complete the course. We're hoping to bring this to other southern African professional hunters' associations to follow.

This is good information. I'll have to see if there's a stop the bleed course locally.

This is all good stuff Brandon. Having the kit is one thing, knowing how to use it properly is probably more important.

I have carried one for years and always left it miles away in camp! It was finally put to the test when my sister in law cut her finger cutting vegetables and there was nothing there that could stop it . I need to rethink this

quote:

Originally posted by Brandon.Gleason:
Training is wayyyyyy more important than a single piece of equipment. There are a ton of programs out there, but Stop The Bleed is one of the more readily available right now. DOD and ACS developed program to bring basic trauma casualty care to the lay person.
I started teaching courses locally through our SCI chapter this year. I'm going to be teaching a course in Zambia on the tail end of our hunt this fall to a group of Zambian PH's, through Muchinga Adventures. Our chapter will be providing basic trauma kits (tourniquet, wound packing, pressure bandage, chest seal, gloves) to the PH's who complete the course. We're hoping to bring this to other southern African professional hunters' associations to follow.

Fulvio,

I had a client who hunted with Bob Fontana multiple times. Bob was a sheep guide in Canada and my client was a sheep nut. We were both shocked when Bob was killed because he was an experienced hunter. Much later, I had lunch with Paddy in Simanjiro and heard the details. Apparently, they were looking at tracks, looking for lesser kudu, and the bull came boiling out of a clump of brush next to the waterhole and got Bob before Paddy could put it down. Bob had a light rifle in his hands. A case of bad luck.

Don't know what happened here, but I've tracked a lot of buffalo and as far as I know, no one had a saw to cut off a horn on them.

quote:

Bob had a light rifle in his hands. A case of bad luck.

The group was not tracking Buffalo but rather in search of Lesser Kudu and Bob was armed accordingly.

The suggestion of sawing off the horn that has gone through the abdomen and/or rib cage is wishful thinking as the level of some injuries can at times be beyond help.

Frankly I’ll take my chances with QuikClot and/or Celox as opposed to someone with a saw or a dirty handkerchief.

Ultimately we have to make do with whatever one has.

Always bearing in mind that we are hunting in remote areas, where medical attention is not always hand.

Here is a related story.

We had a friend with us who was overweight.

And on high blood premeditation.

During the safari, he felt unwell, and spent the days in camp.

Blaming his condition on his medication.

He started getting worse towards the end of our safari.

But he wasn’t in as bad a condition as to require immediate treatment.

He kept telling us he gets these sometimes and it all goes away.

On the flight to Dar, he required oxygen, which they had in the plane.

We called ahead for a med team to meet us as we arrived.

The medics examined him in our charter plane, and anthat he needs immediate hospitalization.

He was absolutely livid!

He did not want to be taken to hospital in Dar.

He said he would prefer treatment in Dubai.

The medics said not in his present condition, as no airline would carry him, and most probably wouldn’t make it to Dubai.

We arranged for him to be taken to hospital with someone to be with him.

He was American but had no medical insurance.

No matter, arrangements were made for him to be treated.

In the hospital he they found he had sleeping sickness!

They required medication which was not available in Tanzania, but in Nairobi Kenya.

Arrangements were made for a flight crew to bring that medication as someone caught them before their flight to Dar.

He got stabilized with the medication.

The doctors recommended he flies to Nairobi as they had better experience in treating sleeping sickness.

We flew him to Nairobi.

He remained there for quite a while.

When he was well again, he flew back to the US.

On another note.

Forget being injured on a hunt.

I know of individuals who are very healthy, spend a lot of time hunting dangerous game, and never get into any hairy situations.

Then back home.

Totally out of the blue.

They’d feel unwell one morning.

Off to the doctor, and suddenly they have some very nasty, depilating disease !

This is life!

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Frankly I’ll take my chances with QuikClot and/or Celox as opposed to someone with a saw or a dirty handkerchief.

Ok, where do you put it?

When?

How do you get it where it is supposed to go.


Who does it?

What happens when you have it, but you are hit and no one else knows where it is and what to do?

Throw a bunch of quickclot on the outside of an injury and what happens?

What happens when you are the uninjured party and you fail because you couldn’t be bothered to get a simple class?

A trained person will likely have something and know what to do. Even if they don’t have much, they know what to do and can improvise.

Kind of like the line about cops… when seconds count, the air ambulance is hours away.

I used to carry tampons in first aid kits for bullet wounds and the quick clot gauze packets as well, but first of all the quick clot gauze isn't big enough to cover a horn wound and two, they go bad in your kit after a few years. They get hard.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Frankly I’ll take my chances with QuikClot and/or Celox as opposed to someone with a saw or a dirty handkerchief.

Ok, where do you put it?

When?

How do you get it where it is supposed to go.


Who does it?

What happens when you have it, but you are hit and no one else knows where it is and what to do?

Throw a bunch of quickclot on the outside of an injury and what happens?

What happens when you are the uninjured party and you fail because you couldn’t be bothered to get a simple class?

A trained person will likely have something and know what to do. Even if they don’t have much, they know what to do and can improvise.

Kind of like the line about cops… when seconds count, the air ambulance is hours away.

My friend and PH Greg Michelson died of similar circumstances. It haunts me to think that he could have been saved if his team had some medical knowledge.

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

My friend and PH Greg Michelson died of similar circumstances. It haunts me to think that he could have been saved if his team had some medical knowledge.

I'm very sorry for the loss of your friend. That story is the catalyst behind the Stop the Bleed training I'm doing with the du Plooy's in November. Reach out to Laura if you're in Lusaka Nov 14 and interested in attending.

Bandages or wads soaked with brake fluid also work wonders in stemming minor blood flows.

quote:

Originally posted by Brandon.Gleason:

quote:

Originally posted by fairgame:

My friend and PH Greg Michelson died of similar circumstances. It haunts me to think that he could have been saved if his team had some medical knowledge.

I'm very sorry for the loss of your friend. That story is the catalyst behind the Stop the Bleed training I'm doing with the du Plooy's in November. Reach out to Laura if you're in Lusaka Nov 14 and interested in attending.

About 10 years ago I was hunting with Muchinga and had Alister Norton as PH. Both Johnny and Alister has some appy hunters and I was asked in the down time to go over medical issues with them.

It was interesting in that I thought they would want to talk about major trauma… they actually wanted to talk about snake bite, heart attack, and heat illness more. I guess it was more common, and they had some trauma training (not very in depth, but something…)

I usually bring my range trauma kit with me and leave it- that way I’m forced to replace it periodically, and I like to think it helps.

Last time the PH asked for more hemostats… apparently they work well to pull hooks out of fish…

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Frankly I’ll take my chances with QuikClot and/or Celox as opposed to someone with a saw or a dirty handkerchief.

Without training, you might as well carry red lipstick. At least then you'll look pretty when you bend over and kiss your ass good-bye.