KMG,

I could see a bit of unease in you trying to explain why a 40+ caliber rifle has a notable difference over a 375 in your tone. That's the problem with anecdote, experience, and then trying to put it into scientifically reasonable explanations as to "why?".

What I would say is that you're in good company. What you're professing through experience is precisely the sentiments Pondoro Taylor tried to explain in his book a century ago. It's why the 450-400 and 404J got the reputation they did as well.

What a lot of folks would say is that a heavy for caliber bullet moving slower has more "hang time" in the animal rather than just the hydrostatic shock of a gas bubble moving through the beast. Certainly, the clotting factors and the biological response is going to be different between a cannon ball (metaphorically) and a 50gr bullet travelling at 5000fps (metaphorically) even if both have the exact same energy.

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Originally posted by KMG Hunting Safaris:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

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Originally posted by KMG Hunting Safaris:
No rifle has taken more Buffalo than the .375 and I don't think that number will ever be surpassed in history.
Saying that, my experience is that there is a considerable difference in the reaction from the animal after getting hit by a .375 and .416.

Would you be kind enough to explain the considerable difference you have noticed please?

Saeed, I'm trying to think of how to put this into words but will try. Almost like their spirit gets broken.
I have always maintained that the "toughness" of an animal should not be judged on a good shot, but judge them on a bad shot.
In my experience, I have found that Buff getting hit with a 416 stopped to wait for us a lot quicker than compared to a 375. Shoot them in the correct spot, and they all go down. The 416 just seemed to break them down better on the less than desirable shots.
I fully appreciate the notion that a bigger caliber does not make up for a bad shot and agree that a good shot from a 375 is better than a bad shot from a bigger caliber.
All factors be equal, a bad shot from a bigger caliber carries more value than a bad shot from a 375.
If my hunters want to use one of my rifles, and not accustomed to larger calibers, then a well placed shot from the 375 will do the job. If they are familiar with larger calibers, then I will rather have them use my 416 Rigby.

Very strange.

In all my hunting years, and the buffalos I have shot and seen shot, I have never experienced any of what you have.

I like your "almost like their spirit gets broken".

Reminds me of talking to salesmen at the Holland and Holland showroom in London trying to sell the Holland and Holland 240 Magnum.

It is a 243 caliber that shoots a 100 grain bullet at 2900 fps.

According to them, apparently it kills stag much better than a 100 grain shot from a normal 243 Winchester!

Glad non of the buffalo we shoot have no "spirits"!

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Originally posted by Rookhawk:
KMG,

I could see a bit of unease in you trying to explain why a 40+ caliber rifle has a notable difference over a 375 in your tone. That's the problem with anecdote, experience, and then trying to put it into scientifically reasonable explanations as to "why?".

What I would say is that you're in good company. What you're professing through experience is precisely the sentiments Pondoro Taylor tried to explain in his book a century ago. It's why the 450-400 and 404J got the reputation they did as well.

What a lot of folks would say is that a heavy for caliber bullet moving slower has more "hang time" in the animal rather than just the hydrostatic shock of a gas bubble moving through the beast. Certainly, the clotting factors and the biological response is going to be different between a cannon ball (metaphorically) and a 50gr bullet travelling at 5000fps (metaphorically) even if both have the exact same energy.

I am very sorry, but Taylors Knockout is nothing but a load of pure bullshit.

Arm chair gun writers made a real meal of it in the past.

For those who have been hunting most of their lives, it has no value whatsoever.

And here I am going to Zim in October to shoot one with with my bow.

Anecdotally, the one I shot with my 3-7-5 H&H at 75y is just as dead as the one I shot at 40y with my 500 Nitro.

Not about what, but where you shoot 'em....

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Originally posted by FMC:
And here I am going to Zim in October to shoot one with with my bow.

Anecdotally, the one I shot with my 3-7-5 H&H at 75y is just as dead as the one I shot at 40y with my 500 Nitro.

Not about what, but where you shoot 'em....

If you can get close enough, and strong enough, you can stick an arrow in them by hand!

Same results!

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Is The 375 Adequate For Buffalo?

Is The 375 Adequate For Buffalo?
YES

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Originally posted by FMC:
And here I am going to Zim in October to shoot one with with my bow.

Anecdotally, the one I shot with my 3-7-5 H&H at 75y is just as dead as the one I shot at 40y with my 500 Nitro.

Not about what, but where you shoot 'em....

A blade kills them very quickly.

A lot if interesting comments. I will share kind of what started me down this path. Many years ago when my son was starting hunting he used one of my guns and as so many teenagers was very hard on the gun so I decided to get him his own so he could bang it up instead of one of mine. I did not have much money to spend so long story short I found an old Mauser 98 in 8mm Mauser that had been sporterized and was at a reasonable price. Factory ammos as horrible so I worked up a load for a 175 grain sierra bullet at about 2600FPS. Being use to the fast magnums I did not have much respect for a 175 grain bullet at 2600. Over the course of the next 25 years my son has taken many deer, antelope and elk with that gun and load and it has been a fantastic killer. It may not have the penetration of my 338 but the bullets always drive straight and make a 1/2 to 1 inch hole through everything. It does not make many of those big bolt of lighting drop right there kills but I do not ever remember any animal going more than 50-100 yards before going down. It is another one of those loads that just work every time. Over the years I have gained a lot of respect for that gun and load and had to revise what I thought was a low end cartridge and load to a much higher level. I think the "lower" velocity has a lot to do with the kill consistency that this achieves.