Solids for buffalo in 9.3X62

03 November 2008, 20:40

Dave Bush

For those with experience with a 9.3x63 on buffalo, what do you think about just using solids, even for the first shot? I have been shooting some 250 grain Barnes banded solids through my rifle at the range and I have got to think that the flat tip on the new Barnes banded solids would cause a lot of damage.

Dave

Dave
DRSS
Chapuis 9.3X74
Chapuis "Jungle" .375 FL
Krieghoff 500/.416 NE
Krieghoff 500 NE

"Git as close as y can laddie an then git ten yards closer"

"If the biggest, baddest animals on the planet are on the menu, and you'd rather pay a taxidermist than a mortician, consider the 500 NE as the last word in life insurance." Hornady Handbook of Cartridge Reloading (8th Edition).

03 November 2008, 21:18

JudgeG

Last October, I took a buffalo with my Merkel 141E in 9.3x74 and Barnes X bullets in 250 grains. I'd have used 286's but couldn't get them to regulate in the limited time I had.

The X's performed perfectly with full petals. First shot was at 30 yards or so, slightly quartering towards me. Bullet broke near shoulder and was under skin on far side after buggering up both lungs and a piece of liver. Bull ran about 70 yards and humped up and just stood there. He'd have been dead in a few seconds in retrospect, but I don't feel so good about a buffalo still standing, so... Second shot was through lungs a bit high and I walked up to the bull and spined him at the junction of neck to shoulders putting him down. One more shot, just cause I could, into chest.

The spine shot wasn't recovered nor was the second as it was a pass through. Coup de grace was mushroomed as advertised and broke ribs coming and going (recovered about 1/2 inch in soft mud when the bull was rolled over).

I think that this was the 5th buffalo I've killed with Barnes X bullets (or their successors). Damn things work for me. I'd not worry about solids except for follow up.

03 November 2008, 21:23

Oday450

quote:
Originally posted by JudgeG:
Last October, I took a buffalo with my Merkel 141E in 9.3x74 and Barnes X bullets in 250 grains. I'd have used 286's but couldn't get them to regulate in the limited time I had.

The X's performed perfectly with full petals. First shot was at 30 yards or so, slightly quartering towards me. Bullet broke near shoulder and was under skin on far side after buggering up both lungs and a piece of liver. Bull ran about 70 yards and humped up and just stood there. He'd have been dead in a few seconds in retrospect, but I don't feel so good about a buffalo still standing, so... Second shot was through lungs a bit high and I walked up to the bull and spined him at the junction of neck to shoulders putting him down. One more shot, just cause I could, into chest.

The spine shot wasn't recovered nor was the second as it was a pass through. Coup de grace was mushroomed as advertised and broke ribs coming and going (recovered about 1/2 inch in soft mud when the bull was rolled over).

I think that this was the 5th buffalo I've killed with Barnes X bullets (or their successors). Damn things work for me. I'd not worry about solids except for follow up.

Judge,

What about the TSX? Do you think they would work as well without having to use solids?

03 November 2008, 21:28

Ganyana

Dave

Poor idea. I have seen a buff take a .375 solid through the heart and put in a fair charge 20 minutes later. I use a 9,3 and used to use solids for backing up clients. they make very small holes! If you don't hit the spine, they are going to take a long time to have any effect. A flat nosed solid is better...but a good soft wins hands down every time. Look at Swift, TSX... Even nosler partitions at 9,3 velocities.

03 November 2008, 21:32

Atkinson

I have used the Northfork cup points and they work very well, but they do expand a bit. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to have a solid for that second shot as they depart...I like solids in the bigger bores but the smaller the bore gets the less effective they become, no doubt in my mind about that..

In a 26 inch tube and loade right up there around 2350 FPS or a little faster, I like the Woodleigh 320 gr. bullet, and I like the 286 gr. Noslers.

03 November 2008, 23:57

JudgeG

Ganyana is the man. Do what he says.

Barnes TSX's are just better X's. Before long, all Barnes bullets (except solids) will have plastic tips to insure opening, but I've never had a problem to date with the older technology.

04 November 2008, 03:30

retreever

Oday450,

The TSX and the X bullets are buf stoppers and make them real sick fast... Massive destruction to tissue and massive blood loss..
Have used them in Zim and Tanzania on buf and plains game... They work period...

Mike

04 November 2008, 03:37

vapodog

quote:
Originally posted by Ganyana:
Dave

Poor idea. I have seen a buff take a .375 solid through the heart and put in a fair charge 20 minutes later. I use a 9,3 and used to use solids for backing up clients. they make very small holes! If you don't hit the spine, they are going to take a long time to have any effect. A flat nosed solid is better...but a good soft wins hands down every time. Look at Swift, TSX... Even nosler partitions at 9,3 velocities.

I asked a similar question some time ago.....the answer was as suggested here.....

Visit your local Swift A-Frame dealer for some A-Frames for your 9.3 X 62

04 November 2008, 03:47

Oday450

quote:
Originally posted by retreever:
Oday450,

The TSX and the X bullets are buf stoppers and make them real sick fast... Massive destruction to tissue and massive blood loss..
Have used them in Zim and Tanzania on buf and plains game... They work period...

Mike

Thanks Mike - that's as I expected.

The follow-up question is do they need to be backed up with solids? They penetrate so well that they have resulted in complete pass throughs on my zebra and gemsbook.

Not having hunted buff yet but preparing for next fall I need to select bullets and develop loads.

04 November 2008, 04:49

AllenBosely

How would the Woodleigh 286 gn PP compare to the TSX and Swift? As good or not as good?

Allen

04 November 2008, 04:59

dirklawyer

quote:
Originally posted by vapodog:
Visit your local Swift A-Frame dealer for some A-Frames for your 9.3 X 62

Ditto's Vapodog,

The Swift a-frame will get the job done. Do not use solids, bad medicine, my son shot his buff this year with a 375 Ruger 300grain Swift bullet @2450 fps it broke the shoulder, near rib, heart, far rib and ended up under the skin on the far side with 92% weight retention.

04 November 2008, 05:38

pichon1

When it comes to shooting DG, it's experience that counts more than anything.

Listen to Ganyana.

04 November 2008, 06:01

David Hulme

quote:
Originally posted by Ganyana:

39 consecutive one shot kills on buff must mean I am doing something right.

Yeah, experience is certainly the key....

04 November 2008, 07:43

ozhunter

Taken a couple with 286 and 320 Woodleigh solids which worked well but as Ganyana stated they do only create minimal damage and yes Swifts are great.
Solids are a good idea in the thick stuff to minimize deflection .
North Fork Cup points would be another option if they come back on the market and if they feed in your rifle.

04 November 2008, 10:57

Saeed

There is absolutely no reason to use solids on buffalo instead of the current mono metal premium bullet available.

I have used solids in 1982 on buffalo, and ever since that time, have used nothing but mono metal bulets such Barnes X and our own Walterhog bullets.

Right now the only animal I would use a solid on is elephant.

04 November 2008, 11:44

jetdrvr

quote:
I have used the Northfork cup points and they work very well,

Yeah. Good luck finding some.

04 November 2008, 12:29

Will

quote:
Originally posted by vapodog:
quote:
Originally posted by Ganyana:
Dave

Poor idea. I have seen a buff take a .375 solid through the heart and put in a fair charge 20 minutes later. I use a 9,3 and used to use solids for backing up clients. they make very small holes! If you don't hit the spine, they are going to take a long time to have any effect. A flat nosed solid is better...but a good soft wins hands down every time. Look at Swift, TSX... Even nosler partitions at 9,3 velocities.

I asked a similar question some time ago.....the answer was as suggested here.....

Visit your local Swift A-Frame dealer for some A-Frames for your 9.3 X 62

Still true!

-------------------------------
Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.
---------------------------------------
and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR
_________________________

"Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped.
“Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped.

red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com
_________________________

If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go.

04 November 2008, 12:34

Will

quote:
Originally posted by ozhunter:
Taken a couple with 286 and 320 Woodleigh solids which worked well but as Ganyana stated they do only create minimal damage and yes Swifts are great.
Solids are a good idea in the thick stuff to minimize deflection .
North Fork Cup points would be another option if they come back on the market and if they feed in your rifle.

I thought bullets deflected, period. And it just doesn't make any sense that solids would deflect less than softs in a glancing hit on a limb. Now if you are shooting through trees then .....

04 November 2008, 19:27

AllenBosely

I was meaning Woodleigh 286 gn softs.

How do they compare?

Allen

04 November 2008, 22:02

Ganyana

Alan

Woodleigh 9,3 regular softs are too soft. They perform the same as the Norma Oryx - perfect for lion, but not buff. I have personally used both and made one shot kills, but looking at the wound chanel and bullets afterwards would not choose to do so again if I had the choice.

I have not tried the protected points.

04 November 2008, 23:03

Dave Bush

Allen:

I have tested both the 286 grain round nose and protected point Woodleighs at the range in my 9.3. Ganyana is right. The round nose bullets are pretty soft. At a muzzle velocity 2360 fps into wet phone books at 50 meters, they expanded all the way back to the base. Woodleigh's recommended impact velocity for these bullets is only 1800-2200 fps. On the other hand, the protected points held up really well. They have a recommended impact velocity of 1900-2600 fps. They are designed to be driven a little faster. I respect what Ganyana says but I would not hesitate to use the 286 grain protected points in my 9.3. However, I have switched over to the 250 grain TSX bullets. They are about the same length as the 286 grain Woodleigh protected points and in my tests, penetrated as well as the 300 grain Swifts. Take a look at JudgeGs post above.

Dave

05 November 2008, 10:57

ozhunter

quote:
Originally posted by AllenBosely:
I was meaning Woodleigh 286 gn softs.

How do they compare?

Allen

IMO, too soft for Buff but good for lighter game.

05 November 2008, 12:19

Andy

Dave,

Assume for a minute that the 9.3 and .375 shooting FMJ RN are equal.

A good freind of mine a few years ago shot a buffalo 7 times w a 375 FMJ (Hornady steel jacket which is a good bullet), and his PH twice w .458 and solids.

Only non lethal hit was in the hoof as the buff was rolling around and getting up on his feet again.

(They are a MOVING target).

His PH INSISTED he use solids on buffalo. (Despite the fact he had really good SP's).

Big mistake.

You are getting alot of good advice here.

Listen to Saeed. He has over 100 under his belt.

At 9.3 velocity almost anything works but the NF, Swift, TSX, Rhino, Nosler partition would be my choice in that order.

Andy