I haven't seen any discussion on this caliber is it too new? I hear they have a 465 H&H in the works, have they put that out yet?

I talked with an H&H rep at the SCI convention. He had specs on the two cartridges. If I remember correctly both were rimless and duplicated bulistics of the 416s such as Rigby, Rem etc. and rhe 465 duplicated the Lott or 450 Rigby but with a 480 gr. 468 diameter bullet.

Both good rounds but pretty repititious IMO..not needed...

The 400 H&H is like a 416 Remington but has a slopy shoulder and long neck like a 404 Jeffery. In fact if you took the belt off it and made it a little bit bigger in diamter you would think you were looking at a 404 Jeffery.

The 465 is the same sort of style but is based on the 378 Wby case.

I disagree with Ray on them not being needed or of use. Consider you just spent a bundle with Holland and Holland on a 300 H&H would you rather the second bolt action from Hollands to be a 416 Remington or a 400 H&H

Ditto for the 465 H&H.

Mike

Like Ray said...

I think they are more in the tradition of the proprietary rounds of old for the well heeled that are buying H&H rifles of today.

quote:

I think they are more in the tradition of the proprietary rounds of old for the well heeled that are buying H&H rifles of today.

And for said well-heeled, they are perfectly appropriate. For the rest of us . . .

Like Ray said.

If you search on 400 H&H and 465 H&H I expect you will find the articles I wrote on the cartridges for the African Hunter website. I first talked to Russell Wilkin the Holland Tech Director three years ago about the development. They continue to make haste slowly, although they are building rifles now. I visit with Russell each year at the SCI Convention.

Wolfgang Romey remains the single source of ammunition.

Both cartridges have been "released to the trade", so they are not proprietary.

I won't get excited until ammunition is available in the US.

jim

In fact the new H&H offerings are enough to put one to

It should feed nicely! Don't need it? Probably so. Didn't really need the .416 Remmy, we already had the fine ol' Rigby .416.
If you can afford to hunt Africa or Alaska the price of Rigby brass shouldn't bother you at all along with the small amount of extra powder.

It's of probably no interest to anyone here but had the 400 H&H being based on .416 bullets it would have been the dream cartridge for those who like to cast bullets and paper patch bullets....because of the very long neck and belted case.

With rimless cases the headspace can grow with each shot because of the primer blast but the pressure of the load is not enough to re fireform the case. The very long nneck would have meant all the grease grooves and gas check could have been contained within the neck.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Mike375:

I disagree with Ray on them not being needed or of use. Consider you just spent a bundle with Holland and Holland on a 300 H&H would you rather the second bolt action from Hollands to be a 416 Remington or a 400 H&H

Right, these calibers are just marketing hype. They work as well as but not better than several factory rounds that are already available. However, it may be the case that an H&H rifle in an H&H caliber is worth more than an H&H rifle in a non-H&H caliber. But it will take guys wealthier than Mike375 and myself to prove or disprove that point.

500,

I don't think it woud be just resale but also a case that a 300 H&H and 400 H&H would just be nicer than a 300 H&H and a 416 Remington.

Or what about 300 H&H, 375 H&H, 400 H&H and 465 H&H Vs 300 H&H, 375 H&H, 416 Remington and 460 Weatherby

Mike

500

I have a 300 H&H, 375 H&H and 465 H&H (flanged) and none of them are of Holland and Holland manufacture. I still like them.

500,

The detachable mounts for the H&H are about $5000US.

I don't know the current situation but a few years ago I was told by a very reliable source that the mounts were made in Australia and H&H paid $750AUS for them, about $600US.

Mike

If I had the money to buy the H&H or Purdey stuff I would even get the tweed cap

There is a wealthy shooter in Australia that has a few of their doubles through to the 700 H&H. All his cars have registration plates 500 Nitro, 600 Nitro and so on.

When he went over to collect his 700 Nitro he went to the shooting grounds and fired off a couple shots and then they gave him some 700 Nitro ammo for the rifle which added another $30000 to the bill

Mike

MIke,
Reread my post, I didn't say either was of no use, I only said they were repeticious meaning we already had simular calibers...I also said they were great rounds...and I agree with your post 100%........I wouldn't mind having either caliber in my gun cabinet..

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
500

I have a 300 H&H, 375 H&H and 465 H&H (flanged) and none of them are of Holland and Holland manufacture. I still like them.

How does the 465 HH flanged differ from the 500/465 of the old days?

Ray,

But you did say they were not needed. I think H&H does need them as they will sell more rifles.

The likes of us does not need them in fact either one would be a pain in the arse.

One thing that does suprise me is the 465 H&H being based on 378 Wby brass. I wonder if head dimensions are the same or if it is like saying the Rem Ultras are based on the 404 Jefferey case, which they are not.

I would be prepared to bet that no one has ever had a 416 Remington done at H&H or Purdey....possibly at Westley Richards but highly unlikely.

It would be like getting a 404 Jeffery done in a Weatherby Crown Custom with all the inlays etc.

Mike

Mike,

I think Ray was trying to say that the 400 HH and 456 HH provide no useful functionality that is not already provided by pre-existing factory cartridges. Of course, H&H might use the new cartridges for marketing leverage, but that is not functionality from the shooter's perspective.

500,

When you remove the H&H part of the equation and take them as stand alone calibres they are quite useless because of the bullet diameters.

The low pressure claim on the 400 H&H would be bullshit, that is, if it does the velocity claimed, which I think is about 2350-2380 with 400 grain bullets.

The case capacity would be be fair bit less than the 416 Remington and the bullet diameter is slightly smaller...411? or .408?

Apart from the H&H stuff, it will be interesting to see if the CZ USA 505 triggers brass or ammo from Federal and/or Norma.

I know the rifle is made in the US but does anyone know if the actions are converted to 505 by CZ and then sent to CZ USA or does CZ USA alos do the actions.

Mike

These cartridges are chum for a different ocean than we all swim in.

dart

.

Alf,

Read my postings again. I am one of the few supporters of them.

But if they are just put in some rifle then they are quite useless compared to similar calibres because of the bore size.

Mike

465H&H = 500/465. I have cases marked both ways.
CHEERS!
465H&H