Folks.....what caliber would you prefer for "all around" dangerous game hunting, including elephant?.500/.416 NE (3 1/4") or .470 NE?500/416 NE (3 1/4")470 NE

I have used the 500/416 on several trips, and have always been pleased with the preformance. A great all around DG cartridge for a double.

Now that Hornady is making 450/400 3" ammo, it would be my choice over the 500/416.

I hunt with a 450/400 3 1/4", and like it a lot, but if buying a new double it woulod be a 450/400 3", with a scope in QD mounts.

All other things the same - here that means energy, pick the bigger and heavier bullet.

JPK

I voted for the .470 specifically because of the last part of the survey - including elephant. It would also depend on the "dangerous game" in question and the circumstances. I think this question was too general, but that's my own humble opinion. And, I'm a big believer in using the rifle you're most confident in.

Well I've always thought that when I decided to buy a double, it would be a .470 but since I found out about the .500/.416 I'm not so sure. I like the fact that the .500/.416 is a little flatter shooting.....making it a good choice for a "one gun" safari where a few plains game would be hunted along with the dangerous game. A good scope with QD mounts, combined with the flatter trajectory, should make it better for 100-150 yard shots on plains game. I would think that it is still plenty capable of taking elephant, but I wanted to get your opinions on the matter.

The .500/.416 is the best all around choice. 400 gr @ 2350 fps makes it flat shooting and hard hitting. With solids the .416 can tackle Jumbo safely and reliably. The .500/.416 is a great addition to double rifle chamberings.

Eland Slayer, of the two you listed in your survey, I voted for the 470NE. I'm not fond of the 470NE either, but I consider it a better cartridge for double rifles than any of the .416 cartridges. in the .400 line up my choice would be the 450/400NE 3" over any of the high pressure .416 rounds for double rifles. The 500/416 has never seemed to get my blood flowing, for some reason, but i will say it makes more sense than any of the rimless, or belted rimless cartridges for use in a double.

The above is simply a personal choice, and not, in any way, asking anyone else to follow my lead!

By the way, how did your safari turn out, and what rifle did you use?

500/416 certainly beats a .470 for a PH. It has considerably better penetration on ele (.470 is marginal if angles are not perfect) and the .500/.416 is one hell of alot better on lion. On buff the .470 wins, but for all round use....

the .450/400 has not much better penetration than the .470 and is decidedly inferior on lion- it is not in the same class (but it is a nice round for a client to use and is better on ele and buff than a .375)

Good post Ganyana. Good points on penetration.

Pressure:

Reference: Any Shot You Want by A-Square

.450/.400 3"
CUP 36,284 psi Max Avg
Piezo 40,639 psi

.450/.400 3 1/4"
CUP 37,736
Piezo 42,816

.470 Nitro Express
CUP 34,833
Piezo 39,187

Reference: Krieghoff Website

.500/.416 3 1/4"
CUP 39,885
Piezo 44,962

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
By the way, how did your safari turn out, and what rifle did you use?

Well we didn't get to go on our safari. My dad's "boss" wouldn't let him go. We planned the safari and told the guy 2 years ahead of time that my dad would be off for 3 weeks for the hunt. 4 months before our hunt, he decided to tell my dad that he couldn't go and that if he did, he would be fired. My dad had 5 weeks of vacation saved up. So we canceled our hunt. His "boss" has since been fired from the company for some less than honest business practices.

This is the second safari we (as a family) have cancelled. I am beginning to think that maybe I'm not meant to hunt in Africa for whatever reason. I've already told my dad that I don't even want to book another trip, unless we are absolutley 100% sure we can go. The pain and disappointment of cancelling a hunting trip you've been planning for 2 years is too unbearable, and I never want to do it again.

A side on brain shot to the head of an elephant with a .470 or a .500/.416 is a dead elephant. If you hit the vitals does penetration really matter? Dead is dead. Both calibers have ample knockdown power to flatten Godzilla. Unless you've shot them both and cam make an assessment of comfort and shootability between the two, it's impossible to state which one is the "best or better."

In the end it all comes down to feel and which one you shoot better. I've taken buffalo with almost identical guns in both calibers, and even dabbled with a .577. The pure ballistics on paper, unfortunately, aren't always the true indicator of how effectively the rifle kills. It's the accuracy, fit and how well you shoot the rifle.

After experimenting with a handful of them, hands down the .470 is my double of choice.

Unfortunately as hunters sometimes, we toss around words such as penetration, energy and killing power, as if they're suppose to make up for poor shooting and bad shot placement. That's simply the wrong way to look at it.

Hornady versus Norma versus Federal Premium...versus .450/.400, .500/.416 and .470...yes they're all different. But in the end shouldn't it come down to accuracy, which one you flinch with less and how well you shoot the gun. Let's say on a 50-yard cape buff shot, after the bullet leaves the muzzle what really is most important? How hard it hits, the flat trajectory upon which it travelled or where it hits?

Moja

Penetration and energy are all important concepts in selecting a cartridge. It is not a perfect broadside shot world. The post question is "all around" dangerous game and the .500/.416, .450/.400, and .375 Flanged have the edge here. Maybe even throw in the 9.3x74

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
500/416 certainly beats a .470 for a PH. It has considerably better penetration on ele (.470 is marginal if angles are not perfect) and the .500/.416 is one hell of alot better on lion. On buff the .470 wins, but for all round use....

the .450/400 has not much better penetration than the .470 and is decidedly inferior on lion- it is not in the same class (but it is a nice round for a client to use and is better on ele and buff than a .375)

Although I generally agree with Ganyana on this issue, which is a good thing because he has loads more experience than me, I would qualify what he says. If your talking about factory ammunition in both calibers, the 500/416 has greater penetration because all factory ammo for the 470 as well as 450, and even the 458 Win. will only go from 2,000 to 2,080 fps. With hand loads these same calibers can be loaded to 2,150 to 2,200 hundred fps. That makes them a horse of a completely different color. At those velocities you can equal the penetration of the 500/416 with significantly more knock down power. This primarily pertains to elephant. For lion the 500/416 still wins although here penetration is not an issue and rapid expansion of a soft point is much better.

465H&H

Bullywyf--Good point on penetration and energy without a perfect broadside shot. That's especially key on buffalo.

Moja