South Africa--what's going on?

10 March 2018, 21:27

cal pappas

Gents:
Not much news about the land takeover issues and violence in South Africa.
What have you heard?
What do you know?
Have your plans changed?
Thanks,
Cal

10 March 2018, 21:56

A.Dahlgren

http://www.cphc-sa.co.za/wp-co...-Land-Issue-2018.pdf

10 March 2018, 22:22

fairgame

The attack on farmers is very alarming indeed but does not seem to make international news. There has been a staggering amount of murders, torture and the rape of women.

10 March 2018, 23:26

faisal

http://dscnewscenter.org/wp-co...-in-South-Africa.pdf

Most worrying!

10 March 2018, 23:38

stubbleduck47

The very fact that the new President accepts the possibility of “land expropriation without compensation” makes a mockery of any civilized rule of law.

10 March 2018, 23:39

faisal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClhBSGYwdP8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hcuM7PTZ6k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fn5TFLXq24

Zanu policies all over again! will they never learn!

10 March 2018, 23:42

crshelton

An outfitter friend, Chris Troskie, was in Texas recently but has now returned to Limpopo Province. Last I heard he was preparing for the coming hunting season.
I will send him an email and ask how things are.

10 March 2018, 23:55

dgr416

Blacks are killing.all the whites and getting away with it .I have a very good white police friend their they said over last 20 years 30000 white farmers have been killed bad no blacks have been charged .It will happen here too from politicians kissing instead of kicking their butts I was told not to go to South Africa I am trying to get loved ones out of there .My friends relatives who were white were killed by blacks it's totally dangerous there will be no going to all if Africa within ten years because of blacks they are reverting back to savages !will do the same here

11 March 2018, 05:08

Scriptus

A little perspective.

Pierre Assor
8 March at 16:01 · Krugersdorp, South Africa ·
Next time some one tells you the whites stole land
Here is your short history lesson : by D Lötter
In the 3000 years since the end of the Stone Age, the indigenous people of Africa could not manage to create an infrastructure, could not mine or produce export, could, in fact not succeed in building anything higher than one storey and could not write down anything as reference for future generations, because they could not manage to master the art of writing. In fact, when the first Europeans arrived on 6 April 1652 it was 1974 years after Ptolemy I built the magnificent library of Alexandria – and in Southern Africa the indigenous people still could do no more than a few rock paintings and a clay pot with patterns on it.
Today, this development, this contribution of the descendants of Europe has become a threat to the Black South African. He cannot compare. He has no contribution that can remotely compare to what the white man created and therefore he has to fall back on what primal instinct tells him to do: Destroy that which is a threat to you!
It is against this background that the white South African is demonised as a slaver and murderer who stole land. Let us put this in perspective:
In the first place: The Europeans who came with Van Riebeeck had no intention to stay at the Cape. We can clearly determine this from the repeated application for transfer to Batavia or Amsterdam made by almost every Company servant. The few men who decided to make this their homeland, did so because they came to love the land.
They wanted to develop and grow here. And in the written evidence, left us by the men who did not intend to stay and therefore had no reason to lie, it is written down over and over again that the Europeans settled on uninhabited land. They exchanged land for cattle and money and traded with the nomadic indigenous people.
The Company decided to import slaves.
I emphasize import, because no indigenous person in this country was ever put into slavery! In actual fact, the slaves who were brought in from Madagascar and Batavia and Ceylon and East Africa were the ancestors of an entirely new group of people: the Coloured nation of South Africa who adopted the customs and culture of the European.
Ever wondered why they did not adopt the custom of Africa?
Because they were not exposed to it, that is why! Nobody at the Cape ever set eyes on a black person for 130 years before the first Trekboere met the Xhosa in the Valleys of the Amatola around 1770! These slaves also added to the bloodline of the European settlers, as did the French Hugenots of 1688 and the British Settlers of 1820. The White South African was a new nation, born in Africa. This nation called its language, Afrikaans, after Africa. This nation called itself after Africa – Afrikaners.
On the first of December 1834 slavery was abolished in the Cape Colony. This is two years before the start of the Great Trek. The white man in South Africa knew nothing of the existence of the Zulu, the Tswana, the Sotho, the Venda...and he was at war with the Xhosa. It is chronologically impossible that indigenous people could be held in slavery, if the so-called slave masters did not even know of their existence before the abolition of slavery.
Let us look at the "great" Shaka Zulu and the Zulu nation. Remember that the Europeans landed in South Africa in 1652. Shaka kaSenzaghakohona was born around 1787. He managed to unite, through force and murder and rampage a number of small tribes into the Zulu nation around 1819. Before that year, there WAS no Zulu people. A question of mathematics: The Zulu nation came into existence only 167 years after the arrival of Van Riebeeck. What logic can possibly argue that the Europeans took anything away from the Zulu-people?
So when did the black man establish himself in South Africa and how? The answer lies in the Mfecane: Mfecane (Zulu: [m̩fɛˈkǀaːne],[note 1] crushing), also known by the Sesotho name Difaqane (scattering, forced dispersal or forced migration[1]) or Lifaqane, was a period of widespread chaos and warfare among indigenous ethnic communities in southern Africa during the period between 1815 and about 1840.
As King Shaka created the militaristic Zulu Kingdom in the territory between the Tugela River and Pongola River, his forces caused a wave of warfare and disruption to sweep to other peoples. This was the prelude of the Mfecane, which spread from there. The movement of peoples caused many tribes to try to dominate those in new territories, leading to widespread warfare; consolidation of other groups, such as the Matabele, the Mfengu and the Makololo; and the creation of states such as the modern Lesotho.
Mfecane is used primarily to refer to the period when Mzilikazi, a king of the Matabele, dominated the Transvaal. During his reign, roughly from 1826 to 1836, he ordered widespread killings and devastation to remove all opposition. He reorganised the territory to establish the new Ndebele order. The death toll has never been satisfactorily determined, but the whole region became nearly depopulated. Normal estimates for the death toll range from 1 million to 2 million.
The black man established himself in this barren land now known as South Africa a full 174 years AFTER the white man. How dare you then call me a settler when you are nothing more? If I don't belong here, certainly neither do you.
Land stolen from the black man? No. The land occupied by the Boer-people was land that nobody lived on, for the pure and simple reason that the original people of South Africa were massacred and wiped out in a racist genocide by the ancestors of the current black population of South Africa. The very same thing that is now repeated with the white man. The white man has a full and legal and historical claim to his part of this country, including land. And the black man who disputes that is welcome to bring evidence of the contrary. Remember, popular liberal myth, propagandistic expressions and loud shouting and burning and looting to hide your own incapability is not evidence. It is barbarism.
The popular myth of "the end of colonialism" is a lie also. Colonialism in South Africa ended on 31 May 1961 when the country became a Republic. White minority rule was not colonialism, because the white South African belongs here – you cannot colonise your own country.
The entire uproar about white oppression and white guilt and white debt is based, exactly like the concept of the rainbow nation and its Africa-democracy, on one big lie. In Afrikaans, a language of Africa, we say: However swiftly the lie might travel, truth will catch up one day.
Black South Africa might as well realise that the time of the lie is running out. Your stereotyping of the white man and apartheid as the cause of everything, cannot hold much longer.
You cannot hide rotting meat under gift wrap for eternity.
Some time in the very near future you will have to own up and explain how you could hold a small minority of oppressed people responsible for the disaster that you have made of a country which has the potential of being a place of safety, a welcome and hospitable home, to all its children whether they be black, white, coloured on Indian.
The black man holds the key to the final destruction of what is left, or the final realisation that we have no other choice but to peacefully co-exist. The black South African can no longer avoid admitting that the destruction of the white South African necessarily means the destruction of everything and everyone left on the southern tip of Africa.

11 March 2018, 06:32

jdollar

Facts, facts, facts. Quit clouding the “original sin” issue with facts.

11 March 2018, 07:06

stubbleduck47

Scriptus....Thanks for a very interesting short version of the, roughly, last 600 years of South African history. Is there a generally accepted publication that presents this history in a more detailed fashion? For those of us who are only vaguely aware of such history it would be an interesting read.

11 March 2018, 07:27

LR3

Cal, good question but would take a long answer.

Land claims....parliamentary committee to hear views. Last law was thrown out by court for not going through the motions. Report back August for no compensation. Needs 2/3 vote to pass. Recent U.K. Paper said it's unfair 10% of population of whites own so much land but it used to be whites were 20%. Many leaving still. Brain drain. More game farms on market but few selling because of uncertainty. Land will go to government and then awarded or given to chiefs to run (EFF view)

370,000 murders since 1994 ANC take over, 70,000 whites. Both criminal and political.the latter increasing in Kwazulu Natal.

I still go but avoid crime areas. Going 3 weeks plus Botswana this year and BVC and Klasrie next year.

Cape Town water runs out in July unless major rain after 3 years of drought.

Rand strengthened with Ramaphosa but slipped again.

Color morph breeding Ponsi scheme collapsing.

International hunting, 60% USA, down from 16,000 to 6500

Good news? Maybe the black rising middle class has seen the problems Zuma caused???!

11 March 2018, 15:39

fulvio

Hang on a second .... were there not a bunch of individuals who ranted that all these claims of violence and murders in RSA was exaggerated?

11 March 2018, 16:11

BNagel

quote:
Originally posted by Scriptus:
A little perspective.

Pierre Assor

8 March at 16:01 · Krugersdorp, South Africa ·
Next time some one tells you the whites stole land

Here is your short history lesson : by D Lötter

In the 3000 years since the end of the Stone Age, the indigenous people of Africa could not manage to create an infrastructure, could not mine or produce export, could, in fact not succeed in building anything higher than one storey and could not write down anything as reference for future generations, because they could not manage to master the art of writing.

In fact, when the first Europeans arrived on 6 April 1652 it was 1974 years after Ptolemy I built the magnificent library of Alexandria – and in Southern Africa the indigenous people still could do no more than a few rock paintings and a clay pot with patterns on it.
Today, this development, this contribution of the descendants of Europe has become a threat to the Black South African. He cannot compare.

He has no contribution that can remotely compare to what the white man created and therefore he has to fall back on what primal instinct tells him to do: Destroy that which is a threat to you!

It is against this background that the white South African is demonised as a slaver and murderer who stole land. Let us put this in perspective:

In the first place: The Europeans who came with Van Riebeeck had no intention to stay at the Cape. We can clearly determine this from the repeated application for transfer to Batavia or Amsterdam made by almost every Company servant. The few men who decided to make this their homeland, did so because they came to love the land.

They wanted to develop and grow here. And in the written evidence, left us by the men who did not intend to stay and therefore had no reason to lie, it is written down over and over again that the Europeans settled on uninhabited land. They exchanged land for cattle and money and traded with the nomadic indigenous people.

The Company decided to import slaves.
I emphasize import, because no indigenous person in this country was ever put into slavery! In actual fact, the slaves who were brought in from Madagascar and Batavia and Ceylon and East Africa were the ancestors of an entirely new group of people: the Coloured nation of South Africa who adopted the customs and culture of the European.

Ever wondered why they did not adopt the custom of Africa?

Because they were not exposed to it, that is why! Nobody at the Cape ever set eyes on a black person for 130 years before the first Trekboere met the Xhosa in the Valleys of the Amatola around 1770! These slaves also added to the bloodline of the European settlers, as did the French Hugenots of 1688 and the British Settlers of 1820. The White South African was a new nation, born in Africa. This nation called its language, Afrikaans, after Africa. This nation called itself after Africa – Afrikaners.

On the first of December 1834 slavery was abolished in the Cape Colony. This is two years before the start of the Great Trek. The white man in South Africa knew nothing of the existence of the Zulu, the Tswana, the Sotho, the Venda...and he was at war with the Xhosa.

It is chronologically impossible that indigenous people could be held in slavery, if the so-called slave masters did not even know of their existence before the abolition of slavery.

Let us look at the "great" Shaka Zulu and the Zulu nation. Remember that the Europeans landed in South Africa in 1652. Shaka kaSenzaghakohona was born around 1787. He managed to unite, through force and murder and rampage a number of small tribes into the Zulu nation around 1819. Before that year, there WAS no Zulu people. A question of mathematics: The Zulu nation came into existence only 167 years after the arrival of Van Riebeeck. What logic can possibly argue that the Europeans took anything away from the Zulu-people?

So when did the black man establish himself in South Africa and how? The answer lies in the Mfecane: Mfecane (Zulu: [m̩fɛˈkǀaːne],[note 1] crushing), also known by the Sesotho name Difaqane (scattering, forced dispersal or forced migration[1]) or Lifaqane, was a period of widespread chaos and warfare among indigenous ethnic communities in southern Africa during the period between 1815 and about 1840.

As King Shaka created the militaristic Zulu Kingdom in the territory between the Tugela River and Pongola River, his forces caused a wave of warfare and disruption to sweep to other peoples. This was the prelude of the Mfecane, which spread from there. The movement of peoples caused many tribes to try to dominate those in new territories, leading to widespread warfare; consolidation of other groups, such as the Matabele, the Mfengu and the Makololo; and the creation of states such as the modern Lesotho.

Mfecane is used primarily to refer to the period when Mzilikazi, a king of the Matabele, dominated the Transvaal. During his reign, roughly from 1826 to 1836, he ordered widespread killings and devastation to remove all opposition. He reorganised the territory to establish the new Ndebele order. The death toll has never been satisfactorily determined, but the whole region became nearly depopulated. Normal estimates for the death toll range from 1 million to 2 million.

The black man established himself in this barren land now known as South Africa a full 174 years AFTER the white man. How dare you then call me a settler when you are nothing more? If I don't belong here, certainly neither do you.

Land stolen from the black man? No. The land occupied by the Boer-people was land that nobody lived on, for the pure and simple reason that the original people of South Africa were massacred and wiped out in a racist genocide by the ancestors of the current black population of South Africa. The very same thing that is now repeated with the white man. The white man has a full and legal and historical claim to his part of this country, including land. And the black man who disputes that is welcome to bring evidence of the contrary

Remember, popular liberal myth, propagandistic expressions and loud shouting and burning and looting to hide your own incapability is not evidence. It is barbarism.

The popular myth of "the end of colonialism" is a lie also. Colonialism in South Africa ended on 31 May 1961 when the country became a Republic. White minority rule was not colonialism, because the white South African belongs here – you cannot colonise your own country.

The entire uproar about white oppression and white guilt and white debt is based, exactly like the concept of the rainbow nation and its Africa-democracy, on one big lie. In Afrikaans, a language of Africa, we say: However swiftly the lie might travel, truth will catch up one day.

Black South Africa might as well realise that the time of the lie is running out. Your stereotyping of the white man and apartheid as the cause of everything, cannot hold much longer. You cannot hide rotting meat under gift wrap for eternity.

Some time in the very near future you will have to own up and explain how you could hold a small minority of oppressed people responsible for the disaster that you have made of a country which has the potential of being a place of safety, a welcome and hospitable home, to all its children whether they be black, white, coloured on Indian.

The black man holds the key to the final destruction of what is left, or the final realisation that we have no other choice but to peacefully co-exist. The black South African can no longer avoid admitting that the destruction of the white South African necessarily means the destruction of everything and everyone left on the southern tip of Africa.

Now I can read it -- and thanks!!

13 March 2018, 17:09

Big Wonderful Wyoming

Wife saw a program from about a month ago on youtube about white squatter camps, and how white babies have no place to go.

How do we adopt?

We'll take as many as you can send.

Prefer girls, (because I have four daughters, and 3 still at home), but I wouldn't break up siblings.

13 March 2018, 19:36

Limpopo Big Game Safaris

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfjnIfE02l4

12 December 2021, 10:44

Victor Watson

The land expropriation bill failed to pass in parliament this week and was scrapped. Often we read only the bad news out of South Africa and the good news isn't as newsworthy and goes unreported. Cheap politicking that failed due to common sense and a strong judicial system and constitution.

Many people assumed that land expropriation without compensation was already happening. South Africa still has strong property rights, if not the strongest in Africa

13 December 2021, 01:56

drongo

quote:
Originally posted by stubbleduck47:
The very fact that the new President accepts the possibility of “land expropriation without compensation” makes a mockery of any civilized rule of law.

Only fools invest in countries that don’t respect property rights. These African countries are doomed to perpetual poverty.

13 December 2021, 04:02

Russ Gould

In a word, chaos. A once great country is stumbling toward the third world morass.

13 December 2021, 06:19

Saeed

quote:
Originally posted by Victor Watson:
The land expropriation bill failed to pass in parliament this week and was scrapped. Often we read only the bad news out of South Africa and the good news isn't as newsworthy and goes unreported. Cheap politicking that failed due to common sense and a strong judicial system and constitution.

Many people assumed that land expropriation without compensation was already happening. South Africa still has strong property rights, if not the strongest in Africa

South Africa is the only country that I have more friends who have been victims of crimes than any other country in the world.

These are visiting people.

One was shot at home by home invaders, one was robbed in a supposedly secure compound.

Others have been robbed, either close to where they lived, or elsewhere.

One of the ultimate desires of any visiting guest is SAFETY.

South Africa has hardly any of it.

Last time I went to South Africa we landed at Johannesburg, cleared immigration, flew out to a private game reserve.

While we were there, rhinos on that reserve were killed by poachers.

They closed that part, so the tourists do not see it.

We heard it all on the radio.

We asked if we could go see the location, and they kindly allowed us to go there.

We found the place, blood everywhere, and no sign of the poachers.

Never heard that they were caught.

I tend to agree with Russ.

A great country, fantastic people, ruined by crimes.!

13 December 2021, 20:05

Victor Watson

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
quote:
Originally posted by Victor Watson:
The land expropriation bill failed to pass in parliament this week and was scrapped. Often we read only the bad news out of South Africa and the good news isn't as newsworthy and goes unreported. Cheap politicking that failed due to common sense and a strong judicial system and constitution.

Many people assumed that land expropriation without compensation was already happening. South Africa still has strong property rights, if not the strongest in Africa

South Africa is the only country that I have more friends who have been victims of crimes than any other country in the world.

These are visiting people.

One was shot at home by home invaders, one was robbed in a supposedly secure compound.

Others have been robbed, either close to where they lived, or elsewhere.

One of the ultimate desires of any visiting guest is SAFETY.

South Africa has hardly any of it.

Last time I went to South Africa we landed at Johannesburg, cleared immigration, flew out to a private game reserve.

While we were there, rhinos on that reserve were killed by poachers.

They closed that part, so the tourists do not see it.

We heard it all on the radio.

We asked if we could go see the location, and they kindly allowed us to go there.

We found the place, blood everywhere, and no sign of the poachers.

Never heard that they were caught.

I tend to agree with Russ.

A great country, fantastic people, ruined by crimes.!

But no land expropriation

And South Africa is home to 80% of the World's rhino population. Rhino poaching is not exclusively an SA problem, the problem is historically much worse in other countries, else they'd have more rhinos...no?

13 December 2021, 20:30

Saeed

Ultimately a foreign visitor could not care less about land claims.

He is more interested in being SAFE!

Safe from crimes.

13 December 2021, 21:21

Atkinson

Its nothing new, been going on, off and on, for years in So. Africa, and other African countries, its the nature of the beast, and whos turn in the barrel..

13 December 2021, 22:10

Victor Watson

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
Ultimately a foreign visitor could not care less about land claims.

He is more interested in being SAFE!

Safe from crimes.

Still the most visited country in Africa by a country mile though…

Crime is everywhere in Africa, you’re fooling yourself if you think crime isn’t a problem everywhere in Africa.

13 December 2021, 22:18

crane

Stubble- You might try John Reader's "Africa: A Biography of the Continent". Might be the gold standard in depth of content.

13 December 2021, 22:20

crane

Another good one is "Kill the Boer", by Ernst Roets.

13 December 2021, 22:22

Victor Watson

As a current example

South Africa neighbours two of the poorest countries on the planet- Zim and Mozambique. We have the highest Covid rates in Africa. Is that actually so or are we just better at reporting it?

Anyway, you have your opinion. You’ve stated it. Crime is a problem in SA, that’s a reality but it’s a reality everywhere in Africa and everywhere where’s there’s poverty and criminal opportunity.

13 December 2021, 23:12

Brian Canada

Victor,

Good news that the bill has failed to pass.

Also, I my opinion, Saeed and some others here are very quick to find fault. Brian

14 December 2021, 01:04

bentaframe

James Michner: The Covenant, Good book, written before Journalistic liberalism had fully developed.

14 December 2021, 01:35

Russ Gould

EWC is not done. The ANC minister for blah blah said "we will just do it another way by passing laws .. we have the majority".

These people want the mines, banks, factories not just the farms. They will do whatever they can to get their hands on everything of value. Half of them are ideologues, the other half are thieves.

14 December 2021, 04:02

JTEX

quote:
Originally posted by Russ Gould:
EWC is not done. The ANC minister for blah blah said "we will just do it another way by passing laws .. we have the majority".

These people want the mines, banks, factories not just the farms. They will do whatever they can to get their hands on everything of value. Half of them are ideologues, the other half are thieves.

You should have said quarters......half are useful idiots......

We are raising them by the bucket ful in the states......we call them democrats.....

.

18 December 2021, 04:18

Russ Gould

Here is an eye-opening snapshot of the powers that be in RSA

Official government proceedings regarding land reform/expropriation without compensation

18 December 2021, 07:36

Saeed

quote:
Originally posted by Russ Gould:
Here is an eye-opening snapshot of the powers that be in RSA

Official government proceedings regarding land reform/expropriation without compensation

Re-write history again.

To benefit one section of the population.

Like BLM in America!

18 December 2021, 09:52

Victor Watson

quote:
Originally posted by Russ Gould:
EWC is not done. The ANC minister for blah blah said "we will just do it another way by passing laws .. we have the majority".

These people want the mines, banks, factories not just the farms. They will do whatever they can to get their hands on everything of value. Half of them are ideologues, the other half are thieves.

Maybe not, but it’s not a new fight. Been going on here for 200 years or more.

Honestly your obsession with SA and your constant highlighting of its problems is troubling and I question whether you really want the best result in the end.

18 December 2021, 15:43

Saeed

quote:
Originally posted by Victor Watson:
quote:
Originally posted by Russ Gould:
EWC is not done. The ANC minister for blah blah said "we will just do it another way by passing laws .. we have the majority".

These people want the mines, banks, factories not just the farms. They will do whatever they can to get their hands on everything of value. Half of them are ideologues, the other half are thieves.

Maybe not, but it’s not a new fight. Been going on here for 200 years or more.

Honestly your obsession with SA and your constant highlighting of its problems is troubling and I question whether you really want the best result in the end.

Not sure this statement is true.

I don’t know anyone who wishes to see what is going in South Africa continue.

Some of you there seem to think visitors should just put up with it.

Visitors have an enormous choice of what country to visit, and you keep telling us crimes are everywhere.

That is absolutely NOT true.

May be Nigeria, but I have no wish to visit Nigeria.

South Africa’s crime wave is actually out of hand.

From the minute you arrive at Johannesburg airport your luggage is pilfered!

And it gets worse every day you are there.

Non of us like to see this.

It is up to you to convince your government to deal with it.

My impression is they don’t care.

Take the airport problem!

How the hell can THAT not be controlled!?

18 December 2021, 17:15

Bill/Oregon

Doug, my friend, thank you for your post putting things into perspective.
Geseënde Kersfees!

18 December 2021, 17:24

fulvio

South Africa: Yesterday
New South Africa: Tomorrow

"Yesterday is dead and gone, and Tomorrow's out of sight"

18 December 2021, 18:26

larryshores

When we last visited the RSA, we had armed body guards take us to Sun City. Interestingly , the armed body guards had another armed person watch the vehicle while we were being retrieved .

At Sun City, the workers seemed to be keenly aware of the issues in Johannesburg. They pretty much were pleading with us to let our friends and acquaintances know that Sun City was not like Johannesburg. They were totally aware of the negative impact the violence had on tourism.

Little doubt the RSA was once a GREAT country . Since about 1994, there has been massive regression . It is simply not the same country .

18 December 2021, 20:22

Saeed

Won’t be long before it becomes like Nigeria!

19 December 2021, 01:08

Use Enough Gun

quote:
When we last visited the RSA, we had armed body guards

It's been like that for quite a while. (And now much worse, of course). We used armed body guards while transiting and leaving the Jo'burg parking garage on one of my trips there in 2003, and have done so since from time to time.