The Accurate Reloading Forums
New vs. Old AA Hulls

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06 September 2016, 18:28
Lawdog
New vs. Old AA Hulls
I have loaded the original red AA hulls for years. I now have a stock of the new AA hulls. Do they use the same recipes for reloading?


"Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself."
Mark Twain
06 September 2016, 23:33
Emory
Think you are going to find you need to get the HS wads and also tweak powder volumes and crimping adjustments with the new shells.

I had quite a few old 28 AA wads still around when I shifted to the new HS hulls and had enough reloading problems trying to use them up that I finally just threw them out. I personally prefer Claybuster HS wads to the Winchesters...

Good hunting,
06 September 2016, 23:46
Lawdog
Thank you. i should have been more specific I'm dealing with 12 gauge hulls. In 28 gauge AA hulls have always been a problem for me. I now load only Remington hulls.


"Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself."
Mark Twain
07 September 2016, 02:16
crbutler
In 12 ga, the old recipes are safe in the new hulls... But thy do not necessarily fit right, as the cup of the wad tends to catch on the basewad.

The HS wads are supposed to interchange with their corresponding regular wad, again ballistically.

Long and short, substituting these components is safe, but the shells sometimes look funny, and the HS hulls don't crimp as nicely, period.
07 September 2016, 04:51
Samuel_Hoggson
What crbutler said concerning wad skirts and the polyformed AA hull's basewad. If you look at the revised OEM Win wads you'll note they're apt to be slightly shorter than the old-style version and some clones. That said, I'm usually able to get old-style wads to work satisfactorily. It helps if you can adjust payload as needed.

The other adjustment involves crimp closure at center. If your press was set right for comp formed AAs you will probably note a small hole in the center of the crimp when using new 12 ga hulls. Solution is to lower the precrimp (MEC) so to relocate the shoulder to a slightly lower position. This action displaces plastic allowing for complete closure at the crimp station.

I don't like the new HS 12 and 20 ga hulls. OTOH, the HS are best options in both .410 and 28.
07 September 2016, 08:37
pennfly
Clay buster makes a wad with a shorter cushion section for this very problem. Works great.
13 September 2016, 19:07
buffybr
Being an avid Trap and Skeet shooter for 40+ years, I've loaded over 200,000 old style AA hulls. When the new HS hulls came out they wouldn't load correctly in my Hornaday 366 loader as the top of the base inside the new hulls is deeper than the old style hulls, so without re-adjusting the primer seated, the primers will not fully seat in my 366 loader. So although it was hard not to pick up the new once fired HS hulls off the ground, I continued to only load the old style AA hulls.

Then last year one of my shooting buddies gave me a large garbage bag full of once fired HS hulls. He also told me that Hornaday now makes a spring loaded primer seating rod for their 366 loader. I bought one of those spring loaded primer seaters, and I have since loaded one bag shy of 5,000 Claybuster 3/4 Oz 12 gauge wads loading a mix of new and old AA hulls, all with excellent results.


NRA Endowment Life Member
06 October 2016, 10:36
Ray B
When Winchester changed from one piece AA hulls I changed to Federal Gold Medals.
06 October 2016, 21:59
swampshooter
Winchester bean counters figured out a cheaper way to make AA hulls. They are now inferior to other target hulls on the market. Even to the point of being dangerous. When the base wad becomes loose it can be sucked up into the barrel causing a catastrophic occurance when the next round is fired.


velocity is like a new car, always losing value.
BC is like diamonds, holding value forever.
10 October 2016, 06:43
pennfly
Really?
17 October 2016, 10:04
eagle27
Sad to see the WW compression formed case disappear. I've loaded these countless times for clay target and duck shooting, only retiring them to scrap when the case mouth became so split that the crimp was starting to get bad.
The odd tight to chamber cartridge didn't make any difference to use in my O/U and I never noticed a fall off in performance despite the less than perfect crimp and never had loose primer pockets or a case come apart.

Quite a lot of these once fired HS cases are come up for sale on our Trade site but I wouldn't bother loading them now.
20 October 2016, 00:35
pennfly
I shoot only AA's, and have no trouble when using the DownRange wads. Has anyone ever heard a documented case of the base wad separating?
20 October 2016, 19:05
Customstox
pennfy, there were a number of "documented" cases. Of course it involved a brother of someone who overheard of the situation happening to a neighbor and the story was told in a restuarant. Or was it a fast food drive thru?


Chic Worthing
"Life is Too Short To Hunt With An Ugly Gun"
http://webpages.charter.net/cworthing/
21 October 2016, 04:17
buffybr
quote:
Originally posted by swampshooter:
Winchester bean counters figured out a cheaper way to make AA hulls. They are now inferior to other target hulls on the market. Even to the point of being dangerous. When the base wad becomes loose it can be sucked up into the barrel causing a catastrophic occurance when the next round is fired.


Since my previous post, I am now into my second case of 5,000 Claybuster CB0175-12 wads that I've loaded and shot through the new Win HS hulls. I have not had, nor have I heard from my shooting friends who have also shot thousands of Win HS hulls, of a single hull where the base wad became loose and was "sucked up into the barrel."

In response to this thread, I just cut open a Win HS hull that I had shot and reloaded +/- 10 times. There was a 3/8" split in the side of the hull, just ahead of the end of the base wad.

I had to use a knife blade to separate the base wad from the outside of the case, then I held the brass base of the case in channel lock pliers, and attempted to pull out the base wad with another set of pliers. The portion of the base wad that was in the jaws of the pliers tore out, but the rest of the base was would not come loose from the base of the case.

It is my conclusion that the Myth that "the base wad becomes loose [and] can be sucked up into the barrel" is BUSTED!


NRA Endowment Life Member
19 April 2017, 03:46
Jerry Eden
You can use the "old style" wads in the 12 and 20 gauge HS. The 28 and 410 require the "new" hs wad. My understanding about the change from AA to HS hulls, and this from an industry person, is because the old equipment was wore out and would cost to much to repair. One caveot here is, your machine may require some adjusting as was mentioned before


NRA Benefactor Life Member
19 April 2017, 05:02
df06
have loaded roughly 15,000 of the new AAHS 12 ga hulls with zero issues. My load is Win 209, either clays or red dot, CB1118 wad and 1 1/8 ounces of shot.
I generally load these hulls about five times and toss them. I have a lifetime supply of them.


NRA Patron member
14 June 2017, 21:50
ZekeShikar
For those who want a personal testimonial:

I had an HS base separate and was luckily caught in the crimp before it actually went into my barrel.

I shoot a semi-auto for sporting clays and would not have noticed had it lodged in the barrel between shots.

I won't use them in MY guns but you're welcome to use them in YOURS.

Zeke
28 April 2018, 04:39
ZekeShikar
quote:
Originally posted by swampshooter:
Winchester bean counters figured out a cheaper way to make AA hulls. They are now inferior to other target hulls on the market. Even to the point of being dangerous. When the base wad becomes loose it can be sucked up into the barrel causing a catastrophic occurance when the next round is fired.


Yes!!! what he said^^^^

Zeke
16 July 2019, 22:04
df06
quote:
Originally posted by ZekeShikar:
For those who want a personal testimonial:

I had an HS base separate and was luckily caught in the crimp before it actually went into my barrel.

I shoot a semi-auto for sporting clays and would not have noticed had it lodged in the barrel between shots.

I won't use them in MY guns but you're welcome to use them in YOURS.

Zeke


That’s part of the reason I load them five times or so and toss them. I’m assuming that reduces the risk of base wad separation.


NRA Patron member
17 July 2019, 04:00
BuffHunter63
I threw away 4 good sized boxes of once fired AA hulls about 10 years ago (I gave up Skeet) and none of my friends wanted them.

I wish I hadn’t.

BH63


Hunting buff is better than sex!
26 July 2019, 06:17
Alec Torres
I compulsively saved almost all the old style Win CF hulls I shot in 12, 16 and 20. They last a long time and are superior to the new AA hulls in every way that matters.