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7/8 oz 12 vs. 20
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Picture of thornell
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I was at the skeet range today and was chatting with a fellow shooter. We were talking about reloading when he asked me if there would any noticable difference in 12 and 20 gauge 7/8oz. loads. I wasn't sure so I am asking you all.

If you were shooting a 12 and 20 with 7/8oz loads, same barrel length, and same choke would there be a difference?
 
Posts: 705 | Location: MIDDLE TENNESSEE | Registered: 25 June 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by thornell:
I was at the skeet range today and was chatting with a fellow shooter. We were talking about reloading when he asked me if there would any noticable difference in 12 and 20 gauge 7/8oz. loads. I wasn't sure so I am asking you all.

If you were shooting a 12 and 20 with 7/8oz loads, same barrel length, and same choke would there be a difference?

Good question & probably hard to answer. I'd say the shot string may be a little shorter with the 12 & the 20 might have a little smaller pattern with the same constriction. If you have the constriction in terms of percentage of bore diameter, it may not.




"You can lead a horticulture, ... but you can't make 'er think" Florida Gardener
 
Posts: 808 | Location: N. FL | Registered: 21 September 2003Reply With Quote
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All things equal, the 12 should pattern slightly better. Doubt if I would ever be able to tell the difference..... Dutch.


Life's too short to hunt with an ugly dog.
 
Posts: 4564 | Location: Idaho Falls, ID, USA | Registered: 21 September 2000Reply With Quote
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Fellas, I think this weekend I will pattern a few loads on paper and see what I come up with. I will try it at 25 and 50 yards. I am with you brayhaven, I think the shot stream in the 20ga. will be longer, but like Dutch has mentioned it may not be a noticable difference. Thanks guys.
 
Posts: 705 | Location: MIDDLE TENNESSEE | Registered: 25 June 2005Reply With Quote
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Barrel length shouldn't have much of an effect on it.

Choke constriction definitely will.

I think you'll see better patterns with the 12 gauge load and 7/8 oz out to 50 yards may be a bit too far.

Since you're testing it for skeet, I would probably stay in the 20-30 yard range.


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I'll never be able to give back to this forum all that I've learned from it. But I do want to thank those of you that have helped me out over the years.
 
Posts: 167 | Location: McHenry, IL | Registered: 16 February 2005Reply With Quote
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I prefer the 20 for 7/8 oz loads. Mainly because a smaller charge will give you the pressures you need for velocity. You can adjust your choke for any pattern you want. Especially for skeet ranges. I always shot the 20 & 28 ga better than I did the 12 at skeet. Mainly because of the recoil, I guess. I Once broke 386 straight (regulation skeet) targets with the 28 and have only shot 2 100's with the 12 that I remember. At longer ranges, the 12 definitely has the edge but not necessarily with 7/8 oz loads, IMO. In sporting clays, the 12 is usually better, but a lot of folks are shooting 20's these days too.




"You can lead a horticulture, ... but you can't make 'er think" Florida Gardener
 
Posts: 808 | Location: N. FL | Registered: 21 September 2003Reply With Quote
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Originally posted by brayhaven:
Mainly because a smaller charge will give you the pressures you need for velocity.


Please explain........ I'm not following at all. Dutch.


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Posts: 4564 | Location: Idaho Falls, ID, USA | Registered: 21 September 2000Reply With Quote
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I doubt that patterning 2 guns will tell you much except which gun handles the shot size and loads you are shooting the best. It is not a big enough sample to make across the board statements but will be interesting none the less.

The shot string will be shorter in the 12 but the powders used in the 20 are more progressive, giving the 20 Ga shot column a gentler launch, very possibly evening out the score between the two different gauges to some extent.

Square shot charges seem to contribute to high quality patterns. A square shot column is one in which the height equals the bore diameter of the gauge being used, and the 7/8 oz 20 Ga charge is a square charge I believe, so that may be a factor in the 20's 7/8 charge popularity that you have been seeing.

Please let us know what you find out. Perhaps some other shooters on this board will join in so we can get a bigger sampling to get a more statistically valid result. Thanks very much for your time and effort, Rusty.
 
Posts: 280 | Location: Fresno, California | Registered: 27 August 2005Reply With Quote
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I've been shooting 7/8 oz 12 ga loads for skeet and 16 yd trap for at about 15 years. When I was shooting registered skeet, my 12 ga and 20 ga averages were about the same, both in class AA.

Although not in competition, but I have used my 7/8 oz 12 ga loads on the 27 yd line in trap with adequate results.

Bottom line: I haven't seen any difference in the performance between 7/8 oz 12 ga or 7/8 oz 20 ga loads.


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Posts: 1631 | Location: Boz Angeles, MT | Registered: 14 February 2006Reply With Quote
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Picture of SShooterZ
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quote:
Originally posted by Dutch:
Please explain........ I'm not following at all. Dutch.


I think he means that equal weight in the 20 and the 12, you will typically need LESS powder in the 20 to propel them at the same velocity.

IE. 14 grains if International Clays for 7/8 oz in 20 gauage at 1200 fps vs. 16 grains of International Clays for 7/8 oz in 12 gauge for 1200 fps.

quote:
Originally posted by Rusty Hook:
I doubt that patterning 2 guns will tell you much except which gun handles the shot size and loads you are shooting the best. It is not a big enough sample to make across the board statements but will be interesting none the less.

The shot string will be shorter in the 12 but the powders used in the 20 are more progressive, giving the 20 Ga shot column a gentler launch, very possibly evening out the score between the two different gauges to some extent.


Patterning will tell you a lot for the gun you're using. Since you couldn't compare the two loads in the same gun anyway, you could definitely find out which of the two has the more evenly distributed shot pattern.

Can you explain the 20 gauge powders being more progressive thought? They're usually SLOWER burning to keep pressures down but the pressure is typically where you need to do the comparison. It doesn't have anything do to with the velocity of the load leaving if you're loading for say, 1200 fps.


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I'll never be able to give back to this forum all that I've learned from it. But I do want to thank those of you that have helped me out over the years.
 
Posts: 167 | Location: McHenry, IL | Registered: 16 February 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Rusty Hook:
I doubt that patterning 2 guns will tell you much except which gun handles the shot size and loads you are shooting the best. It is not a big enough sample to make across the board statements but will be interesting none the less.


I was going to say that....

quote:
The shot string will be shorter in the 12 but the powders used in the 20 are more progressive, giving the 20 Ga shot column a gentler launch, very possibly evening out the score between the two different gauges to some extent.


Yes. On the other hand, the shot column of the 12 will be shorter, and therefore there will be less pressure on the bottom pellets, possibly deforming them less. Also, less pellets will be directly effected by the choke, theoretically giving more advantage to the 12.

Of course, anyone trying to design and execute an experiment to determine the magnitude of any of these effects with meaningful statistical levels of confidence has my sympathies..... Wink Dutch.


Life's too short to hunt with an ugly dog.
 
Posts: 4564 | Location: Idaho Falls, ID, USA | Registered: 21 September 2000Reply With Quote
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Picture of Snipe Hunter
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If you were shooting a 12 and 20 with 7/8oz loads, same barrel length, and same choke would there be a difference?


No, not that you would be able to distinguish. A load that size is pretty efficient in a twenty gauge and you won't improve on it as much in a larger bore as you would a heavier load. Technically, on paper the slightest of edges would go to the twelve. In actual shooting I doubt if the difference is measurable with a 7/8 ounce payload. At one ounce it will be more realistic and at 1 1/8 ounce the larger bore would be considerably more effective.


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But I've never heard of beast or bird to excel the twisting snipe.
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Posts: 83 | Location: Out in some godforsaken marsh | Registered: 21 March 2006Reply With Quote
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