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12 gauge subsonic loads
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Can someone catch me up to speed on why there isn't more data on subsonic shotshell loads? 1100fps seems to be the starting charge for a lot of loads.

Does the extra ~200fps (~1050 vs ~1250fps) really make that much difference in the field?

For those that have used subsonic shotshell loads is the report noticeably quieter?

Are there any powders that would work better for this application?

Thanks!
 
Posts: 36 | Registered: 04 May 2004Reply With Quote
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I don't know the answer. But I wonder at what point in low velocity that wads getting stuck in the barrel becomes an issue.
The next shot would be ugly.


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Posts: 2194 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: 08 December 2006Reply With Quote
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For the type of game hunted with shotguns, the relatively low intensity of report (compared to rifle reports) of the shotshell does not seem to be an issue. Similar to competition shooting with shotguns where nearby shooters and bystanders wear hearing protection while others close by off the range are not bothered by the shotgun reports. Entirely different scenario with rifle shots on a range where even if a reasonable distance away the report is disturbing.

Because shotgunning is relatively close range stuff differences in velocity do have greater impact on performance and because we cannot control when the shot is taken on game the shot must penetrate from a range of angles to kill i.e. we cannot 'wait' until the bird is front on or rabbit is side on to get a clean breast/chest shot, have to take them as they come.

BTW a piece of useless information no doubt, I think it was the CIA back in the Vietnam war era who experimented with silent shotshells. These used a rubber tube, a bit like an inverted rubber glove finger, that was fixed to the top of the shell with the powder and over powder wad contained underneath the rubber tube in the case with the shot in the rubber tube.
On firing the rubber tube inverted blowing the shot out of the case and barrel but containing the powder 'explosion' inside the rubber and case so there was no or only a very muffled noise.

The story goes that these cartridges were designed for close range execution of personnel or guards etc., where even a silenced pistol would have too much noise.
 
Posts: 2854 | Location: Nelson, New Zealand | Registered: 03 August 2009Reply With Quote
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Thank you both for the help and input.

The issue with a stuck wad is something to worry about. I will be doing load development with a break action so I should be able to monitor it a bit easier.

If I remember correctly the silent shotgun shells were an all brass case. Teleshot or something like that.

I would assume by taking a step up in shotsize would also help on less than idea target angles if the velocity was reduced.
 
Posts: 36 | Registered: 04 May 2004Reply With Quote
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They are easy some red dot enough shot to fill the cup crimp and shoot. 8 grs of red dot and 1 1/8 of shot are really quite any of the 1100fps loads should work also.

5 grs out of a 36 inch barrel one can hardly hear them well kill things out to 25 yards
 
Posts: 16031 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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p dog shooter,

I would assume if the burn rate is similar to Red Dot I should be able to work up a similar load?

Can you tell me more about the lighter loads in the field and how they perform?
 
Posts: 36 | Registered: 04 May 2004Reply With Quote
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Yes I found Herco to be to slow the trick is to make sure you have a good solid crimp I just add more shot.

I mainly loaded them for others to use in built up areas where noise of a shot could cause trouble.

I found a load of 7.5s even at 600fps kills rabbits out to 25 yards. The leed on flying or running game is a bit more then regular loads.

Just load them up tell you get the performance you want above 10grs they start to get louder.

I would start at 8grs and see what that does for you.
 
Posts: 16031 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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The only thing I would offer here is to tread lightly. There has to be enough "horsepower" to push the shot column and wad past the choke in the end of the barrel, or bad things are going to happen.

And I don't know where the starting point is to ensure that does not happen. Maybe someone else does, but I would think it happened after ruining a few shotgun barrels. They are paper thin...
 
Posts: 4748 | Location: TX | Registered: 01 April 2005Reply With Quote
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The lowest I went was 5grs of red dot no trouble with the loads staying in the barrel
 
Posts: 16031 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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Thank you all for the replies!

I will start with a light target loads and work my way down slowly.

Red Dog or similar looks to be a good start.
 
Posts: 36 | Registered: 04 May 2004Reply With Quote
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Offhand I don't recall the load, but we used Unique with 1 3/8 oz shot for about 1100 fps load. Deadly on pheasants. Slower lead loads pattern tighter, generally speaking.


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Posts: 17099 | Location: Texas USA | Registered: 07 May 2001Reply With Quote
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Could VV N310 be substituted for some of the faster powders? Nitro 100, Tightwad, Clays, etc.

For field loads is there a preference on Primers? Many seem to recommend the Win 209?

Thank you all again for the input!
 
Posts: 36 | Registered: 04 May 2004Reply With Quote
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I used what ever primer 209 primer I had on hand
 
Posts: 16031 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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The last time I checked, Fed 209s were slightly "hotter" than others. I don't think it makes much difference in non-maximum loads. However, if you're trying to light some slow powder for slower/lower pressure loads Fed 209s MIGHT help, especially in colder weather. Just a guess, I might add.


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When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere.

NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR.

I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process.
 
Posts: 17099 | Location: Texas USA | Registered: 07 May 2001Reply With Quote
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My reloads all average around 1100fps. I usually shoot over decoys so ranges are fairly short but I have taken quite a few long shots too and they kill well. I believe high velocity tends to 'blow' patterns but find a load that works and stick to it.
 
Posts: 884 | Location: Eastern Cape, South Africa | Registered: 08 January 2010Reply With Quote
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Is there anyone here loading subsonic for a metrogun?

http://www.metrogun.com/

I'm using 12 gr Titewad with an oz of shot. Just wondering if someone is having better luck with something else
 
Posts: 70 | Location: Iowa | Registered: 08 April 2002Reply With Quote
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STow
If it helps you there are a number of 12 gauge "sub sonic loads" less than 1145 fps listed in the Handloader's Guide for smokeless powders printed by IMR dated 8/96. The lowest speed listed was 1095 fps.

Just noticed that Ballistic Products lists a 12 ga. Sub-Sonic target loading package that uses 1 oz of shot at 1000 FPS. Powders can be either Titewad or International Clays.
Hope this helps.
Jim
 
Posts: 327 | Location: Ohio | Registered: 06 January 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim M.:
STow
If it helps you there are a number of 12 gauge "sub sonic loads" less than 1145 fps listed in the Handloader's Guide for smokeless powders printed by IMR dated 8/96. The lowest speed listed was 1095 fps.

Just noticed that Ballistic Products lists a 12 ga. Sub-Sonic target loading package that uses 1 oz of shot at 1000 FPS. Powders can be either Titewad or International Clays. a load data brochure is included.
Hope this helps.
Jim
 
Posts: 327 | Location: Ohio | Registered: 06 January 2008Reply With Quote
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I've loaded and shot a whole lotta sub-sonic 12 Ga. rounds and the main thing I've noticed is that the the shot doesn't spread out nearly as fast as with super-sonic. I'm pretty sure it has to do with the buffeting that takes place when the air flowing past the pellets is at or above the speed of sound. Less buffeting to spread the shot, and a little less initial velocity loss due to the energy saved in not having to produce a shock wave in front of each pellet.

My go-to load is 3/4 oz. of shot, a CB075 wad, and about 15-18 grains of Clays International powder. Kills clay birds dead. Also works well on quail and grouse with the appropriate sized shot. Less shot spread means you need fewer pellets, which means you can go with bigger pellets so you end up with fewer holes if you're hunting edible game.


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Posts: 403 | Registered: 03 September 2012Reply With Quote
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Ballistic Products lists a 12 ga. Sub-Sonic target loads. I sent them an e-mail requesting the list. They did send me a copy via e-mail
If you are interested contact them.
Jim
 
Posts: 327 | Location: Ohio | Registered: 06 January 2008Reply With Quote
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what about the English 2.5" field loads. At one time I used a lot of them, recoil is like a 410 and they pattern out of this world, I have been looking for some so my daughter can shoot trap with a 12 ga. superposed. I don't recall them being loud, but wouldn't swear to it..


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Posts: 36453 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
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