quote:

Originally posted by brnomauser:
Is there an accepted method of crowning between centres without skimming the muzzle for a steady? Only way I can think of is to make an adjustable ring to run in the steady so you an dial the barrel in. My headstock is 38” long…

And while we’re on the subject, what’s a good method for cutting a traditional rounded crown?

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
A friend of mine used a bearing steady, as pictured, and it worked very well for him. A barrelmaker friend just runs the barrel in the steady. He says, "I turned the barrel; it's concentric."
A sleeve on the barrel, trued between centers, is as good a method as any, if done right. The barrel should be cut to length (+.1") before turning the sleeve. Regards, Bill

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Crowning between centers is an oxymoron; how can you reach the crown if it has a center in it?
Have to hold the breech in a chuck and the end in a study rest. Or dial in your chuck to be perfectly true and hold the muzzle in that. Or use one of the many hand held tools on the market. Lots of ways to do it.
For a traditional rounded crown, use this:

quote:

Originally posted by brnomauser:

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Crowning between centers is an oxymoron; how can you reach the crown if it has a center in it?
Have to hold the breech in a chuck and the end in a study rest. Or dial in your chuck to be perfectly true and hold the muzzle in that. Or use one of the many hand held tools on the market. Lots of ways to do it.
For a traditional rounded crown, use this:

my apologies, I should’ve said crowning on a steady. I was just using the same lingo as people who say “chambering between centres” - meaning not in the headstock.

If I put the barrel in the headstock, I could dial the bore in but it wouldn’t be square r the face, only central. I guess it wouldn’t be on a steady either due to the banana, but at least there’d only be one variable - my 4-jaw’s teeth aren’t overly true…

With that tool - do you advance it into the muzzle on one plane, or change the compound for a few angles? And wouldn’t you need an outside and inside cutter with that style?

I do like the idea of a sleeve or bondo. I guess you’d use a brass/alloy nipple on the tailstock to protect the muzzle while you’re truing it, or just take 0.1” off afterwards?

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Connan:

quote:

Originally posted by brnomauser:

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
Crowning between centers is an oxymoron; how can you reach the crown if it has a center in it?
Have to hold the breech in a chuck and the end in a study rest. Or dial in your chuck to be perfectly true and hold the muzzle in that. Or use one of the many hand held tools on the market. Lots of ways to do it.
For a traditional rounded crown, use this:

my apologies, I should’ve said crowning on a steady. I was just using the same lingo as people who say “chambering between centres” - meaning not in the headstock.

If I put the barrel in the headstock, I could dial the bore in but it wouldn’t be square r the face, only central. I guess it wouldn’t be on a steady either due to the banana, but at least there’d only be one variable - my 4-jaw’s teeth aren’t overly true…

With that tool - do you advance it into the muzzle on one plane, or change the compound for a few angles? And wouldn’t you need an outside and inside cutter with that style?

I do like the idea of a sleeve or bondo. I guess you’d use a brass/alloy nipple on the tailstock to protect the muzzle while you’re truing it, or just take 0.1” off afterwards?

Can you not make a "spider" to fit on the far end of the headstock tube? Then you could dial in the position at both ends. Still doesn't really address the "banana" but I would think if the "banana" is bad enough to cause the crown to be uneven enough to be a problem it will manifest itself in other ways as well?

Thinking about it now, if the machine's through-bore is big enough, and you have a spider and a longish gauge pin that fits the barrel well, could you in theory dial it in so that the last inch of the barrel is in line with the lathe, by clocking the gauge pin right close to the muzzle and again a couple of inches outwards?

Please note, I am not making suggestions but asking questions. I am not a gunsmith, just an interested amateur trying to learn.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
You can do it either way; I just cut off a bit where the center was. You do move the cutter to get the radius you want. Inside and outside cutter? Not sure what you mean. One cutter does it all. Of course if your steady rest is wiggley, or barrel crooked, nothing will work except maybe a piloted crowning tool.
If your barrel is crooked then putting a sleeve on it won't help either. However, remember this; only the last 3 diameters of the bore determines where the projectile will go. Results of very extensive testing. (One of my jobs I was the AMC (Army Materiel Command) Program Manager for Muzzle Boresight Devices), and a lot of work went into that. In fact, many barrels are not straight at all, by design and manufacture, and that is all I can say about that. And we are hitting small targets at 3000 Meters. So really, all you have to do is insure that the last inch is running true.
I do not use bent barrels however.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Connan:

Can you not make a "spider" to fit on the far end of the headstock tube? Then you could dial in the position at both ends. Still doesn't really address the "banana" but I would think if the "banana" is bad enough to cause the crown to be uneven enough to be a problem it will manifest itself in other ways as well?

Thinking about it now, if the machine's through-bore is big enough, and you have a spider and a longish gauge pin that fits the barrel well, could you in theory dial it in so that the last inch of the barrel is in line with the lathe, by clocking the gauge pin right close to the muzzle and again a couple of inches outwards?

Please note, I am not making suggestions but asking questions. I am not a gunsmith, just an interested amateur trying to learn.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I do not straighten barrels; I do not use bent ones; I get them from Douglas; straight, as manufactured. Other makes seem to be bent from what you are saying. I don't know; I don't use other makes.
Again, only the last 3 calibers of barrel determines where the bullet goes, and only that part needs to be concentric with the muzzle. Which is why, if your barrel is bent, using a piloted crowning tool works.
And my lathe crowning tool like the one in the picture, does reach the bore. That picture is just one from Brownells ad; don't take it too literally. They are also easy to grind and I use one I made.
As always, come over and I'll show you how to do stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by brnomauser:

quote:

Originally posted by Peter Connan:

Can you not make a "spider" to fit on the far end of the headstock tube? Then you could dial in the position at both ends. Still doesn't really address the "banana" but I would think if the "banana" is bad enough to cause the crown to be uneven enough to be a problem it will manifest itself in other ways as well?

Thinking about it now, if the machine's through-bore is big enough, and you have a spider and a longish gauge pin that fits the barrel well, could you in theory dial it in so that the last inch of the barrel is in line with the lathe, by clocking the gauge pin right close to the muzzle and again a couple of inches outwards?

Please note, I am not making suggestions but asking questions. I am not a gunsmith, just an interested amateur trying to learn.

id love to, but as I put in my initial post, my headstock is too long

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I do not straighten barrels; I do not use bent ones; I get them from Douglas; straight, as manufactured. Other makes seem to be bent from what you are saying. I don't know; I don't use other makes.
Again, only the last 3 calibers of barrel determines where the bullet goes, and only that part needs to be concentric with the muzzle. Which is why, if your barrel is bent, using a piloted crowning tool works.
And my lathe crowning tool like the one in the picture, does reach the bore. That picture is just one from Brownells ad; don't take it too literally. They are also easy to grind and I use one I made.
As always, come over and I'll show you how to do stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
What does the spindle bore condition mean to anything. Nothing ever touches that.
Everyone come on over and we'll do some crowning in various ways.

quote:

Originally posted by Timan:

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
What does the spindle bore condition mean to anything. Nothing ever touches that.
Everyone come on over and we'll do some crowning in various ways.

I use a lathe with a precision spindle bore that's 2-1/16 ID. I use threaded collars to support the end that's inside the bore then dial in the end I'm working on in a 4 jaw. It's works and they shoot.
I quit the steady rest method well over twenty years ago for obvious reasons.

quote:

Originally posted by Timan:

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
What does the spindle bore condition mean to anything. Nothing ever touches that.
Everyone come on over and we'll do some crowning in various ways.

I use a lathe with a precision spindle bore that's 2-1/16 ID. I use threaded collars to support the end that's inside the bore then dial in the end I'm working on in a 4 jaw. It's works and they shoot.
I quit the steady rest method well over twenty years ago for obvious reasons.

quote:

Originally posted by richj:
Is that called a Spider?

quote:

Originally posted by Timan:

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
What does the spindle bore condition mean to anything. Nothing ever touches that.
Everyone come on over and we'll do some crowning in various ways.

I use a lathe with a precision spindle bore that's 2-1/16 ID. I use threaded collars to support the end that's inside the bore then dial in the end I'm working on in a 4 jaw. It's works and they shoot.
I quit the steady rest method well over twenty years ago for obvious reasons.

quote:

Originally posted by brnomauser:

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
I do not straighten barrels; I do not use bent ones; I get them from Douglas; straight, as manufactured. Other makes seem to be bent from what you are saying. I don't know; I don't use other makes.
Again, only the last 3 calibers of barrel determines where the bullet goes, and only that part needs to be concentric with the muzzle. Which is why, if your barrel is bent, using a piloted crowning tool works.
And my lathe crowning tool like the one in the picture, does reach the bore. That picture is just one from Brownells ad; don't take it too literally. They are also easy to grind and I use one I made.

Bored a bit of scrap alloy, put a wrap of paper round it, drove it on, trued it on the centre, ran it on to the steady and rounded the crown off. I’m quite pleased with how it turned out.