I just bought a Model 70 Super Shadow in 300 wsm. Appears almost new and hasn't been fired much.
I attempted to shoot it for the first time yesterday. After the first shot with factory ammo the bolt was hard to rotate.
After the second, it was REALLY hard to rotate. Changed ammo and bolt would not close. Cartridge would go into chamber but bolt would not rotate into locked position. It does this with empty brass as well. Needless to say I quit at that point. Any thoughts?

get a light an a mirror and check the locking surfaces -- sounds more dirty in hard to reach places -- could be a factory reject, certainly, but i'd go with dirty-where-it-is-hard-to-clean first

Check to make sure that one of you front scope base screws or front tang screw is not to long. Just loosen them off and try it. But it's probable that the headspace is too tight. Those goofy, sharp shouldered cases should never have been developed. It could also be a problem with the extractor or ejector if it's a plunger type.

Need some custom loaded ammo for it?

uh.....thanks but no Jim....since it won't go "bang" right now, I have no use for any more ammo.
But thanks!

Talked to Winchester this morning. Since it is a "G" serial number, they will not service it or even look at it. Seems they quit doing this
the first of this year. Amazing....Ruger would want it back and make it right.....and I have 3 other "G" series in the safe...
oh well, off to find a local gun smith.After I take bolt apart and clean it and the chamber real good!

quote:

Originally posted by ftg767:
Talked to Winchester this morning. Since it is a "G" serial number, they will not service it or even look at it. Seems they quit doing this
the first of this year. Amazing....

Wow! How far they have fallen....

1. Like Jeff said, check for debris in the bolt lugs and recesses. Flush with Gun Scrubber or similar product; lube the bolt lug contact surfaces (with graphite or grease) and try again.

2. Like Rod said, loosen the scope base screws and try again. Remove the action from the stock and try to chamber a round and an empty case. The stock (or action screws) may be causing the action to bind.


3. Check that the number scratched on the bottom of the bolt corresponds to the serial number of the rifle. There nay be a mismatch there causing the binding.

4. If none of the above helps, call Winchester and ask for a Customer Service supervisor. This is a possibly unsafe condition and should be addressed.

George

If memory serves Olin and FN, or the Herstal Group which is owned by The Walloon Government, sort of took over and split up Winchester / US Repeating Arms Co, Browning and Miruko. Olin took responsibility for the chemical end of defense, military and sporting pyrotechnics and the Herstal group took the arms manufacturing end. I have noticed that Herstal group has orphaned most of the old product lines and has liquidated the old inventory to companies like; Gun Parts Corporation, Western Gun Parts, Jack First and others. Much in the same way that Ford no longer carries parts or services the Model A's and T's. There comes a time when you just have to give up on older models before they become an anchor to your profit margins. All companies do this. Try finding parts for a 10 year old lawn mower or toaster and you will get the idea.

quote:

Originally posted by ftg767:
uh.....thanks but no Jim....since it won't go "bang" right now, I have no use for any more ammo.
But thanks!

Talked to Winchester this morning. Since it is a "G" serial number, they will not service it or even look at it. Seems they quit doing this
the first of this year. Amazing....Ruger would want it back and make it right.....and I have 3 other "G" series in the safe...
oh well, off to find a local gun smith.After I take bolt apart and clean it and the chamber real good!

You buy the ammo I'll take a look at your gun for return shipping on it.

Rod,
you skipped the bankrupt USRAC and the fact that "winchester" is a marketing term -- FN has ZERO liability to look at a USRAC product, nor should they want to, as they didn't make it not assume product liability ...

of course ruger would want it back - they made it, as a company -- FN aint USRAC, and USRAC is bankrupt, gone, and their worn out machines and tooling sold at auction ..

Any chance it was Federal ammo? Very hot in my rifle.

Winchester 150gn BST

quote:

I just bought a Model 70 Super Shadow in 300 wsm. Appears almost new and hasn't been fired much.

I guess you now have found the reason it wasn't shot much.

Inspect and clean first I friend brought a savage in 30-06 wouldn't extract fired rounds. When I did get the case out. I noticed a deep gouge on about a 1/4 inch long on the case ahead of the base.

When I took a strong light and looked at the chamber I notice a burr in that area.

After some care full polishing the rifle functions just fine now.

Could be simple could be bigger.

quote:

Originally posted by ftg767:
I just bought a Model 70 Super Shadow in 300 wsm. Appears almost new and hasn't been fired much.
I attempted to shoot it for the first time yesterday. After the first shot with factory ammo the bolt was hard to rotate.
After the second, it was REALLY hard to rotate. Changed ammo and bolt would not close. Cartridge would go into chamber but bolt would not rotate into locked position. It does this with empty brass as well. Needless to say I quit at that point. Any thoughts?

A lot of these rifles have chambers which are not round. This stems from a combination of things. The thread diameter is only 1" which results in relatively thin chamber walls over the threads. In addition, the barrel threads are often cut undersized. Finally, the threads in the receiver are interupted as the bolt raceways were broached through the threads. Add all of this together and, when the barrel is torqued on, the chamber is distorted; sometimes enough that some factory brass will not chamber. When a cartridge is fired, unless the brass is oriented exactly the same, it will not chamber; even if full length resized.
The problem is correctable but at some expense. The receiver threads should be enlarged to 1 1/16"x 28 tpi (one could thread to 16 tpi but there is a purpose to threading to the finer therwhich will become apparent). The barrel, once removed from the receiver, may spring back enough that the chamber is round. If so, the tenon of the barrel may be sleeved. the sleeve will thread on and the threads should be quite tight. The sleeve is locked in place with loc-tie, epoxy, or it can be soldered. It is then threaded to be a nice fit in the receiver, the barrel is re-installed and Bob's your uncle. The extractor cut may not line up so a new one must be cut or one can set the barrel back to orient the cut then deepen the chamber. Alternatively, one can thread the sleeve and orient it so that the threads are timed before gluing it on or, for the ultimate in retro-fitting, use a lock-ring to lock the sleeve in place.
The sleeve is the reason the receiver is threaded to 1 1/16x28. This provides a large enough minor diameter that there is some metal over the major diameter on the barrel tenon.
If the chamber does not spring back when the barrel is removed, it will be necessary to set the barrel back enough to get rid of the factory threads or, better yet, throw it in the trash bin and re-barrel.
Even if you decided to cut to the chase and re-barrel, the receiver threads should still be enlarged for any WSM chambering. Regards, Bill.

So today I took bolt apart and cleaned and oiled it. Nothing of note inside except it was DRY.
Really cleaned barrel with emphasis on chamber area....really dirty....so I tried to load it....fired brass not
sized I bought used will not chamber...the 2 emptys from the other day will...
factory loaded rounds will chamber and the bolt can be forced down....will have to shoot it again
to find out what happens now. Will advise...but it will be a few days.
Thanks for help

You would do well to take to a gunsmith and find out what is wrong, and then figure out who to send it to or have the smith fix it..may be a number of things and no one here will know what to do without looking at it and doing some testing for sorts. A few good ideas like check the scope screws and the front magazine screw. a chamber cast is always a good idea..Taking all this to a "good" smith is your best bet and that takes the guess and by gosh out of it.

Talked to two Winchester people last week and was told not their problem. Left a message for a supervisor to call today:

Well the only thing good I can say about Winchester is that the supervisor called back. And sung the same old broken record:
basically I am screwed. They will not stand behind any G series Model 70 and don't care if it blows up....not their fault.
So if you have one of these, pray you don't need help cause you ain't gonna get it. Screw Winchester and through my contacts
in the local gun market, this will cost them a whole lot more money than fixing this.

Thanks to all above who have offered ideas and help. I really appreciate it.

Well, the simple fact of the matter is. The company that built the gun is gone. Out of business. I suppose you can boycott the new corporation if you want. But you aren't harming the people that built the gun and left you hanging. Had the old corporation not been so greedy, they would have left money on the table and the conditions that the new company produce parts and service products that were made under the old leadership. That obviously didn't happen and they simply liquidated all of the old parts to jobbing houses like Gun Parts Corporation, Jack First and Western. The new product is now being made by BC Miruko of Japan. I doubt that they even have the tooling to produce the parts for the old products.

The guys that made your gun have skipped town and left no forwarding address.

i'll say it again .. there is NO SUCH COMPANY as "winchester arms" ...your rifle likely says "USRAC, INC" ... the winchester name is sold as a license to manufacture - FN received ZERO dollars from USRAC when USRAC went bankrupt -- not even the machines, which were worn out slag....

This is the same as trying to get Fiat Chrysler to fix a Plymouth under warranty. They do not repair things that are no longer part of the new company.
As for the one inch barrel threads, that isn't the problem. Model 70s have had one inch barrel threads since the beginning.
I have had one of those with an off center chamber; solution is to re-barrel. For which you will have to pay. That's business.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
This is the same as trying to get Fiat Chrysler to fix a Plymouth under warranty. They do not repair things that are no longer part of the new company.
As for the one inch barrel threads, that isn't the problem. Model 70s have had one inch barrel threads since the beginning.
I have had one of those with an off center chamber; solution is to re-barrel. For which you will have to pay. That's business.

Actually, the 1 inch shank does become a problem, when combined with the interrupted thread and the thin chamber walls in the short magnums and the ultra mag cases. The pitch on the threads squishes the chamber walls and they bug into the area of the interrupted threads. I have seen guys try to correct them by polishing or running in a reamer without removing the barrel. It seldom works. Open up the receivers or re-barrel them in a standard cartridge.

It's one of those oops thingys.

Blaming the Belgians for the mess left behind by USRAC is a lot like blaming Trump for the current state of the United States.
Actually, the ones responsible for that mess are the ones that are trying to place the blame on the new administration so that's a bad analogy ! lol

Never had a problem with the barrels on Model 70s even on the belted mags. Maybe the WSMs are the problem.

Anything based on the big 416 case Tom. The chamber walls just get to thin and the 60 degree threads press the top and bottom of the barrel stub together and they displace into the interrupted cuts on the sides. Regular belted mags never seem to be a problem. Most people shooting factory loads never have a problem. When you start reloading for them it starts cropping up because the case doesn't line up to the flat sides correctly. If you get one like that, pull off the barrel and coat the threads liberally with MarineTex, screw it back on hand tight and let it harden. The problem will usually, instantly go away. That's the monkey-fix. Real gun-plumbers would nebber-do-dat.

While the problem was mostly apparent in rifles chambered for WSM cartridges but was evident in many belted magnums as well; just not to such a great extent. I have seen WSM's which were so bad that even full length sizing wouldn't produce a case which would chamber unless oriented just right.
The first one I saw ( a 300 WSM) was out of round by .007". I was surprised to find, when I removed the barrel, the chamber only measured .001" out. When I re-installed the barrel and made a chamber cast the casst measured a bit more than .007" out. I fixed this one by re-threading the receiver and sleeving the barrel threads as I described. Subsequent to this, I would not barrel a WSM without re-cutting the receiver threads.
By the way, this first rifle also had barrel threads which quite a bit undersized which made things worse. Regards, Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:
While the problem was mostly apparent in rifles chambered for WSM cartridges but was evident in many belted magnums as well; just not to such a great extent. I have seen WSM's which were so bad that even full length sizing wouldn't produce a case which would chamber unless oriented just right.
The first one I saw ( a 300 WSM) was out of round by .007". I was surprised to find, when I removed the barrel, the chamber only measured .001" out. When I re-installed the barrel and made a chamber cast the casst measured a bit more than .007" out. I fixed this one by re-threading the receiver and sleeving the barrel threads as I described. Subsequent to this, I would not barrel a WSM without re-cutting the receiver threads.
By the way, this first rifle also had barrel threads which quite a bit undersized which made things worse. Regards, Bill

I've never seen it in a standard belted mag Billy, but probably because I never looked for it and that the amount of crush is so slight in the standard magnums that it's never caused any of my beer can plinkin and muskrat sinkin customers any grief. No doubt that it probably does exist though. So far I've been lucky. I tell guys what it's going to cost to fix it and after they wake up I give them the number for Pud, at Bashaw Sports or Alain Bouchards number in Ulverton and let they fight it out under warranty. While no one has come right out and told me, I'm sure the warranty fix is to screw them out, coat the threads in red Loctite and then screw them back together hand tight. After 15 or 20 years of doing warranty for all of those clowns, I've kinda figured out the way they think.

C H E A P !

I never saw a real problem with a belted mag either and only checked after my experience with the WSM rifles. A 7mm Rem also produced cases which were not round but only by about .002" and re-sizing allowed them to be chambered OK so it really was not an issue unless one had tried to neck size.
The "hand tight with loc-tite" repair would probably be the factory-authorised repair alright; with the gunsmith dipping into his creative writing experience when filling out the claim (we've both been there). Regards, Bill

quote:

Originally posted by Bill Leeper:

The "hand tight with loc-tite" repair would probably be the factory-authorised repair alright; with the gunsmith dipping into his creative writing experience when filling out the claim (we've both been there). Regards, Bill

You don't actually think that I gained my razor sharp, creative prose from the columns I held with Alberta's Hunting and Shooting magazine, The Alberta Outdoorsman and the part time stuff that I did for the Western Producer and Western Canada Outdoors did you? HELL NO ! That came from the thousands of hours of bullshitting I put in filling out warranty claims for Remington, Winchester, Savage, Ruger, Browning, Weatherby, Kimber and Perazzi!

When you can convince a bunch of tightwad Italians, that an occasional misfire constituted a $250 lockup rebuild,
you've made the big leagues baby ! ! ! !

The saga is complete. UPS just delivered it to me after 2 weeks at Midwest Gun Works in Mo.
They adjusted the headspace and voila! It now chambers the 200 gn. as well, obviously, as all the others.
Now to remount the scope and hit the range.
Thanks to all who offered help and ideas. This is what makes this forum great!

I love it when a plan comes together. Let us know how it groups.

I just took a closer look at my M70 Featherweight in 30-06.
It has a G-number (G 225xxxx), and under the Winchester name it sayes " Trade marks licensed from Olin Corp".
Who made this rifle, and what is the thing about the G-numbers?

So far it has a thousand rounds through the barrel, but is still a pretty accurate rifle and is functioning well without any hiccups.

quote:

Originally posted by custombolt:
I love it when a plan comes together. Let us know how it groups.

Not me. "Adjusted headspace"?? I don't like the sound of that. Just exactly how did they go about that? I know how head space can be changed I would just like to know how someone did it on my rifle, Guess thats why i work on my own stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:

quote:

Originally posted by custombolt:
I love it when a plan comes together. Let us know how it groups.

Not me. "Adjusted headspace"?? I don't like the sound of that. Just exactly how did they go about that? I know how head space can be changed I would just like to know how someone did it on my rifle, Guess thats why i work on my own stuff.

KC, they used a "headspace adjusting tool", don't you have one in your toolbox?

Weren't these Shadow rifles a push feed setup? If so I would guess they had the factory "repair" solution described by SpeerChucker done to it...

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
Weren't these Shadow rifles a push feed setup? If so I would guess they had the factory "repair" solution described by SpeerChucker done to it...

They either ran a reamer in to the depth needed or did a skim cut off of the lugs until the gauges closed positive. Probably the lugs.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
This is the same as trying to get Fiat Chrysler to fix a Plymouth under warranty.

Or a 1993 W250 with Cummins diesel. The steel hydraulic lines from the transmission to the heat exchanger under the exhaust manifold rub each other until they leak. No parts at Dodge any longer, or full-sized batteries for a 1993 either.

or, a Factory oversight that was never corrected.
I bet Rod and others on here that have done factory repairs have seen a few of those.
I bought new M12 Mauser and the bolt wouldn't close. Sent it to Texas and it came back with the extractor stoned a bit more.

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
Weren't these Shadow rifles a push feed setup? If so I would guess they had the factory "repair" solution described by SpeerChucker done to it...

Those short, fat, sharp shouldered cases can be a bitch with headspace. The factory cartridges only have to be 1/2, C hair too long and they sometimes won't close. Guys have that problem when neck sizing those cartridges too. There isn't enough crush power in the action to compress such a large, fat shoulder. Headspace in them can't be kept to the same tolerances as those found in small diameter, tapered shouldered cartridges. There really should be .008 inch difference between cartridge and chamber measurements on the fool things and I believe Winchester only allowed .004 inch. You would think that the silly fawkers would have learned that after all of the problems that they had with the 284 Winchester? But I guess those guys are all dead now and they never left notes.

Stupid asses !