quote:

Originally posted by DOPPELGANGSTER:

quote:

THe ford 150 with 2.7 v6 ecoboost does 0-60 in under 6 seconds - 5.6 to be exact .

I'd like to see that!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23O-hS-r0gQ

Just for you doppel - would hate one these american pickups beating the crap out of bavaria's best

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by DOPPELGANGSTER:

quote:

THe ford 150 with 2.7 v6 ecoboost does 0-60 in under 6 seconds - 5.6 to be exact .

I'd like to see that!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23O-hS-r0gQ

Just for you doppel - would hate one these american pickups beating the crap out of bavaria's best

Mike

Er, that test was zero to 281 feet, not zero to 60 mph. Might be a good truck but with one Bubba and a half tank of fuel it has a P/W of about 13.5:1. 0-60 time is probably closer to 8 secs, especially with pick up tires and live axle/leaf springs. You could trap it or radar it and find out but it's fast enough for a LD pick up if ya ask me.

quote:

beating the crap out of bavaria's best

I'm sure the guys in Munich are concerned about Fords highly advanced pickup tech beating them

Next seasons endurance (clue - that means it has to work for 24 hours full tilt) racer. 600+ HP from a 2 liter four banger.

quote:

Originally posted by DOPPELGANGSTER:

quote:

Originally posted by Beretta682E:

quote:

Originally posted by DOPPELGANGSTER:

quote:

THe ford 150 with 2.7 v6 ecoboost does 0-60 in under 6 seconds - 5.6 to be exact .

I'd like to see that!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23O-hS-r0gQ

Just for you doppel - would hate one these american pickups beating the crap out of bavaria's best

Mike

Er, that test was zero to 281 feet, not zero to 60 mph. Might be a good truck but with one Bubba and a half tank of fuel it has a P/W of about 13.5:1. 0-60 time is probably closer to 8 secs, especially with pick up tires and live axle/leaf springs. You could trap it or radar it and find out but it's fast enough for a LD pick up if ya ask me.

http://www.caranddriver.com/ford/f-150

2.7 is impressive. Ecoboost are impressive.

American full size trucks are impressive.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by DOPPELGANGSTER:

quote:

beating the crap out of bavaria's best

I'm sure the guys in Munich are concerned about Fords highly advanced pickup tech beating them

Next seasons endurance (clue - that means it has to work for 24 hours full tilt) racer. 600+ HP from a 2 liter four banger.

New tesla Model 3

Mike

quote:

New tesla Model 3

Ja! Here's Audi's version of a Prius racer.

4 banger turbo/Hybrid.

The Toyota Hilux with a more than adequate diesel would be great. The 70 series Landcruisers would be better, but incredibly unlikely (the DOT and EPA won't allow it).

The third world Toyotas are the best. As Gato said, the diesels here are not for the average guy. They have more power than is ever needed.

quote:

Originally posted by Opus1:
I have tried to use their program in the past, but was always able to negotiate a better deal on the lot. Then again, I live in a large city with lots of competition.

Will be interesting to see your results.

I had Costco price a F-150 for me - its basically invoice price less $50. Costco price is invoice less $750 but there is a $699 dealer fee.

There is also a ford advertising assessment and a fuel charge (ford charges you for the tank of gas) of $900 total.

Get a very similar price on True car.

Looks like the dealer is mainly working for holdback on the new car sales.

Main issue is dealer is 250 miles away. I went down and did a test drive as I had to go to South Florida for some work meetings - was on the way.

Like dealing with sales rep - he is a non commission guy who was fired from the UN for exposing corruption. Lived in Africa and Sri Lanka. He is retired and doing Costco sales on an hourly bases.

My experience with Chevy has been terrible - most dealers don't know or don't care about the Costco program. Also Costco locks in the selling price but rebates or specials are on delivery and there is complete uncertainty as to what those will be from most dealers - or maybe they just did not want to tell me.

Costco Internet (True car) changing new car sales model. But new cars are 2% margin business. Real money is in used cars and service.

Need to make a decision or maybe I will wait till later in the summer.

Mike

quote:

Looks like the dealer is mainly working for holdback on the new car sales.

Your sales slave is working for a flat. The dealership is working for stair step and F2D volume incentives. MSRP, Invoice, etc is all meaningless. Huge volumes of domestic car sales deliver under A - Z plans to some coddled class of customer. The "dumb money" is in Costco or walk-in sales. A loaded F150 prolly has $7500 "profit" below the line.

quote:

Originally posted by DOPPELGANGSTER:

quote:

Looks like the dealer is mainly working for holdback on the new car sales.

Your sales slave is working for a flat. The dealership is working for stair step and F2D volume incentives. MSRP, Invoice, etc is all meaningless. Huge volumes of domestic car sales deliver under A - Z plans to some coddled class of customer. The "dumb money" is in Costco or walk-in sales. A loaded F150 prolly has $7500 "profit" below the line.

They did send the pricing for the A&Z plan, D plan, X plan and the pricing is in line - better than X Plan but less than D plan (fleet sales).

I always work under the assumption I am the dumb money.

Vegas was not built on winners and nice auto dealerships are not built on selling below cost.

Mike

quote:

Vegas was not built on winners and nice auto dealerships are not built on selling below cost.

Yup. Squeezing the last few bucks out of em is rarely worth the time if you have anything else in the world to do.

Ended up getting a f-150. Bought it via costco but overall had a terrible experience with chevy dealers - no one knew the costco package even as they had trucks exhibited at costco stores.

Very impressed with f-150.

Mike

Glad I stumbled on this thread as I have been considering new truck purchase. No heavy towing, bed space and cab space important. No need for 4WD that I know of. I don't need every option (actually don't want many of them) option known.

F-150 was my first choice, but the chevy ads did kind make me set back and think twice.

None of you mention Dodge. Back when I was in college Firefighting for summer money the USFS had old Doge 1/2 ton slant six models. they went on and on and would get into places others claimed were 4WD territory.

NO Dodge supporters here.

I HATE dealing with dealers which only makes me more vulnerable to getting over charged.

Is there anything out there deliberately over priced where the consumer is supposed fight tooth and nail to get it to the correct price

Invoice has become the new MSRP and is now the starting point for negotiating for just about all cars and trucks. Even with the popular Jeep Wrangler there are dealers that will order you one for 6-7% under invoice.

quote:

Originally posted by TCLouis:
Glad I stumbled on this thread as I have been considering new truck purchase. No heavy towing, bed space and cab space important. No need for 4WD that I know of. I don't need every option (actually don't want many of them) option known.

F-150 was my first choice, but the chevy ads did kind make me set back and think twice.

None of you mention Dodge. Back when I was in college Firefighting for summer money the USFS had old Doge 1/2 ton slant six models. they went on and on and would get into places others claimed were 4WD territory.

NO Dodge supporters here.

I HATE dealing with dealers which only makes me more vulnerable to getting over charged.

Is there anything out there deliberately over priced where the consumer is supposed fight tooth and nail to get it to the correct price

I have owned a new f-150 and leased a GMC Sierra.

Both are excellent trucks and do far more than I will ever use them for.

Overall I liked the drive of the Chevy better - it was more truck like. The ford feels like land yacht - super quite and comfy.

I also liked the Chevy engine v8 better than the Eco boost. It actually gave me better mileage - 22 to 20 with ford. Ford accelerates like a sports car.

Overall I like the ford better but it also is a fully loaded model that costs $20k more than gmc.

I bought the ford cause they financed me for 60 months at zero percent. They also sold truck at Msrp.

I hate car shopping. Why I use Costco. May not be the best deal but my time has value. Also often a company financing program can dominate any bargaining.

Mike

I enjoy the process of buying a vehicle because I negotiate for a living . It is easy if you follow a few rules. Be patient, shop several dealers, I buy late in the year when next model is already out. Factory rebates are everywhere. I always start at invoice and if they are hungry they will give up some of their "holdback" which is usually 2 to 3% below invoice. I got over $10k off the truck I am driving. In short, I put myself in a position of control.
I drive an F150 4x4 , 5 liter, and love it.
I could probably live without 4x4 but resale is quicker and stronger here on 4x4. I do tow boats and a utility trailer with UTVs and have a large farm so I can justify 4x4. My lifestyle is very typical of South LOuisiana and the truck market here is enormous.

BTW, my son has a Ram 1500 longhorn 4x4 with the eco diesel and he is very impressed and so am I. It is quiet, rides great, fantastic interior, and can tow a good bit more than my F150, and gets in the high 20s fuel economy.

Cheers

quote:

Originally posted by BEGNO:
I enjoy the process of buying a vehicle because I negotiate for a living . It is easy if you follow a few rules. Be patient, shop several dealers, I buy late in the year when next model is already out. Factory rebates are everywhere. I always start at invoice and if they are hungry they will give up some of their "holdback" which is usually 2 to 3% below invoice. I got over $10k off the truck I am driving. In short, I put myself in a position of control.
I drive an F150 4x4 , 5 liter, and love it.
I could probably live without 4x4 but resale is quicker and stronger here on 4x4. I do tow boats and a utility trailer with UTVs and have a large farm so I can justify 4x4. My lifestyle is very typical of South LOuisiana and the truck market here is enormous.

BTW, my son has a Ram 1500 longhorn 4x4 with the eco diesel and he is very impressed and so am I. It is quiet, rides great, fantastic interior, and can tow a good bit more than my F150, and gets in the high 20s fuel economy.

Cheers

Hold back is usually much more than 2-3% below invoice and not just limited to older models. Last week I placed an order for a 2017 Jeep Wrangler and the dealer's price was 7% under invoice. And we all know the dealer wouldn't be losing money on a factory order so I wouldn't be surprised if the holdback/incentives are 10% or more.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:

quote:

Originally posted by BEGNO:
I enjoy the process of buying a vehicle because I negotiate for a living . It is easy if you follow a few rules. Be patient, shop several dealers, I buy late in the year when next model is already out. Factory rebates are everywhere. I always start at invoice and if they are hungry they will give up some of their "holdback" which is usually 2 to 3% below invoice. I got over $10k off the truck I am driving. In short, I put myself in a position of control.
I drive an F150 4x4 , 5 liter, and love it.
I could probably live without 4x4 but resale is quicker and stronger here on 4x4. I do tow boats and a utility trailer with UTVs and have a large farm so I can justify 4x4. My lifestyle is very typical of South LOuisiana and the truck market here is enormous.

BTW, my son has a Ram 1500 longhorn 4x4 with the eco diesel and he is very impressed and so am I. It is quiet, rides great, fantastic interior, and can tow a good bit more than my F150, and gets in the high 20s fuel economy.

Cheers

Hold back is usually much more than 2-3% below invoice and not just limited to older models. Last week I placed an order for a 2017 Jeep Wrangler and the dealer's price was 7% under invoice. And we all know the dealer wouldn't be losing money on a factory order so I wouldn't be surprised if the holdback/incentives are 10% or more.

There are so many moving pieces to retail auto pricing.

No one is building massive dealerships to sell at a loss.


But end pricing is a function of manufacture rebate, time of year, time of month, geographic discounts and so many other factors.

I never get why buying cars should be this damn complex. Same for homes. You can buy financial index for a penny bid ask spread via ETFs

Also all dealers tell me they sell cars at cost to make money on trade ins and service - I don't buy that as I bought my truck 250 miles from home and will never go there for service.

There is a massive incentive from manufactures to move vehicles - a dealer selling 1000 cars a month has totally different net pricing than one selling 100. The rebates and net payments back to dealer are volume based.

Mike