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If the build quality is better than Landy (not at all difficult), then this will be a home run especially with the BMW’s B57 diesel engine. Probably won't leak either.

Worth watching this one develop.

quote:

The Ineos Grenadier Is a New BMW-Powered Off-Roader With Familiar Looks
No, it's not just a resto-modded Land Rover Defender.

BY ALEX GOY JUL 1, 2020

Some of the best ideas are born from a conversation in a pub. Bands are formed, movies are imagined, relationships started, and in the case of the Ineos Grenadier, a new car starts its life.

In the Grenadier pub in Belgravia, London, a beer-fueled chat about what a car to follow on from the outgoing original Land Rover Defender would be like has turned in to an actual car: the Grenadier. It would need to be stripped back and utilitarian, leaning more towards workhorse than family wagon. It should be able to tackle the wilds of the world without issue, and be easy to fix. It would take over from where the old Land Rover left off.

See, Sir Jim Ratcliffe, Chairman of multinational chemical company Ineos, is a keen adventurer and car enthusiast, as are his mates. They spotted a gap in the market for a no-nonsense off-roader and were rather keen to have a car that suited their globetrotting needs—not a super plush diluted version thereof. To make it happen, Sir Jim hired a group of auto industry professionals to make his car a reality.

The Grenadier has finally broken cover and, to the untrained eye, it could be mistaken for the old Landie. It’s tall, slab sided, and looks utilitarian. Its two-box shape is certainly familiar, though there are key differences dotted all over the car. See those dark rails along the doors? They’re fixing points for… stuff like gas cans, and bulkier items that you might not want inside. The things that look like windows on the leading edge of the roof are actually cut outs for bars to lash equipment to. In the rear, there’s a storage box that allows you to store muddy/damp/unpleasant items safely, but outside the vehicle so your interior can stay unsullied.

Ineos is developing its own line of accessories to fit to the Grenadier, but it also wants customers to use existing kit, and for third party manufacturers to create their own accessories to suit different applications. The Grenadier, says Ineos, has been designed to be a blank canvas for owners to tailor the car to their own requirements.

The rear has two doors, a small one (that opens first) so you can throw smaller stuff in the back, and a larger one to give access to its full load space. Ineos says it can take a full euro pallet stacked as tall as the vehicle will allow, or carry 2200lbs of gear. It’ll tow three times that as well.

Toby Ecuyer, Ineos Automotive’s head of design commented that he wanted to design an uncompromising vehicle, one that you’ll want to be part of your family.

At the moment, Ineos hasn’t shown the interior, though it has said it’ll meet the expectation of the 21st century consumer in levels of comfort and technology. Expect elbow room for drivers, for example. The seats will be comfortable and cosseting, there’ll be screens (because everything needs screens now) to show drivers what they need to see, plenty of light, and space to stretch out. For those disappointed by the new Land Rover Defender’s lack of hose down-able interior, the Grenadier’s got you covered. Hose away, off-road fans… There are two panels on its roof, removable so you can go full tank commander if you need to.

Spec and looks-wise it’s as practical as they come then. Ineos states that it’ll have a number of applications—for enthusiasts who want to climb mountains, parents wanting something (very) different for the school run, governments looking to move around inhospitable terrain, NGOs, search and rescue, farmers, estate managers, hire companies, and pretty much everything in between. If you’ve need of something on the more rugged side of off-road, Ineos says the Grenadier will have you covered.

While full technical details are yet to be revealed, there’s a fair bit we do know. It’ll sit on a ladder chassis, have a mechanical transfer box, have a center-locking differential as standard (front and rear optional) be running permanent four-wheel drive, and it’ll get its BMW straight-six power delivered to each wheel by a ZF gearbox.

During a press briefing, Ineos Automotive CEO Dirk Heilmann commented that even before the deal was done, a BMW powertrain was top of the list. In Europe, its motor will meet stringent Euro6 and later Euro7 emissions regulations. Buyers will have the option of BMW’s B57 diesel engine, or the B58 petrol. That’s for now at least, but Ineos is looking forward. Heilmann alluded to an alternative future for its powertrains. He said that as reliability and durability are key, an EV would be ideal, but as it stands that would difficult to implement and let the car do everything it needs to do. He added that the company has been looking at hydrogen fuel cells as a future method of propulsion, though there are no firm plans just yet.

Ineos says it meets all the relevant European crash regulations as well.

While Ineos is expecting the Grenadier to see the bulk of its sales in Europe and North America (25,000 a year at peak), it will be available all over the world. Not every chunk of the planet has access to state-of-the-art mechanical facilities, so the Grenadier needs to be reliable, and easy to fix on the fly. Over 1.1 million miles of testing, Ineos says it wants to make sure it can get you where you want to go, and back.

Size-wise, no firm dimensions have been revealed, but that its wheelbase "is about the same as the G-Wagen." Similarly, no firm pricing has been announced either. However, Ineos is pitching it at the small pick-up/commercial vehicle segment, which tends to sit in the later $40,000 to early $50,000 segment in Europe.

Grenadier will be part of a family of cars, a station wagon and a pick-up will get the ball rolling but more are set to come. We’ll hear more from Ineos later this year.





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Posts: 22442 | Location: Occupying Little Minds Rent Free | Registered: 04 October 2012Reply With Quote
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That looks cool. Hopefully reliability will be vastly improved over Land Rover. I like the idea of a big boxy tough 4wd suv that is not luxed out like the G-Wagen.

I think I will wait for a 3-or4-year old low mileage lightly used one to appear.
 
Posts: 172 | Location: north MS | Registered: 28 June 2009Reply With Quote
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This sounds like a great idea.
 
Posts: 1007 | Registered: 21 December 2008Reply With Quote
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We run Cruisers both petrol and diesel, Landy game viewers and one Defender all diesel, a smattering of Hiluxes all diesel, two Chevy Blazers Cummins powered, 4 Suzuki Gypsy's petrol, a batch of Mahindras petrol and diesel three of which are Thars, and a 416 Unimog affectionately known as Das Beast.

Of all of these, the Landys are by far the cheapest to operate, the engines are nearly indestructible (but not totally Africa proof), parts are abundant and they are designed for Africa. The two manufacturers we have the most problems with are Suzuki and Mahindra as parts are scarce and expensive. However, the Gypsys and Thars are shittough little machines. Cruizers are great and tough but chow fuel which can be a challenge when the nearest fuel station can be more than 8 hours away. Plan accordingly.

A well built Landy Defender clone with an excellent engine like the BMW B57 will be a huge hit in Africa - if it ever gets there. The new Land Rovers are city vehicles for those who dream of off-roading or consider a well groomed gravel road as off-roading.


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Posts: 22442 | Location: Occupying Little Minds Rent Free | Registered: 04 October 2012Reply With Quote
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Being a Land Cruiser fan for many years... I currently runtwo, a standard 100 series v8 for on-road and lighter off-roading and a HZJ-73 SWB diesel. This is the last of the mechanically injected 4.2L diesels. Gets 30 MPG on the road.

LR Defenders are a great truck for the mechanics to mess with. Cool looking, but I am undecided on the lastest Defender... to cushy for a real off-roader.

ALso have a 1947 Willys Universal (restored) for bird hunting and an F350 7.3L 4X4 for towing and longer trips.

The new Landy clone looks awesome, but I wonder if we;ll see it in the USA in any numbers?
 
Posts: 872 | Location: S. E. Arizona | Registered: 01 February 2019Reply With Quote
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In February and March of this year, Land Rover came to Namibia with the new Defender for an advertising/photo opp run. They spent most of their time driving over the least challenging roads in the country. I think they were scared to break them.

https://media.landrover.com/ne...new-defender-namibia

Roll Eyes

Love the 100 series. Great machine.


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Posts: 22442 | Location: Occupying Little Minds Rent Free | Registered: 04 October 2012Reply With Quote
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I have a friend who loves LandRovers.

He has an old one, and almost always breaks down when he comes over to my house.

One evening he had dinner here, and left.

His car broke down just outside our house, he was too scared to ask me for a ride home, so he called for a cap.

Next day his wife told me! rotflmo


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Posts: 66765 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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The primary problem with the older diesel Landys is the mechanical fuel pump which can be quite expensive to work on and you better find a Landy wizard that knows them. But once the vehicle has been rewired from front to back, they are somewhat more reliable. The new Landys with an ECU however are simply beyond fixable. I wouldn't touch one under any circumstances. The Brits never were able to grasp the basic concepts of electricity and wiring.

Landys have one unique feature over all others - they automatically drain their fluids, sometimes overnight, sometimes over a few months, but generally when you really need transportation. They leak like an old woman. So you don't go anywhere without lots of backup juice, and a prayer book.

The only time a Landy is not leaking oil is when there is no oil in her. Unless you see a few drips on the ground, you better immediately check the oil level.


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Posts: 22442 | Location: Occupying Little Minds Rent Free | Registered: 04 October 2012Reply With Quote
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British made plus oil equals leak.

Dave
 
Posts: 2086 | Location: Seattle Washington, USA | Registered: 19 January 2004Reply With Quote
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I am worried that this will be too expensive.

The development period has been long (IE expensive), BMW engines will be expensive and by the nature of the vehicle, quantities will be low, which is not a recipe for a competitive purchase price.

Other than that, I see a lot of potential.
 
Posts: 458 | Location: South Africa | Registered: 28 April 2020Reply With Quote
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