You are absolutely correct most long range match shooters are using heavy bullets because they have a better ballistic coefficient. Match shooters are only putting holes in paper or ringing steel and do not care about how much energy the bullet has when it gets there.
The real world military snipers are the guys that are concerned with hitting at long range and the energy that the bullet has for long range hits. Every Sniper I know is using a 175 gr in the .308 win
The guys with the .300 mag are all shooting bullets of at least 190 gr and most are shooting 200 gr or more in the .300 win mag.
Bullets with higher sectional density and high BC also happen to deliver more energy at long range.
Sniper competition has far more similarities to hunting than match shooting. That is why I personally believe hunters will get more benefit from Sniper or long range tactical type training/competition than Bench Rest, F class or National Match training/competition.
With that said any rifle training is a good thing and it all helps to make us hunters better shots.

Jerry Jacques
Alaska Master Guide
www.Bristol-Bay.com

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Originally posted by Buglemintoday:

quote:

Originally posted by Alaskaguide:
Heavy bullets do better at long range as they retain their energy better.

I wouldn't think that the energy would matter in long distance shooting competition. I was under the impression people shot heavier (for caliber size) bullets due to the longer bullets (Higher Ballistic Coefficient).

The higher BC comes with the length of the bullet, to get length you need weight. The weight also helps with cutting through the wind. This is why the 338 Lapua is so good at long distances. the 250 Scenar has a BC of .0675... its one long pill! But retain speed and energy down range.

quote:

Originally posted by pheasantman:
I am planning on hunting marco polo and ibex next year. Have to be able to shoot up to 500 yards they tell me. I have a 300 win mag and 30-06. Looking at a sako A7 in 270 to purchase for the hunt. It really feels good. Would this be a wise choice or stick with one I have? What about scope choice?

I haven't shot Marco Polo, but shot an Ibex in Kazakhstan a few years ago.

If I was you I'd stick with the .300 win mag, get the best scope and rings/bases you can afford, use high quality, high BC bullets and the practice, practice and practice.

I shot my Ibex with a .300 win mag and I think it's a good calibre for this type of hunting. There are other choices, but given you already own the .300 win mag I wouldnt look any further. Better to spend time practicing than to be looking for a new rifle.

In my experience you don't need more than 10 or 12 times magnification, maybe 15 or 16 as max, but you quickly loose field of view at high magnification. Narrow field of view will make it more difficult to get your bearings after shooting and a follow up shot will be slower.

500 yards is a long way for a first round hit capability under field conditions, especially in the mountains where the wind can be all over the place.

I'd recommend reading Bryan Litz's book, "Accuracy and Precision For Long Range Shooting" - its sobering reading when one wishes to go long range hunting and it will help you clarify to what extent you need to develop your shooting, ranging and wind reading skills. And, what your equipment must be capable of.

If you 100% clear on what you and your kit is capable of it is easier to decline a shot and demand that you get closer or you wait for better conditions.

I wish you all the best with these two trips, very exciting, wish it was me.


All the best,

Christian

For what its worth I have two pals who are serious mountain hunters who go all over the world. One uses a 340 Weatherby and the other uses a 7 STW. Both use scopes with multi dot type reticles. One has a Leupold and the other a Zeiss. Both use Leica rangefinders. They both used 257 Weatherbys at one point but anchoring the animals on the spot necessitated boosting calibers.

The retained energy has an effect on wind drift at long range - With todays range finders and scopes trajectory is not a real problem but wind drift is the great equallizer at long range.

I would take the 300 Win Mag, and use a good 180 or 200gr bullet.

I would do a LOT of practice at 400/500 and 600 yards before the hunt.

I would take a look at the Leupold 3.5 to 10 Mark IV with the ballistic cam. I have one on my 300 Mag.

If the "gravity distance" to target is 600 yards, I set the BC on 6, then adjust for the wind, and hold, and squeeze...

If you do not know what "gravity distance" is, and you are going to spend the money on a Marco polo sheep hunt, you better learn...

I own both. Without a doubt the 300 Win Mag or another 300 Mag is a better choice. If you were keen on a 7mm Mag capable of pushing a heavy bullet (say 160gr plus) at a decent velocity I would not be critical of the choice either.

quote:

Originally posted by Alaskaguide:

Sniper competition has far more similarities to hunting than match shooting.....hunters will get more benefit from Sniper or long range tactical type training/competition than Bench Rest, F class or National Match training/competition.

+1

I took a 270WSM on my Marco Polo hunt topped with a Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x44 with Rapid Z800 shooting 140 grain bullets. My Marco polo ended up being fairly close, 250 yards but I did take my ibex at 579 yards on the same trip. I wouldn't hesitate to take this exact combination again.

I used H-S PHR in .338 LM on Marco Polo. It is very large sheep and I think .30 and higher would be nice choice. Smaller calibers require more shooting experience.

I see a lot f folks on this post have hunted Marco Polo

Can we do a poll as to the average distance you took your shot ....

I have taken one Marco Polo, plus Rocky Mountain Goat and caribou. All but the Marco Polo were at long ranges, 400+. After a lot of tuning and training, I shot my MP at 140 yards.

That being said, I would concentrate a lot more on accuracy than caliber. Beyond 400-500 yards, trajectory is crap with any caliber. Have a first class range finder (Zeiss). Know your trajectory absolutely. I used a M700 7mm Rem Mag, with every improvement I and my top grade gunsmith could apply. Could have used a M94 Win., but didn't know that until it happened.

quote:

Originally posted by londonhunter:
I see a lot f folks on this post have hunted Marco Polo

Can we do a poll as to the average distance you took your shot ....

According to local guides average distance in Kirgiz is about 250 yards, but if you want to hunt nice ram you have to be able to shoot at 500-600 yards

Good legs, binoculars and a rifle you shoot well is most important. Past 300 yards is a wet dream in any kind of wind. Try it a while at that distance in the wind.

We are in "long range shooting" forum, by the way :-)